Comments
I_Enjoy_Beer t1_ixhpu2o wrote
Turns out, some things we developed 100 years ago were, in fact, good but we took a wrong turn somewhere along the way. Probably right about the time WW2 was over and the U.S. had an abundance of labor, resources, and manufacturing capacity when the rest of the developed world was in shambles. "You, too, can have your own car!" "You, too, can own your own half-acre 10 miles away from the office!" Unsurprisingly, that kind of inefficiency doesn't work well outside of peak economic conditions, and the "old" ways are being rediscovered.
dalhectar t1_ixht900 wrote
People forget the history of the streetcar in Richmond and how it folded in 1904 after anti-segregation protests.
It was a early flashpoint in the Jim Crowization of the state.
goodsam2 t1_ixk28i6 wrote
Yeah I think it's underrated that white flight happened because racists didn't want to live next to another race...
tmos540 t1_ixjp7yw wrote
Reject modernity, embrace tradition.
AdvancingMind1 t1_ixtqguu wrote
The car era of urban/suburban development has been a dark time for many places
[deleted] t1_ixilirl wrote
[removed]
bkemp1984Part2 t1_ixi7lut wrote
I was just coming here to inquire why it's so surprising. It's free, doesn't stop every 50 feet, has priority at intersections, and travels along the main artery of the "city proper". I guess it's surprising in the sense Richmond did something right, and in some ways Broad St is a bit embarrassing now with the lengths we went to preserve parking, but the latter wouldn't really affect ridership and it's a fundamentally very sound idea.
bruxalle t1_ixhha1q wrote
Amen.
Asterion7 t1_ixhon10 wrote
Preach my brother/sister in infrastructure.
knife_hits t1_ixk1tr1 wrote
It's like when weirdos say shit like "the United States Postal Service is losing $XX million a year!" Like, no, it's not "losing" anything, it's a public service and it COSTS MONEY TO RUN IT. Not everything needs to exist to turn a profit, god damn
goodsam2 t1_ixk3a44 wrote
Well actually the post office was a service that cost a lot of money. (They actually had arguments because in rural areas the postal service only delivered to town and when people came into town they would buy something at the store next door but it would go to urban houses because it was far easier, this was a huge cost and a significant portion of the federal budget)
Anyway then people started sending a lot more mail back and forth. The post office then generates a profit, they decide they want to semi-break off from the government. Now less letters to and from people are falling and they are looking at downsizing in real ways. Since they made a profit they increased pay and pensions and such and at some point it's just another normal government position which is why the Republicans asked to prepay their pension because the post office finances look to be decreasing profitability. Which pushes them to look insolvent sooner but also makes the transition easier to when they go back as a full government agency.
But back to the topic, I mean think about all the land used for parking or driving that could be sold. I mean I heard there was a plan for 64 to be closed and I was just trying to quantify how much that would be worth. I mean nobody bats an eye when we increase parking in land that would otherwise sell for hundreds of thousands and then generate tax revenue.
OlGreggMare t1_ixv700r wrote
How much profit does the Dept of Defense make? I've been to exercises of just single brigade vs regiment that likely burned more fuel in a month than the entire USPS does in a year
goodsam2 t1_ixvdpom wrote
But the USPS was profitable and asked to be partially spun off is the difference maker here. The USPS was profitable and wanted to pay workers more but was stuck to federal government salaries but they wanted to spin off. Now the situation has changed and they need to be a government service at some point soon enough. That or they operate a bank which I think is personally a better option.
[deleted] t1_ixi9cyw wrote
[deleted]
guptaxpn t1_ixhsp2q wrote
I've heard that we burned through our marble supply... So large scale marble projects aren't going to be a thing. That being said we can still do big beautiful public works projects!
tagehring t1_ixifag0 wrote
We are capable of it, if we choose to be. That's the hard part.
thinpancakes4dinner t1_ixj4rd9 wrote
Yeah, it's not like we've lost the technical ability to do those things, but I'm not sold we still have the political will to undertake projects of that magnitude.
tmos540 t1_ixjpql9 wrote
That's because the benefits are inversely proportional to income. Basically it benefits the poors more than everyone else, and we can't have that. They need to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and buy a car. /s
TheCheeseDevil t1_ixhdz5z wrote
Who's surprised that low cost (now free) rapid transit in a busy urban corridor is popular? The article doesn't mention.
goodsam2 t1_ixhhkqv wrote
Yeah with a density around 10,000 per square mile a frequent bus would be popular. It's just you gotta have a lot of people and destinations.
I know Richmond copied the Houston bus reformatting when the pulse was proposed. Less bus routes but more frequent was the idea.
