Sued landlord for security deposit *2, won by default, now landlord appeals & I have to file a complaint?!

Submitted by Da-OG_karma2000 t3_ydctq5 in pittsburgh

Hi Pittsburgh, I have yet another unsavory landlord story and question for the community. Briefly, I sued the property management company for not returning my security deposit nor providing me with an itemized list of deductions. I moved out one year ago. The magistrate awarded me what I asked for (deposit * 2 plus costs) because the landlord did not show up at the hearing. He said then they had 30 days to appeal, and of course they did appeal, on day 30. I received a Defendants Notice of Appeal from Magisterial District Judge Judgment a few weeks ago on which is said Praecipe to Enter Rule to File a Complaint, saying to Dept of Court Records to enter a rule upon me to file a complaint in this appeal within 20 days after the date of service of this rule by the Dept of Court Records. I no longer live in the city so I called the court clerk to ask if I could mail it in. He kindly mailed me the forms, but now I'm extra confused. There are 2 forms on which he inked in blue checkmarks where I am supposed to enter my info. There's a Notice of Intention to Appear and also a Complaint, on which I am supposed to state the nature & amount of the claim. I'm so confused b/c I won the judgement -- why am I now needing to do this again? I'm now seeing at the bottom of this blank Complaint form, NOTICE: you are hereby notified to return "NOTICE OF INTENTION TO APPEAR" within 20 days from service or a default judgement or an award may be entered against you. Maybe he sent this one as an example, or by mistake? But the Notice of Intention to Appear looks like it is supposed to be for the Plaintiff -- why would I NOT want my ~$2000 judgment? Why would I have to reiterate that yes, I would like my money? If anyone can help I'd appreciate it. This has to be turned in by either Thursday or Friday. Thank you!

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syclopa t1_itreidu wrote

MDJ decisions may be appealed by either party. When a defendant appeals the decision to the Court of Common Pleas, it starts the entire process over again, just now at the Court of Common Pleas. That means that as the Plaintiff, you must file a complaint and have it served upon the defendant. That judgment that you won at the MDJ no longer exists.

Given the amounts likely involved, this will first go to mandatory arbitration. Either party can appeal the decision of the panel of arbitrators and request a trial.

Do you best when filling the necessary paperwork. Be specific in your complaint. Attach things like the lease, receipts, etc (other relevant evidence) to support the complaint. File the necessary paperwork with the court. Be timely in all of your filings.

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Da-OG_karma2000 OP t1_itrcy3o wrote

Update: apparently I have to file both the Complaint and the Notice of Intention to Appear, despite the fact that said Notice does not have a hearing date or time listed on it.

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Vast-Support-1466 t1_itrfapk wrote

1.) Landord waited until day 30 thinking you'd not be on the lookout for anything - respond within 20 days. Make sure the court has it, or it all goes poof.

2.) The complaint portion simply wants a restatement of what the issue is - ie., the judgement in your favor. Supplementally, include that documentation.

3.) The judgement still exists. The landlord contesting it and taking it form one court to another changes NOTHING.

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Da-OG_karma2000 OP t1_itrhjj3 wrote

I am flummoxed by this, but it appears that Cyclops is the winner of this match. The court clerk just responded with this:

Once the decision is appealed to the Court of Common Pleas it becomes de novo. Which means the case starts over again from the beginning. This is why you would need to file a new complaint.

One thing is certain, the law in Pennsylvania is tailored to the benefit of landlords and landlords only. This has to change. I don't live in PA anymore but someone has to fight for the lowly renters who do.

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hiperson134 t1_itsr0fe wrote

The fuck is the point of the first trial if the landlord can just say "nuh uh, do-over!" in response to the ruling?

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PolyDipsoManiac t1_itrlzc8 wrote

America is not really about making people’s lives better, just making rich people richer. Tenant protections are the former category, sadly

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Da-OG_karma2000 OP t1_itrr89q wrote

