16 and 19 years old.

E: a more in depth article https://triblive.com/local/police-charge-2-teens-in-brighton-heights-church-shootings-no-motive-yet/

idk how you even fix this shit, just senseless bro

[removed]

Not banning abortions is a good start

They even shot a horse…. the total disregard for life is so sad. Sounds like all of the human victims are thankfully going to recover. Has anyone heard anything on the horse’s well-being?

I'm glad the police were able to find the two who did this.

However, if this is connection to some kind of an ongoing turf war I won't be surprised if this situation continues to escalate.

[removed]

abortion was legal 16 and 19 years ago.

Their names are in the article you illiterate racist donkey.

Crawl back to your swamp and leave us alone.

Other articles have a photograph of the 19 year old suspect.

I think the 16 year old's face will be kept private because they are a minor.

Also, don't be a dick.

When will the system stop oppressing the white man

Holy shit these guys are fucking idiots.

Committing a crime, getting into a vehicle registered to your address, then driving home.

Only to get back into the same vehicle a few hours later, while wearing the same clothing you committed the crime in, and driving towards the scene of the crime with the weapons in your possession.

I can’t imagine they were trying to get caught, but they did a great job of making sure they were.

"Being a dick" = stating facts you don't want to hear.

Of all city of Pittsburgh shootings/murders in which the race of the perp is known in, say, 2022, what were the racial breakdowns of the perps?

Sure. Just stop shooting people and no one will care.

You are a racist because you hold non-whites to lower standards.

When you do that, you tell the world that you believe non-whites to be inferior.

This is discriminatory and it makes you a racist.

[deleted]

My standard is read the fucking linked article before you say something stupid and you're the only one who failed that.

You're a dick for making this about media bias. Mass shootings and gang shootings are different types of stories. They get covered differently.

Their names are in the article, other news sources have a photo of the 19 year old. You're complaining about nothing.

>stating facts

But you were wrong

[deleted]

[deleted]

Take your dumbass shit to twitter.

[deleted]

Neigh.

You’re suggesting that these kids should just have been aborted? Can’t you see how that’s some fascist shit? You’re suggesting class-based eugenics, at the very least.

[deleted]

"Teen"...

Uh, 19 year olds are teenagers. You stop being a teen when you turn 20.

when you shoot up a funeral you lose you 'minor' status.

The culture is broken and no one seems to admit it or don't care to fix it.

The law matters. It's also about protecting the privacy of their family.

I understand your outrage that situations like this are happening in the city but don't let it tempt you into tearing down the framework for a fair and lawful society so you can get a quick fix.

Great work by the police. They quickly found surveillance footage, reviewed it, and identified where these two were staying. Catching them with the weapons means they have a strong case against them and it won't end up in an acquittal like the BBQ shooting a few years ago.

This case is a good example to point to when defund extremists start talking about how the police don't do anything.

[deleted]

Wait….I thought being pro life was fascist. Brain hert.

>Officers caught up with the car, which was stuck in construction traffic, and conducted a traffic stop

This might be one of the most Pittsburgh things I've ever read

Just a couple of yutes

Well, senseless murder isn’t a trait often paired with intelligence. So….

Preach! We’re tired!!!

> The law matters.

What law exactly? There is no law that prevents a newspaper from reporting a minors identity.

E: I challenge all the uninformed downvoters to cite the law that prevents reporting on a minor. It does not exist.

You’re not wrong. It’s semantics really because you’re also an “adult” at 18.

About the numbers? I pulled the stats. They are astounding!

I'm almost certain you're wrong about that lol

edit

He's right. I finally looked into it a few days later.

There is no law that prohibits the news from naming or using photos of minors suspected of crime.

> defund extremists

Really disrespectful way to characterize folks who don't think that the largest expenditure to a city's entire operating budget should go towards police, lol.

When you overfund one particular public service for so many decades, to the detriment of the rest of our services, I suppose it gets normalized. Then y'all just call us extremists for wanting to get back to normal.

>They quickly found surveillance footage, reviewed it, and identified where these two were staying.

You don't need a metric shit ton of money to do this. This is an example of basic, but competent, police work. These 2 kids weren't exactly hard to find..

I don't think your position is an extreme position. Happy to have the conversation about increasing funding for other public services.

However, I do consider it an extreme position to abolish the police and prisons, which is exactly what certain groups advocate for.

Legally you're an adult. By definition you are still a teenager...

They all use fascism when they think it will help them gain more power.

Who are you referring to when you say “they”?

And still an adult.

I don't know, I could be wrong but I've noticed the rhetoric has significantly changed in the past 2 years to rethinking how much we fund those systems and how they are trained and vetted, rather than abolishing them completely.

