Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our normal comment rules apply to all other comments.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Does this include defense against other humans who may plan to attack?

Odd…I’ve found that my dancing keeps away potential mates.

> a well-coordinated defense.

Clearly these researchers have never seen me dance

[removed]

I picture a bunch of hominids doing the thriller dance with spears and rocks

Winner is who has the best dance moves?

Seems unlikely. It’s because it’s fun

Winnie the pooh and all its cubs are gonna be catching these feet!

Or c) that we got wicked moves that cant be matched.

Dance battle!!!

Our games imitate mostly hunt or battlements. Some games imitate social interaction and other daily stuff. And it is fun. So why not?

A bit of a misleading headline. The authors aren't suggesting we evolved music and dance to deter potential predators, but that music and dance evolved from other similar cognitive abilities that we evolved to deter potential predators.

>A wide variety of species, including carnivores and apes and other primates, have therefore evolved visual and auditory signals that deter predators by credibly signaling detection and/or the ability to effectively defend themselves. In some cooperative species, these predator deterrent signals involve highly synchronized visual and auditory displays among group members. Hagen and Bryant (Human Nature, 14(1), 21-51, 2003) proposed that synchronized visual and auditory displays credibly signal coalition quality. Here, this hypothesis is extended to include credible signals to predators that they have been detected and would be met with a highly coordinated defensive response, thereby deterring an attack. Within-group signaling functions are also proposed. The evolved cognitive abilities underlying these behaviors were foundations for the evolution of fully human music and dance.

If I interpret it correctly, if a predator met a group of early hominins, those early hominins' behavioral response would include synchronized movements and/or sounds, indicating a likely coordinated defense, thus dissuade the predator.

Also noteworthy, the abstract only talks about "extending the hypothesis" and not about actually having any evidence yet to support the hypothesis. If anyone wants to peak peek at the full text and let us know further details, I'd be curious.

[removed]

[removed]

They probably did but you didn't see them because they assumed you could mount a well-coordinated defense and they ran away. That Elaine dance will scare any predator away.

OH ! like when Peter Quill saved Xandar with a dance off verses Ronan

Isn’t that what the haka is?

If you think about it, a lot of birds "dance", make noise, and usually puff up and look big while courting. While there is definitely a difference in mating behavior and aggressive behavior it has it has a good deal of overlap. A lot of birds will fan out their feathers to look big in defense as well, they often get loud and may flap around. It's easy for people to look at dance in humans as unique. But really we have a similar thing going on to birds. We have sexy dance like salsa. But we also have intimidating dance like what the Haka like New Zealand rugby team does. Or how foot soldiers would bash sheilds in unison going into battle. We loved battle drums. It makes sense that music and dance could be connected to intimidation because healthy humans are likely the best more coordinated dancers while less able (sick,old, disabled, very young) are less coordinated people and less able to have large ranges of controled movment. Dance says "I'm healthy and socially confident enough to move around like this infront of others"

Interesting. I feel as if it might be more likely that multiple animals moving extensively, causing shifting attention, may cause a cognitive overload leading to a fear or aggression response. The common response is likely fear. I don't know that most animals would have to cognitive ability to identify coalition quality. Just my thought process.

It’s more like a full-body dry heave set to music.

Humans are diurnal though and early predation and indeed current predators are often nocturnal ones. Wouldn't such a display very clearly mark when you are "most defended" as well as least defended? This seems bogus to me. Humans have had flutes for entertainment, drums of war is nothing new, death whistles, whistling arrows. I think early homids are smarter than "researchers" give them credit for

[removed]

I don't think the authors would claim that kind of cognitive ability either. The reason such a behavior would trigger a fear response is because that fear has been selected for because a coordinated defense is a greater danger to the predator. There is nothing inherent to being afraid of coordinated movement otherwise.

We’re not telling them that they have been detected. We’re telling them that we’re the biggest badasses around and we’ve got no reason to hide from the likes of them.

We’ve got a fire pit over by that drum circle and the drums are made of animal skins. We hunt in packs, and on that fire you’ll notice we’re roasting a creature that’s bigger than you are. We didn’t eat it where we killed it. We carried it for miles. Come and get it if you can. We’re right here.

Imagine a lion with the balls to attack that camp. Not gonna happen. They’re not stupid.

In modern-day Africa, the truck drivers use noise to help keep the animals away, when their truck breaks down or gets a flat. It evolved into a genre of music that is played when the truckers get together.

I see I misunderstood that statement then. Thanks for clarification.

that does sound spooky

The sprinkler move is a well coordinated karate chop. Predators be warned. I’m very good at it.

I'm picturing chimpanzees doing West Side Story now. So, thanks for that.

That's a stretch. Sounds like a stoned thought that someone decided might make a good thesis.

I'm more inclined to believe it's related to our propensity for pattern recognition.

I'm thinking a group moving and making sounds in synchrony might appear to be a single, larger creature.

You’re saying we learned to dance, sarcastically?

So it has been scientifically proven that "getting served" is actually a self-defense mechanism? This gives that movie, plus the original West Side Story an entirely new meaning!

[removed]

I would have expected "mating dance" to prevail here

So the Māori haka is actually a throwback?

They wanted to show predators that they were 2 Legit 2 Quit.

Thank you for that synopsis. It can be difficult for your average joe to get out of the mindset that evolution has a goal or intelligence. Traits that are advantageous don’t need to be reasonable or logical to be selected.

0/10 would not predate

think of the Haka

[removed]

Am I the only one who sees this and remembers the SNL sketch where Norm Macdonald’s gang is threatened by a rival gang and Norm’s gang members start doing dance moves from West Side Story? “This is bad!”

The Zulu's were pretty intimidating when they almost routed the Brits.

Is this hypothesis testable?

Or: It is fun to do when together and on shrooms.

It’s sex. It’s always been sex.

[removed]

He's breakdance fighting!

[removed]

Neither have they or they are doing different dances.

Usually dancing is sexual suggestive and source empirical evidence.

This makes immediate and perfect sense

Lion took one look into the circle pit and nope’d right on out.

[removed]

Only someone who doesn't dance or go outside would come up with such a theory.

So...what I'm hearing is: if I see a bear with some friends we we need to sing really loud and do the macaraina?

I used to laugh when they dance a pimp away in the Love is a Battlefield music video, but now don’t I feel silly

My mind went right to the snapping!

Or West Side Story

Behold oh Grizzly bear oh amex of north America the ultimate defense, the macarena!

Lion: Wait. I think there’s something wrong with that one.