The tide is starting to change. Check out the NYTimes's recent article about tenants organizing in Kansas City. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/15/business/economy/rent-tenant-activism.html?unlocked_article_code=0RIXkjVxfESZM2f68xkSV4gHjfOe-PDOYm5yi1F9d4z27AEE-pfPokQQBGuyXo1-k2QRZP5JtsTOu0AflHVoRpWROagdcajys8Fq5l3TK02Vz6pf8lajg21rtTKWQPxW9zqULJ1R_TN0UGOQpjw_Q57Q1miLadyFI8JHC-didk20eJvNNVSlrZg5W3Uu77CQTMHJ9axSO1LqbppdSrqqLOknHkymXDb0GuUX9ujm_gTgJHYZ_QmAORLxfu4KPiVSfdCHHQhOxnjry1Bdhk9o9ZgdJzDzLD3DC6TPeFge2KIWl787eHGmQah5VPAmmFkb5VZTEkT-QPS6fdxhDvJSiTml20YE0r7i&smid=share-url

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Paranoidexboyfriend t1_itt6k8w wrote

I promise you that de novo appeals of magistrates decisions IS a tenant protection, and one of the best there is. This is one of the rare cases where a landlord is using it. The overwhelming majority of the time it is the tenant appealing de novo, which buys them months more time in the property on eviction cases.

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djehutimusic t1_itsjf6t wrote

Why are default judgements even eligible for appeal? If they want to contest it, they should show up the first time.

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hybrid_throwaway_ t1_itsxlat wrote

because pennsylvania doesnt care about poor people or renters. zero protections.

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Paranoidexboyfriend t1_itt6sm9 wrote

Poor renters are the most likely people to end up with default judgments, and the most likely to appeal on eviction cases. The appeals process is usually to the BENEFIT of the tenant. This case is just an exception to that general rule

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Beginning-Yak-911 t1_iu1xh1f wrote

Because you can't define that a magistrate ever served the paperwork or that anybody even exists. How did the magistrate enter a default judgment is a better question, I'm sure nobody was served.

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JAK3CAL t1_itszgif wrote

Hey, our wedding venue stole our money right when Covid was exploding and they weren’t allowed to host our wedding. We sued in small claims. Won. They appealed. We won again. Then the sheriff couldn’t find them. They will only make three attempts to contact. If they don’t answer the door, they walk away. End of story.

I spent exorbitant amounts of time, effort, and money. At the end of the day, I just spent my own money to dig a deeper financial hole, recouped nothing, and won a moral victory. Honestly… if they are starting to fight it might not be worth it. This states laws are absolutely whack in this regard.

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Da-OG_karma2000 OP t1_iturgie wrote

Thanks for sharing your story. I sort of have a card up my sleeve. I reached out to a Pittsburgh newspaper investigations editor when I first started dealing with this. Another tenant & friend of mine also got stiffed upon move-out. As did my downstairs neighbor. No returned deposit, no itemized list of deductions, nada. She let it go, didn't bother to fight after living there 7 years. The other guy did, and his story would make you cringe. It did sour me, but after researching this company & seeing pages and pages of court records with the same story, it charged me up. The paper was doing stories at the time about corrupt landlords & decrepit buildings, & I saw an opportunity. The editor called me the day after I emailed him and we talked for 30 minutes. He was interested, but then the bridge collapsed & their focus diverted. I am hopeful that he will pick it back up & include this company in their next article, as he said he wanted to, particularly since they were evicting tenants for whom their rent was paid by COVID protections for several months, likely illegally. For them to get away with this for more than a decade, seemingly unchecked, something is amiss, & 2 of my former building neighbors are on board with me. Honestly I am exhausted by it & wanted to say to hell with it last night as I was gathering paperwork. What's also motivating me is why my attorney at the time said to me. She was also a real estate agent w/30 years in the business. After reading my lease she said it was one of the 3 worst leases she had ever seen. That it contained terms already struck down by the Supreme Court, including a Confession of Judgement, which is only legal in commercial leases. It says that if I didn't pay rent that they could come into my apartment & confiscate anything they wanted, & that I forfeited my right to object. Lawyer told me this is in commercial leases for people who start a new business, buy a bunch of equipment to run it, and then fail. Landlord can recoup their money by taking said equipment. She recommended I report them to HUD. The reason I left in the first place was they retro billed me for rent -- my lease ended at the end of June, and unlike after my first year there, they did not send me a lease renewal letter. So I paid my July rent as usual. They cashed the check around the 8th. Then on the 27th or 28th I get their lease renewal letter. It says they are increasing my rent by $50/month, and the increase starts July 1st -- they mailed this the day before I got it, so 7/27. It states that I am delinquent by $50 and must pay it immediately before they will even extend my lease. Mind you -- I already paid my June rent in full, & they had cashed my check 3 weeks prior. So now I supposedly owe them $50 for June, plus an additional $50 for July, which is due in 4 or 5 days. This is when I hire the attorney who strongly advises me not to re-sign this lease. She tells me to pay my previously agreed upon rent and to decline to sign the new lease. They send me a second notice a week or so later, this time threatening legal action if I don't pay them the extra $50 for the previous month. I am a mature college graduate & professional with a fair amount legal knowledge. If they think they can pull one over on me, imagine what they are doing to their other tenants? The idea shook me. I cannot in good conscience let it go.