I’m not. Minors don’t have a legal right to privacy.

Whoever is in power or who wants power. Political parties, billionaires, international organizations like NATO.

Hope they hang these pieces of garbage by their nuts.

Nah, more like taking decisive action to mitigate/end inequality so people don't feel the need to join a gang.

Which culture? Do you think black culture is a monolith and promotes the use of violence? That it's ingrained into their "culture?" Come on, man.

Holy shit, the cops did their job once despite a very poor case closure rate and you're all "see, the defund people are wrong." The defund people aren't even against cop doing normal cop shit. They want the finite resources we have to be spread to actual useful stuff for the stuff cops are asked to do that isn't cop shit, like helping the homeless and having mental health interventions not be lead by roided up jackboots itching to kill.

Just say "dindu" like you want to and fuck off.

And still a teenager, which is the word used to describe a nineteen year old that the original commenter is caling "cringe."

Whenever “teen” is used in a headline without the race specified regarding something abhorrent It usually means only one thing. I think that’s what he was getting at,

It usually means that they are a teenager. Because that's what the word means and it's used quite appropriately to refer to a sixteen and nineteen year old.

When I first heard about it, I thought it might have had to do with potential witnesses to the first shooting. The funeral was a victim from the shooting a week ago that left 3 dead and one injured. They could probably tie the kids to that shooting too.

No one mentioned race but I see where you are coming from. I think youth culture in general is getting more violent. Even in my almost all white upper middle class high school everyone wanted to be from a ghetto and hold guns and sell drugs.

Maybe in Pittsburgh, but meanwhile in Philadelphia and many other cities, no cash bail is still very much a thing. And look at the new law passed in Illinois. The SAFE-T Act there is going to be a disaster. So there’s no reason for police to risk their lives to arrest someone that is going to be back out on the street in an hour. And here’s a hint: Those cities have one political party in common.

The proper word is authoritarian but people like to use fascist because of it's link to the nazis

I bet you are a blast at parties

Case study of one - Pigeon Bagel in Squirrel Hill had a "defund the police" sign up last year. I asked "what does that mean? like move resources around?" Woman working at Pigeons' response was "no, it means abolish the police."

So at least some of the defund people mean completely defund and abolish the police.

The church and parishioners involved in this were part of Urban Impact, an organization which seeks to neutralize the inequities of the North Side. How ironic….

> Pigeon Bagel in Squirrel Hill had a "defund the police" sign up

So that means if they were robbed, they wouldn't call the cops, right?

Have a juvenile detention center that’s open sure helps a lot one that focuses on rehabilitation but we have no detention center and just release kids on ankle monitors back into the same environment they are committing crimes in hopefully that will be changed next year also after school programs gyms places for these people to go are huge when it comes to deterring them from crime.

Yeah. I worked in a virtually-all-white school last year, and a fourth-grader wrote, "I will kill you all" on a bathroom wall.

The girls' bathroom.

I don't know what this world is coming to.

I also noticed this super interesting and ironic

Definitely agree with you

Wait wut? The article refers to an "open-air drug market" at Allegheny Commons, but when I look at the city's website, its description reads

>Allegheny Commons has anchored the North Side for over 150 years. The public commons predate the City of Pittsburgh’s annexation of Allegheny City. This treasured Victorian gem is our oldest park and recalls the grandeur of Central Park.

The gang culture is for sure glorified and emulated. It isn’t black or white or brown or yellow. There’s a real issue with fatherless homes, boys trying to be men, and finding acceptance in glorying violence and sensational behavior. The first reaction of many folks these days when harm is encountered is to get a TikTok video rather than aid ones fellow man.

This isn’t a race problem, it doesn’t have boundaries. Our culture is regressing and we brought it upon ourselves.

I have absolutely seen ACAB and abolish police as strong messages.

Nine….”teen”?

We have had several generations of young men that have been raised by parents that either don't care or with the view that their children can do no wrong.

Willlburrrr!!!!

They are referring to the section 8 housing is shares the name. People sit and sell drugs in full view of the police. It was always bad but has gotten much worse.

Lmao spot on. We was stuck on 28 construction the other day for so long

I mean they shots up a funeral so pretty sure their mind doesn’t work like a normal persons ….

[deleted]

Yes. They should have been.

Can identify the car as black but not the criminals. Funny how that works.

[removed]

I've had my own issues with 51 construction lately so I feel your pain

My favorite is when outspoken communists call someone a fascist as if they’re a lesser piece of shit.

