Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

FunLife64 t1_jdmuum0 wrote

Reply to comment by fishythepete in Providence Place Mall in Flux — Another Store Closing, New Restaurant Coming, and More Changes by L0v3_1s_War

It’s not uncommon for cities/states to come to agreements on things that bring economic development. The trade off is obviously either economic impact (I guess a mall bringing people into the city) or solid jobs (a mall has some decent jobs but not exactly a lot of great jobs).

The mall has done a lot for PVD - I’m surprised whenever I’m there how busy it is. Now obviously places like Gap closing has little to do with Prov Place, just that Gap is struggling.

That being said, it always cracks me up how people go after the universities - without them PVD wouldn’t have a lot going for it. They have so many good jobs and bring so much economic impact (ie JWU culinary).

31

kbd77 t1_jdmwhxx wrote

I’d argue it isn’t “economic development” if the mall is self-contained and only houses big chains. If anything, that’s taking away business from the smaller shops downtown. Nothing has been built around the mall in the almost 30 years it’s been open. That whole area surrounding the train station is rife for development, but the last buildings to be built went up 15 years ago – 2 office buildings (GTECH and Blue Cross) and 3 residential towers (2 at Waterplace, the other adjacent to the Omni).

If the mall is going to continue taking up valuable real estate and only providing a place for non-residents to easily access right off the highway, park their cars in the garage, and then go right back home without setting foot outside in the city, what’s the point of giving them tax breaks?

30

FunLife64 t1_jdmzw3u wrote

The lack of chains (particularly restaurants) in PVD is very diff than most cities. Would one build a mall like this in 2023? No. But it does bring people and activity to PVD - you can complain about those people but many of them are going to restaurants outside of the mall, etc. Also, walk down Westminster after 5-6 pm and none of those stores are even open. There’s been chatter about converting parts of the mall into residences, for example, which I think is interesting.

The land around the mall is developed. The Jewelry District/195 plots have been sitting vacant for sale for years.

Yet there’s still people complaining about those lots getting developed. One company was trying to build their HQ in one plot by the Shell station/Trader Joes - right off of interstate exits. And residents complained it would bring too much traffic. Yes, let’s run businesses out of PVD because of…traffic.

I wouldn’t say “growth mindset” is Providence’s forte. 🙃

22

Vo_Mimbre t1_jdmy256 wrote

How much would the lack of real estate tax be offset by sales tax on store purchases?

I have no idea what revenue the place generates, but am curious if the City calculates things like that.

Also glad to see more experiences coming like Level 99. Fashion and shopping alone can’t keep Malls going like they used to in the 80s/90s.

10

kbd77 t1_jdmzjah wrote

A valid question, and I have no idea what the answer is. But that sales tax goes to the state, not the city, right? So it’s not like we directly benefit from it (unless I’m totally off-base there).

Agree about the mall pivoting to offer more “experiences” – the new Night Shift thing should be cool. Would love to see more food hall-style things, arcades, or event spaces, as opposed to a litany of redundant retailers.

6

Vo_Mimbre t1_jdn4eo9 wrote

Great point about state tax vs city. Hadn’t thought of that. Love the idea of the Mall returning to a place to just “be” and to shop.

2

UnicornShitShoveler t1_jdoj6qm wrote

Make a section of the mall into little store fronts. Allow people to try and establish and grow a small business. Make a section for food, apparel, tech, hobbies whatever. Allow them access to a POS system, shelving, equipment etc. Have a website community where the employees of these establishments can seamlessly move to a new vendor to keep it fresh and learn a new business or gather new clients. I feel like we need some fresh ideas for commerce in this state.

3

kickstand t1_jdoycnn wrote

The mall arguably killed downtown shopping, though. And makes it much harder for downtown to revive, like other downtowns are.

4

FunLife64 t1_jdozduo wrote

I mean the mall was part of PVDs downtown re-emerging. It’s not like downtown today is some run down ghost town. Brick n mortar “Shopping” in general is dying, mall or not. It’s not like Worcester and Hartford have Crate & Barrel and Anthropologie downtown cause they don’t have a mall. The mall still brings lots of people to downtown PVD.

8

Proof-Variation7005 t1_jdss0s1 wrote

I think this take requires pretending that downtown retail on storefronts is a thriving modern concept and not some shit that died everywhere

3