SuicideNote t1_ixhwf4e wrote
That's why my city is building 5 BRT routes. It's 1/6th the cost of the light rail project that was cancelled but more coverage.
warrcamp t1_ixknv5l wrote
Which city is that? I feel like Broad, Belvidere, Arthur Ashes, Forest Hill and Hull st BRT lines could get you just about anywhere
gbkl74 t1_ixhos8k wrote
When things are free, people will come. Not really free though, taxpayer supported.
lame_gaming t1_ixhzjuf wrote
no, when its the best option available people will use it
nobody is going to ride the bus if it comes every 30-60 minutes and is constantly stuck in traffic, even if its free
darockerj t1_ixitv3i wrote
Yup. It's why I never use the Pulse outside of commuting hours, but moreso about frequency.
I thought about taking it to a spot about two miles from Scott's and the arrival time went from 15 minutes to 30 to none at all. Last time I try that.
TheCheeseDevil t1_ixi1uv2 wrote
idk, it seemed pretty busy when it was $1.50. maybe I was just riding during exceptionally brisk times
tigranes5 t1_ixipp59 wrote
If local restaurants offered free meals they would be a surprise success as well.
vibe4it t1_ixj6qb5 wrote
Not if they served shitty food in a neighborhood nobody goes to.
upearlyRVA t1_ixhyovo wrote
Exactly, start charging again and I wonder what will happen.
TheCartKnight t1_ixql2ov wrote
Pulse has been dope since it first launched.
I’ll take a 3.00 round trip over gas, insurance and maintenance any day of the week.
37BrokenMicrowaves t1_ixhhzpi wrote
How is this a surprise? This exact system used to be called a “trolley” and we had them for decades.
guptaxpn t1_ixhsxq0 wrote
Exactly!
Although I'm very against in city light rail in favor of buses that run like a light rail would. So much less expensive for buses to implement and maintain I've heard.
KentWallace t1_ixj69z0 wrote
Cheaper to buy upfront, but much more expensive to maintain. And lifespan of a bus is only a decade or two before it needs replacing while trolley cars from before WW2 are still running in SF, New Orleans, and Rome.
guptaxpn t1_ixjeiy4 wrote
I remember reading a news article years ago that made arguments against it in favor of rapid transit. Basically I support buses because I feel like they are something that provide for many but are an achievable thing to lobby for because of the up front costs. I do like a smooth running metro system, don't get me wrong, but I'm much more attracted to the reconfigurability of rapid buses with priority lanes. Much cheaper to fix errors than to dig up tracks.
Basically I think a system should trial a light rail line with buses first. Then move to introduce trains.
tmos540 t1_ixjqg82 wrote
Oooh yeah that's clever. You could turn priority lanes into tracks in some places, especially if you could bury the lines when the priority lanes ended.
WarmTaffy t1_ixhw5yv wrote
Be sure to take a look at the current survey that relates to a western expansion of the Pulse: https://www.reddit.com/r/rva/comments/z25eaf/west_broad_street_brt_survey/
I've heard they're also starting to look at a new north-south line, too. Glad to see a lot of discussion about expanding this network.
Direct link: https://live.metroquestsurvey.com/?u=bi3r3y
szeis4cookie t1_ixhwqf1 wrote
OP, can you edit the survey link into your post? This needs way more visibility
fusion260 OP t1_ixhxjq8 wrote
Unfortunately Reddit doesn't allow editing link-based posts after the fact, but I can do something else... :)
tmos540 t1_ixjqm1x wrote
Oooh a North-South line would be great!
Chickenmoons t1_ixhtrjg wrote
Not surprising. Maybe surprising to Chesterfield County Officials. But not surprising to anyone who lives in or visits the city often. Now the BRT system needs to grow. As does GRTC.
fusion260 OP t1_ixhu8c0 wrote
The good news is that both BRT and GRTC are actively researching expansion into West Broad and a potential north/south route.
It's also good that Chesterfield is a lot less resistant to public transportation than it was decades ago when it weirded its membership to seemingly block routes in a majority of the county while saying "see, we're participating."
Chickenmoons t1_ixhx8cn wrote
Chesterfield is STILL a staunch opponent of bus service. They killed their last routes a few years ago and have only recently admitted they might need some GRTC service.
The Pulse gave GRTC a badly needed chance to rebrand. But really needs substantial investment from Henrico, Chesterfield, and the City to expand service and increase frequency. Why we are building a “temporary” bus shelter AGAIN is beyond me though.