The people they just put bullets in probably have an opinion on that

It’s definitely an open air drug market. Cops don’t necessarily care because when they do attempt the serve the public - the perps are normally out of custody before the cop can file any paperwork.

It's never that simple, there is always see other kind of personal insult. The absolute hate coming from the left is sickening.

I don’t think you’re wrong. I’m sure both sides feel this way. I think that real interpersonal conversations reflect a much more positive relationship between people of differing views. This keyboard shit let’s people spew vitriol with zero consequences.

Oh no, as soon as they are affected they call the police and then bitch to the news that the police don't care about them

Minors are routinely not identified in news reports

Please reread this and add some commas and periods and edit a word or two because it makes zero sense

Seen it where? In graffiti on a wall? Defunding the police was a poorly thought-out slogan from the jump, and most folks realized it. The fact is, despite what Republicans would have you think, police forces have NOT been “defunded”, in fact many have had funding increased. There were some attempts early on in some cities, but it didn’t last long.

I can see how it’s viewed as an extreme position, though I strongly agree with the previous poster that the truth is most of many urban budgets goes to law enforcement, sometimes at the detriment of other serious needs. “Defund the police “, unfortunately, was thrown out there without sufficient thought behind it, and even though it hasn’t happened, Republicans have jumped on it and made liberals, Democrats, etc., look like idiots who don’t care about crime. Of course, that isn’t true, and the police have NOT been “defunded.”

[deleted]

What are you trying to accomplish with this comment?

“They should have been aborted”

Fucking Reddit moment right here. You realize abortions were legal when they were born?

Good parenting, to start.

So do you believe that Pittsburgh should have less police? Seriously, I’m genuinely curious what your issue with our police budget is.

The vast majority of the city’s police budget goes to salaries. I’m curious what you would cut it by or what your logic is about why it’s overfunded.

> Seen it where?

Literally all over this very website. There is no shortage of people claiming that cops are an arm of an unjust system with a monopoly in violence that must be dismantled. I see it every day. I distinctly remember when posts would reach the front page of Reddit that claimed “yes, we actually do support defunding police, literally.”

Since the midterms are coming up, I’ve seen a wave of both “hey, we support the police!” posts on Reddit as well as tons of “pro public safety” advertisements in my state television ads to try to turn the tide. Which has pissed off a lot of my progressive friends at my school (CMU).

So what does “defund the police” in Pittsburgh mean to you?

I guess I should have qualified. My point is that defunding the police has not actually occurred, number one, and if anything police forces have had increased funding. Rightwing Republicans have jumped all over this “message” and used it forcefully against Democrats, portraying us as soft on crime, etc. I think the original crux of the slogan was intentionally misunderstood, but that’s what happens when people just spew words without thinking.

That's not because of a law though. Legally a news report can print a minors name all they want.

Are you familiar with what a dog whistle is in regards to politics (not an actual, physical, dog whistle, though that's where the term comes from)?

I bet your parties consist of burning crosses.

Unfortunately, the system is set up that you are required to use the police to access your insurance. Even if they didn't want the cops to come and blast someone away over property, they still need a police report to be made whole.

Did you just mansplain dog whistle? Lol

Not sure what you're saying. They're only one organization with limited resources. Are you criticizing them for not ending inequality with a system that basically demands inequality to function?

It’s pretty clear cut and dry.

What are YOU trying to accomplish with your comment?

Not even sure how you read that I was criticizing them. The irony of it is that Urban Impact is an organization who seeks to end inequality by providing resources to the North Side as well as help provide realistic approaches to careers for all the teens. How do I know? Because I volunteer for it.

In one comment you call communists pieces of shit, in the next you talk about unnecessary vitriol in online forums 🤷‍♂️

Correct, unnecessary vitriol is gross.

Communists aren’t given that social grace.

I figured I triggered your brittle Commie bones!!

The defund movement, by and large, is about shifting some money and resources to other organizations that are better equipped to deal with the mixed roles cops are expected to have. Leaving cops to do normal cop shit like dealing with violent crime and such. It came from people co-opting the "abolish the police" movement, which I personally prefer since "defund" thinks cops can be reformed, and "abolish" thinks the current system of policing is beyond reform and we need to eliminate police altogether and structure a better means to address the problems cops have historically had in their jurisdiction.

No. Maybe learn what mansplaining is too while you're at it. It doesn't mean "any time a man explains things."

Lots of people responding to me today in bad faith. You got caught up in it I guess. Lots of these turds in this sub would have meant it as "oh, a group that is trying to end inequality has failed, and become a victim of said inequality. Curious." I mean, we've got people who think abortion is a valid way to reduce this stuff, but not taking other measures too. Sure, abortion access is one tool in the box, but a lot of people use it as a way to say inner city poor people (stand in for black folks) should just not have kids, instead of actual measures to make sure these folks can have families and not be poor. They hate poor people and black people.