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JAK3CAL t1_itux4pa wrote

I understand, it’s exactly why I pursued mine. I knew, and everyone knew, they absolutely illegally violated their own contract and stole thousands.

My point being, after almost two years!! Worth of spending time in court, appeals, writing documents, paying fees, driving downtown, taking off from work… I spent a lot of my own money and time to dig a deeper hole and at the end of the day the state really makes no effort to recoup your money. Even the sheriffs clerk was like… oh honey, you have wasted your own time. This moneys never coming back to you. The sheriff knocks on their door and if they simply refuse to answer… they don’t collect. After three attempts they close the case. I’m just warning you, I really in hindsight think the moral victory probably wasn’t worth the stress and effort. We had newspaper interest too, it was a big story when this venue closed and left tons of couples out in the cold plus stole everyone’s money. Nothing happened other then a brief 6 o clock news coverage

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AnewENTity t1_itvhpfl wrote

This is not true you now have a judgement and need to pursue putting a lien on any property the business owns. There are ways to go about this but like you said you might be financially drained.

This is why lawsuits are for the rich

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JAK3CAL t1_itvhueu wrote

They filed bankruptcy and fled the state. The bank repossessed their property

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AnewENTity t1_itvhzh1 wrote

Ok you’re right then you’re fucked…

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JAK3CAL t1_itvmolc wrote

Yup. Well I won. Everyone knows I won. I feel good because I represented myself, read law, wrote documents, presented my case. But would I repeat or advise others to do the same, knowing that this could occur.

I would not 😊

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Da-OG_karma2000 OP t1_itvrrun wrote

Yes, the magistrate's office did mention something like that. "Execute on site" with the Sheriff. But records show that this company does pay -- but only after the court has garnished their bank account. I am willing to go the distance -- for now. If it gets too exhausting I may throw in the towel. Time will tell.

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Beginning-Yak-911 t1_iu1y9y9 wrote

Do you realize the whole episode only exists in your mind? It's just a perception of what you were going to pay for staying in that place, the only physical reality is that someone can file an eviction form at any time. You could have just talked the whole thing up to a little bit more a month than what you thought it was... There's no such thing as a security deposit and no such thing as getting it back either.

Everything your attorney told you was wrong, nobody can advise you to pay one mental number versus another mental. If it was me, I'd have quit paying 2 months before I was going to leave anyway. All they can do is bring eviction, only now the shoe is on the other foot. Now it's you bringing notice of appeal, and paying your rent into the Common Pleas Court as supersedeas bond to keep possession.

You're in this situation because of the backwards mindset of attorneys, who are always going the wrong way up a one-way street. They are illiterate, irrational, and antimathematic

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Beginning-Yak-911 t1_iu1xpj5 wrote

The states law is similar to every other state and it's for the protection of everybody. There's basically no such thing as "small claims court", unless you can reach something which is very specific and fixed in place. I don't know why you'd even assume there was anything for the sheriff to attach on your judgment.

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JAK3CAL t1_iu2650q wrote

Probably because I’m a regular citizen representing himself after his wedding venue stole literally thousands of dollars in blatant violation of their own terms of service. There is a system, small claims, set up to handle these sorts of occurrences. Having never dealt with any legal issues, why would one assume that the system this is established for is basically a fraud.

So ya, I learned a painful lesson asswipe. I’m trying to help others who might go down the same road. It’s better to just go rock them in face then try to follow conventional paths

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Beginning-Yak-911 t1_iu27pcy wrote

>why would one assume that the system this is established for is basically a fraud

Because it's Pennsylvania

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Da-OG_karma2000 OP t1_itrgoyp wrote

So now I have 2 responses that say different things. How can one court's judgment be rendered moot just by the loser filing an appeal? That does not make sense to me, although to be frank none of this makes much sense. I have contacted an attorney for advice, but in the meantime I will fill all of this out and will more than likely make the 90 minute drive to Pitts during my workday when I should and would rather be working, because I will not tolerate this harassment, which is what I believe this is. This property owner is notorious for this behavior. They do not return deposits as standard practice. They do not pay judgements until their bank account is garnished (I've done my research). One year on I could take or leave the money, but the principle is at stake. Thanks all for your responses.