BurkeyTurger t1_ixjj0tc wrote
>They killed their last routes a few years ago
There are a couple active GRTC routes in Chesterfield, mostly near the County/City line but they're there. 1A, 2B, & 3B
You'd need to make park and rides with security for them to be viable anywhere else in the county.
pchnboo t1_ixi0is4 wrote
I’d love to see the expansion west. The number of folks that have to cross Broad at Willow Lawn to catch the bus at the old Hardee’s is frightening. That’s a lot of lanes to cross and someone is going to die one of these days.
fusion260 OP t1_ixi1scf wrote
Take this survey for the potential expansion to West Broad/288 by December 15th!
pchnboo t1_ixi5113 wrote
Done, thanks! I've never seen a survey format like this. It was a positive experience!
fusion260 OP t1_ixif4sl wrote
Nice! Yeah, it took me a few minutes, too.
Pretty sure VADOT used the same survey site for the 95/64 Bryan Park interchange feedback survey a year or two ago.
Chickenmoons t1_ixhxa14 wrote
Chesterfield is STILL a staunch opponent of bud service. They killed their last routes a few years ago and have only recently admitted they might need some GRTC service.
The Pulse gave GRTC a badly needed chance to rebrand. But really needs substantial investment from Henrico, Chesterfield, and the City to expand service and increase frequency. Why we are building a “temporary” bus shelter AGAIN is beyond me though.
Chickenmoons t1_ixhx90n wrote
Chesterfield is STILL a staunch opponent of bud service. They killed their last routes a few years ago and have only recently admitted they might need some GRTC service.
The Pulse gave GRTC a badly needed chance to rebrand. But really needs substantial investment from Henrico, Chesterfield, and the City to expand service and increase frequency. Why we are building a “temporary” bus shelter AGAIN is beyond me though.
lame_gaming t1_ixi0ezr wrote
chesterfield is run by dumb suburbanites that see the bus as what poors, homeless, drug addicts, and crazies use
the sad reality is suburbanisation means bus services wouldnt be too usefull anyway, unless its going to be zig zagging through residential streets, and even then the population density is just pretty low
iNEEDcrazypills t1_ixjhmt7 wrote
I frequently have to drive through Chesterfield to work and that whole county has its head in the sand regarding the future of development. Tons of new shopping centers with no pedestrian access or any regards to ANYTHING besides a car. So fucking stupid.
tmos540 t1_ixjro0c wrote
Don't you know? That keeps the poors out, makes it a much more pleasant experience for the upper middle class, keeping the harsh realities of a system that utterly fails more people than a country as wealthy as ours easily ignorable. It's fine to have some folks panhandling at major intersections, you can give a granola bar and a water bottle to those folks and pat yourself on the back and consider your charity for the month done. But if the poors start shopping at your favorite store, they'll start lowering prices and offering more inexpensive options, put stuff on sale. How are you gonna feel well-to-do when you don't have 9 options over 4 brands of overpriced scented candle?
lame_gaming t1_ixkh3w0 wrote
yeah thats america alright
tmos540 t1_ixjqyge wrote
Yay NIMBYism.
37BrokenMicrowaves t1_ixhu52l wrote
Someone in this sub previously made a prospective metro map that looks pretty good to me
tmos540 t1_ixjrzkq wrote
Yeah, as much as I agree with another commenter that the city isn't big/wealthy enough, I would love to see it.
soupified t1_ixhnzbe wrote
Individual cars in a densely packed area make no fucking sense. Nice to see the collective delusion is beginning to wobble, I guess.
raindeerpie t1_ixhmw0u wrote
we put it in the perfect place. if it ran down boulevard or monument it would not be nearly as effective. rockets landing was the perfect stopping point and willow lawn is a great starting point. i think we could keep extending it west and it would be just as popular. we should add more lines too. Hull street or Midlothian trnpk should be our next target.
rhaphido t1_ixhomdn wrote
They started with a great initial route. Buy in and changing peoples habits will take time but slowly expanding the network should be a top priority. Making the Pulse more useable and accessible to more of the population will benefit us all. Adoption will take time.
weasol12 t1_ixhnu90 wrote
Just as popular? Try more popular. I'd head to SP more often if I could park and ride and Willow Lawn.
PayneTrainSG t1_ixhrptj wrote
Yeah, I don't know if the next frontier is a whole new line, but dedicated lane extension all the way down to Short Pump Town Center
raindeerpie t1_ixhpdgq wrote
i think the bus already goes from willow lawn to short pump. I don't think it is as frequent as the pulse though. does anyone know how popular that route is?
dalhectar t1_ixhu1bm wrote
It's a half hour route that takes 45 minutes to get from one end to the other.