>Responding to me in bad faith.

.

>They hate poor people and black people.

Lol, lmao even.

That's a main stream walk back by Dems. Because defund and abolish the police poll exceedingly poorly.

Defund the police originally meant exactly what it says. Now it's just watered down

>Portraying us as soft on crime.

West coast cities do that effectively with no outside messaging.

I’ll have the last laugh when capitalism consumes itself 🤷‍♂️

You’re still evil if you’re a communist LMFAO.

Ever listen to The Squad? Ilhan Omar said that the Minneapolis Police should be dismantled.

https://www.policemag.com/620440/republican-video-features-democrat-leaders-supporting-the-defund-the-police-move

Very enlightened point of view you seem to have.

This guy's comment history really something else. What a horrible human being

In the latest data available, there was definitely a surge in crime during 2020, especially in murders and assaults. The murder rate went up nearly 30% across the country. More than 75% involved guns, and murders and assaults increased by varying percentages in urban, suburban, and rural areas as well. According to the Brennan Institute for Justice, those rates “rose roughly equally in cities run by Democrats and cities run by Republicans,” and “so-called red states actually saw some of the highest rates of all.” I’ve seen similar data reported from various sources (FBI, CDC, etc.). You can search all kinds of data sources for yourself, but this idea being pushed that it’s only liberal, Democratic states/cities experiencing a surge is plain propaganda.

I firmly believe the rise is worse in Liberal cities, not necessarily of violent crime, but of property crime and quality of life crime. The downside is I can't prove it at all and have to go off of what I know from living in a very liberal city (Seattle.) People quit reporting crime to the cops, there was no point. You'd get shit stolen and you just wouldn't bother filing a report because they will never get your stuff back, and you'll be waiting hours just on the hope somebody shows up. I know tons of people who were victimized via crime and we all went through the same thing with not reporting it.

That this isn't a convincing argument and purely anecdotal I am aware, but sadly I think there is something to it. No idea how you rectify that beyond me saying "just trust me bro" which again, I get is not convincing.

[removed]

You can clearly understand what is being said nothing more needed to be said

Yes, someone like me would be a "horrible human being" to a right wing stupid fucking turd like you.

Well you sure are a hateful one, have a better one buddy

> This isn’t a race problem, it doesn’t have boundaries. Our culture is regressing and we brought it upon ourselves.

Obviously we want to tread carefully, any discussions of race are sensitive and often bring the online trolls and racists out of the woodwork. Certainly don't want this to become a game of finger-pointing and "blaming" certain groups. At the same time, at what point are we just burying our heads in the sand by insisting on colorblindness?

If this was some degradation of American culture generally you would expect the problem to be evenly distributed, but that's just not the case. There are absolutely massive racial disparities at play here.

Allegheny County Department of Human Service - Homicides in Allegheny County and the City of Pittsburgh, 2016 through 2021 > Black residents were much more likely to be victims of homicide than White residents. While Black residents comprise only 13% of the County population, they accounted for 77% of homicide victims in the County from 2016 through 2021. During those years, Black Allegheny County residents experienced an average homicide victimization rate that was 21 times greater than the rate for White residents. > >Similarly, in the City of Pittsburgh, 23% of the population is Black and 80% of all homicide victims were Black. The homicide victimization rate of Black Pittsburgh residents was 12 times greater than that of White residents.

I can’t speak to the situation in Seattle because I’m not from there. In fact, I’ve never had the pleasure of visiting your beautiful city. I have, however, done some research, and it seems that certain sections of your city do have higher than average crime, especially property crime, so you’re sharing your own experience, and that’s certainly valid. But then you go off…and for some reason, even though I presented you with information that says otherwise, you’re just absolutely certain that “liberal cities” have worse crime. By your own admission, you have no proof, nor does it seem as if you’ve really spent any time trying to gather data on this topic. Instead, again by your own admission, it’s just a feeling you have. It’s a feeling you have, and you think there’s “something to it.” This type of confirmation bias is exactly what permits untruths to take hold and cause damage. I hope you’ll think about it a little, and try to figure out why you’re satisfied with coming to conclusions in this manner.

Like I said, i know it's not a compelling argument. But the problem with gathering any information on it is crime isn't being reported. It's common knowledge that it isn't, but obviously there's no data to support it, because it's not being reported.

If there was any way to see actual numbers instead of just reported crimes I'd love to, but again it's not possible to have numbers on things not reported. I don't expect anyone to be convinced by that as an argument though.