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fishythepete t1_jdmnuru wrote

All I got out of this article is that the mall currently pays $500,000 / year in taxes when their bill should be $25,000,000. Makes the PILOT payments universities make look generous in comparison.

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FunLife64 t1_jdmuum0 wrote

It’s not uncommon for cities/states to come to agreements on things that bring economic development. The trade off is obviously either economic impact (I guess a mall bringing people into the city) or solid jobs (a mall has some decent jobs but not exactly a lot of great jobs).

The mall has done a lot for PVD - I’m surprised whenever I’m there how busy it is. Now obviously places like Gap closing has little to do with Prov Place, just that Gap is struggling.

That being said, it always cracks me up how people go after the universities - without them PVD wouldn’t have a lot going for it. They have so many good jobs and bring so much economic impact (ie JWU culinary).

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kbd77 t1_jdmwhxx wrote

I’d argue it isn’t “economic development” if the mall is self-contained and only houses big chains. If anything, that’s taking away business from the smaller shops downtown. Nothing has been built around the mall in the almost 30 years it’s been open. That whole area surrounding the train station is rife for development, but the last buildings to be built went up 15 years ago – 2 office buildings (GTECH and Blue Cross) and 3 residential towers (2 at Waterplace, the other adjacent to the Omni).

If the mall is going to continue taking up valuable real estate and only providing a place for non-residents to easily access right off the highway, park their cars in the garage, and then go right back home without setting foot outside in the city, what’s the point of giving them tax breaks?

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FunLife64 t1_jdmzw3u wrote

The lack of chains (particularly restaurants) in PVD is very diff than most cities. Would one build a mall like this in 2023? No. But it does bring people and activity to PVD - you can complain about those people but many of them are going to restaurants outside of the mall, etc. Also, walk down Westminster after 5-6 pm and none of those stores are even open. There’s been chatter about converting parts of the mall into residences, for example, which I think is interesting.

The land around the mall is developed. The Jewelry District/195 plots have been sitting vacant for sale for years.

Yet there’s still people complaining about those lots getting developed. One company was trying to build their HQ in one plot by the Shell station/Trader Joes - right off of interstate exits. And residents complained it would bring too much traffic. Yes, let’s run businesses out of PVD because of…traffic.

I wouldn’t say “growth mindset” is Providence’s forte. 🙃

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Vo_Mimbre t1_jdmy256 wrote

How much would the lack of real estate tax be offset by sales tax on store purchases?

I have no idea what revenue the place generates, but am curious if the City calculates things like that.

Also glad to see more experiences coming like Level 99. Fashion and shopping alone can’t keep Malls going like they used to in the 80s/90s.

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kbd77 t1_jdmzjah wrote

A valid question, and I have no idea what the answer is. But that sales tax goes to the state, not the city, right? So it’s not like we directly benefit from it (unless I’m totally off-base there).

Agree about the mall pivoting to offer more “experiences” – the new Night Shift thing should be cool. Would love to see more food hall-style things, arcades, or event spaces, as opposed to a litany of redundant retailers.

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Vo_Mimbre t1_jdn4eo9 wrote

Great point about state tax vs city. Hadn’t thought of that. Love the idea of the Mall returning to a place to just “be” and to shop.

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UnicornShitShoveler t1_jdoj6qm wrote

Make a section of the mall into little store fronts. Allow people to try and establish and grow a small business. Make a section for food, apparel, tech, hobbies whatever. Allow them access to a POS system, shelving, equipment etc. Have a website community where the employees of these establishments can seamlessly move to a new vendor to keep it fresh and learn a new business or gather new clients. I feel like we need some fresh ideas for commerce in this state.

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kickstand t1_jdoycnn wrote

The mall arguably killed downtown shopping, though. And makes it much harder for downtown to revive, like other downtowns are.

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FunLife64 t1_jdozduo wrote

I mean the mall was part of PVDs downtown re-emerging. It’s not like downtown today is some run down ghost town. Brick n mortar “Shopping” in general is dying, mall or not. It’s not like Worcester and Hartford have Crate & Barrel and Anthropologie downtown cause they don’t have a mall. The mall still brings lots of people to downtown PVD.

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Proof-Variation7005 t1_jdss0s1 wrote

I think this take requires pretending that downtown retail on storefronts is a thriving modern concept and not some shit that died everywhere

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Proof-Variation7005 t1_jdspuh2 wrote

The mall provides a public service. Brown University doesn’t have a single location where you can build you own bear.

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mhb t1_jdxov3g wrote

They had one place, but the bear was huge, blue and had a light for a head.

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Sarcofaygo t1_jdngvpb wrote

>All I got out of this article is that the mall currently pays $500,000 / year in taxes when their bill should be $25,000,000.

If that was their bill the mall would close down and suddenly the yearly payment would be $0/year in taxes

Now if you had said $1,000,000 or so, that's a more reasonable proposition

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fishythepete t1_jdnkf2g wrote

>If that was their bill the mall would close down and suddenly the yearly payment would be $0/year in taxes

  1. That’s not how property taxes work

  2. If having to pay taxes at the same rate as every other business makes the mall non-viable, maybe it’s time for a viable business to take its place.