It's nothing like Pulse. The combination of fewer stops, real bus stops with seats and covering to protect you from the elements, and more frequent service would be a game changer.
raindeerpie t1_ixhuohb wrote
only 15 extra minutes to use the bus is pretty good actually. more frequency and real bus stops would be a huge game changer. that's for every route. our bus stops are practically hidden. most don't even have a sidewalk
pchnboo t1_ixi0rep wrote
It’s a dangerous crossing to get off the Pulse and run across Broad to catch the westbound bus. I love the Pulse and would be ecstatic is it ran to Short Pump.
lame_gaming t1_ixhz28e wrote
its astonishing how many people in america dont know anything about public transportation
like no shit when the bus isnt stuck in traffic its pretty popular!
KazahanaPikachu t1_ixhs7ux wrote
I wonder how it would be if Richmond had a metro.
fusion260 OP t1_ixhtlgu wrote
A metro as in a rails-based transit system?
KazahanaPikachu t1_ixhv544 wrote
Yea, like an underground system that would take you all around Richmond. Or an under/overground like we have in NoVA. I know that’s not gonna come to Richmond any time soon but I’ll at least fantasize about it.
fusion260 OP t1_ixhwl5x wrote
Richmond is unfortunately far too small to fund and support an underground metro system. In the current economy and crunch on heavy construction projects, those systems typically do well in planned cities with public transit in mind from the beginning so the infrastructure is built before anything is built above it.
The BRT is essentially an underground metro system but flexible enough to change its fleet, quantity of buses, and adjust its route to accommodate closures and detours. With the right initiative, the GRTC could easily test new routes before building out more-permanent stations and even explore seasonal rapid bus routes.
We're unlikely to see anything like Boston's Big Dig project nowadays without enough political and community will. Elon's Boring Company has yet to prove it's not a giant grift and PR stunt that puts individual small-capacity vehicles driven by humans in a tiny tunnel that only goes a mile or so underground.
ETA: formatting and context
darockerj t1_ixiuld5 wrote
I keep seeing it suggested, but anyone who genuinely expects an underground rail system to come to Richmond is either naive or out of their minds.
I also come from NOVA and love to use the Metro up there, but it's made for a much bigger population (and much higher commuting population, at that) and famously comes plagued with its own delays. Much as I think trains are cool, a bus route is a much cheaper and suitable solution for Richmond. Love the Pulse for commuting.
lame_gaming t1_ixi1noh wrote
even though a subway would probably never come to richmond, lausanne has a really weird rubber tire metro system that’s actually really cool, especially considering how small the city is
SuicideNote t1_ixhwvmh wrote
Pulse was used as an example to move forward with BRT in Raleigh. Probably the best example of 'take notice'.
buxtonOJ t1_ixi0pd8 wrote
Helps when you don't have a metro
_RetroBear t1_ixiogr8 wrote
Now fix the rest of the bus system
fusion260 OP t1_ixhxtff wrote
As requested by a commenter and relevant to this linked article, the GRTC is actively asking the public via a survey to provide feedback for a potential expansion of the Pulse BRT line to West Broad beyond Willow Lawn.
You can participate in this survey by going to https://live.metroquestsurvey.com/?u=bi3r3y
The survey closes on December 15th, 2022.
CBassTian t1_ixjvdv4 wrote
Thank you for posting this. I had some harsh words for the intersection along Cox Road which is a deathtrap for pedestrians trying to cross the street with no crosswalk or light.
HatefulDan t1_ixhzo6j wrote
Surprise? I don’t know about that,
[deleted] t1_ixk2pao wrote
[removed]
STREAMOFCONSCIOUSN3S t1_ixifeik wrote
How is success measured/defined?
Wojiz t1_ixhgxv2 wrote
It's a very "America in 2022" thing to be shocked at the success and viability of public works and infrastructural tools invented over one hundred years ago.
"Imagine this: An automobile with over ten times the capacity of your average sedan. It travels along major thoroughfares in your city, stopping intermittently. Best of all: It's free.
No, this isn't a fantasy. It's called a bus, and it's been a stunning success here in Richmond."
A few years ago, I was visiting one of the Smithsonian art museums in D.C. Big, gorgeous building, carved out of stone and marble. My friend said, "Do you think we're still capable of making something like this today?"
The answer is OF COURSE WE ARE. Of course we're still capable of making highways and libraries and train stations and post offices and town squares and bus lines and subways. It isn't like the secret techniques of early-20th century urban planners have been lost to the sands of history. We just need to re-realize that there's such a thing as a Public Good and devote our politically will to spending money on it.