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mrex0112 t1_itrz9t3 wrote

Start keeping track of your mileage, gas receipts, etc for these drives - not legal advice.

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Da-OG_karma2000 OP t1_itsfcg4 wrote

I had considered that, so excellent point. It's not labor intensive and certainly can't hurt.

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syclopa t1_itrhubw wrote

The short answer is, per PA MDJRCP 1007, all appeals of MDJ decisions are conducted de novo at the common pleas level. There are some special rules with evictions (Rule 1008), but that isn't the case here.

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big_thunder59 t1_itrpfd5 wrote

What company is it?

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Da-OG_karma2000 OP t1_itrqptt wrote

Reginella.

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Beginning-Yak-911 t1_iu1ym3a wrote

>How can one court's judgment be rendered moot just by the loser filing an appeal?

Because that's how it works in Pennsylvania and magistrates are not courts of record. You went to the wrong Court to begin with, and your case was too small to even bother about.

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JuanOhB t1_itsbvu0 wrote

I advise my clients that MDJ decisions on civil matters are basically worthless because it so easy and cheap to appeal. The company on the other side must hire an attorney but you do not. Do not let someone from the business try to act as a pro se litigant. That’s a violation of court rules and arguable unauthorized practice of law. I handle matters like this almost daily. Good luck!

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AnewENTity t1_itvha5j wrote

Yep I fucked up when I stopped paying the roofer who damaged my house after he wouldn’t provide insurance info and waited for him to sue me. I hired a lawyer for the MDJ and he wrote a brief showing every way the contract was invalid under PA remodel laws. The guy didn’t even want to read it

The magistrate acted like I was lying until I showed videos of it raining in my attic in to dozens of buckets. He at first didn’t even want to watch those.

I should have went to MDJ myself then sued him in common pleas with the lawyer

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Beginning-Yak-911 t1_iu1zpkv wrote

LOL you paid an attorney to bring a brief to the Magistrate Court??

It's the same price to file a complaint in the Common Pleas Court, as MDJ. You don't need an attorney, maybe a paralegal just to help draw the complaint up on a regular form.

The fact that any attorney would take your money and go to the magistrates office should tell you what attorneys are worth... At least he could have directed you to the right Court.

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PGH_LOVER t1_itsp4b3 wrote

Not a attorney and this is not legal advice. The magistrate level is designed to keep small issues from taking up the higher courts time. The losing party has every right to appeal the verdict. Just take what you wrote on your original complaint, type it up, print it out and attach it to the cover sheet provided.

They have appealed the judgment and now it goes to the higher court. This is just like when you hear cases going to the Supreme Court, as they are appealing a lower court ruling.

Obviously this will never make it that far, but is a completely normal course of events in LT litigation.

They most likely do not believe you will pursue the case and/or will hire a attorney to defend the appeal.

Just Google landlord tenant complaint.

There are tons of free templates that you can use.

The court understands that you are not an attorney and are at a disadvantage, but as long as you state your case without going on and on about things that do not matter, the judge will most likely listen and take into account your case

Be aware they have probably have an attorney who will be handling the case.

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Beginning-Yak-911 t1_iu1yvd9 wrote

>This is just like when you hear cases going to the Supreme Court, as they are appealing a lower court ruling.

Not even close, it's a "de novo appeal". Nobody appealed the ruling of a lower court and a magistrate is not a court anyway. It just resets the clock and starts everything from the beginning, and it can go the complete opposite way as well. Including default against the plaintiff for non prosecution.

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LurkersWillLurk t1_itv3b80 wrote

This is complicated enough that you should engage an attorney. You can also explore options for recouping attorney’s fees based on the frivolous appeal.

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Beginning-Yak-911 t1_iu1wq1b wrote

You totally wasted your time with this frivolous MDJ process. The best way to recover a security deposit is by just keeping the rent back until you leave.

This is an impossible task that you have created it's not even worth the effort, and they can just string it along because it's local for them and far away for you. Live and Learn

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