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Proof-Variation7005 t1_jdss5hn wrote

That mall is paying a million now. GoLocal sucks. The latest proposal is shifting the bill to around 4.5 million. Not sure where it stands

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Jimmytowne t1_jdoban5 wrote

Bring back fire and ice!

A lot of mega malls have turned into experience destinations. Aquariums, airsoft, Instagram scenery, spas, etc. providence place needs to adapt. Johnson and Wales should buy some space and create a cooking class experience restaurant

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mlabella5 t1_je586jg wrote

They used to have one in the arcade back in the day.. it was awesome.. miss that place

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austin3i62 t1_jdqvgbq wrote

Why would JWU rent space when they can get free real estate anywhere else from this city.

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Jimmytowne t1_jdqw4cq wrote

Because whoever moves into that space needs to make a profit and with JWU’s Free labor through culinary and business students, they are a viable tenant

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FunLife64 t1_jdrbcbv wrote

Um you realize they don’t just point at land and poof a building appears? They have to buy land, pay to develop it, build, maintain, etc.

JWU’s economic impact is quite strong. They are tax exempt as a university just as any university across the country is along with all churches, non-profits, etc.

I love when people villainize Rhode Island’s schools though.

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austin3i62 t1_jdsairi wrote

What's the tuition and enrollment for JWU? Cry me a river.

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FunLife64 t1_jdseuci wrote

JWU is significantly cheaper than PC, Bryant, etc.

So yeah, cry me a river that you chose to b*itch about the school that is offering an affordable education for Rhode Islanders.

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Weshallpropser t1_jdn68ai wrote

Fogo de Chão is so good, excited to see that empty spot put to use.

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howsyourlife t1_jdnezlk wrote

Surprised the owners rejected the idea of converting into condos or apts a la The Arcade, especially given how successful the 903 and 225 promenade/ Halstead nearby have been.

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fishythepete t1_jdnon1p wrote

Blockbuster passed up a chance to buy Netflix. A lot of commercial real estate owners probably think now that COVID is “over”things are going to go back to “normal.” I may not have a crystal ball, but I think the odds of things ever going back to people working in downtown offices five days a week are over for good.

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FunLife64 t1_jdram83 wrote

There was an article I think in NY Times about transitioning commercial to residential and how it’s just a disaster.

The Arcade is an interesting example - do people actually live in those? I’ve seen them for sale but they are ridiculously tiny. And not a great example of keeping a building afloat haha

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bluehat9 t1_jdw0okw wrote

….you mean compared to when it was totally vacant? Yes, people live there. All of the micro lifts upstairs are condos.

What do you mean not a great example of keeping a building afloat?

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FunLife64 t1_jdwr9ge wrote

Yeah that’s why I said I’ve seen them for sale….but given the size sometimes those types of places aren’t primary residences.

I’ve never seen a soul when I go in the arcade. Obviously those condos aren’t housing many people just given their size - guessing most are solo occupied. Hence not a good example of residences contributing to pedestrian traffic!

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bluehat9 t1_jdwvmz6 wrote

48 lofts at 1 person per loft is 48 people living in downtown who probably wouldn’t be there if not for the small size and relative affordability. Paolinos “studley” building is 65 micro units and the one next to “the dorrance” is also micro lofts.

I see people coming and going from the arcade pretty often when im walking by. You can enter and exit from either side

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nice-noodles t1_jdno6mr wrote

What are the issues of crime and safety the article alluded to?

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iandavid t1_jdobmyc wrote

That’s just GoLocal beating their usual copaganda drum.

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Distinct-Ad5751 t1_jdny0re wrote

The group fights, stabbings, robberies, suicides, accidental deadly falls down the escalators, SA in the garage …

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spokchewy t1_jdqmzsp wrote

Anyone remember that guy who would drive around Providence in the mid to late 90s, basically talk shit, film it, and it somehow wound up on local TV?

I remember him driving by the mall as it was being constructed or just after it was complete, saying “it would be a homeless shelter one day”.

I don’t completely doubt it; maybe he was really onto something.

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Sopressata t1_jdrt5y8 wrote

Level 99 is so fun!! It would be a great addition to providence

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Ok-Carpet-2422 t1_jdn74gl wrote

Once Zara and Apple device to leave the mall is done. Those 2 stores are keeping it afloat. Plus there’s a ton of punks that roam around. Better off going to Garden City.

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Ok-Carpet-2422 t1_jdn76gj wrote

Covert it to a casino

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howsyourlife t1_jdndrz3 wrote

Not a bad idea actually.

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Ok-Carpet-2422 t1_jdne653 wrote

Keep the top floor as a mall lower and mid as a casino.

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howsyourlife t1_jdneg56 wrote

Other way around would probably be better for security and air quality reasons, but yeah a casino would actually help keep the retail b&m places afloat.

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Ok-Carpet-2422 t1_jdnelev wrote

For sure!! Plus you have the train station right there hotel is connected. It’s a no brainer.

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