Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

ShowerGrapes t1_jeeu8vn wrote

humans aren't the only animals with language. crows, for example, are capable of passing on knowledge to other crows and their offspring. and who knows how many other animals have had language in the earth's long history.

is it enough for intelligence? since we don't really know the origin of our own sentience, it's difficult to say.

20

YoghurtDull1466 t1_jefiqfo wrote

Are you saying crows aren’t intelligent because they’re intelligent as fuck

17

aalluubbaa t1_jegb1ry wrote

I think maybe the tipping point is not language in general but written language? Human civilization started to develop once we have language, written language.

So maybe you and op are both right but models like chatgpt are language models, trainined by written lanuage.

5

ShowerGrapes t1_jegcv9f wrote

written language came about long after cities and industry and all that. it was the development of agriculture, that freed up time to create more interesting things (initially with clay) and then the wheel (to carry more stuff around) that led to the need to keep track of the massive hoards that local warlords (i.e. 'heroes') were collecting from the subjugated masses. our first written documents were lists of things kept in treasuries and trade lists between cultures.

so you have it backward but the point might still be valid.

1

FreshSchmoooooock t1_jegtr0q wrote

lol you serious? Written language came about after industries? omg lol

1

ShowerGrapes t1_jeh4c0g wrote

yes. if you define industry as mass-produced objects (in this case tools, mostly) with workers making stuff not for themselves but for someone who is 'paying' them (food, in these early times).

2

wowimsupergay OP t1_jeeunal wrote

You bring a good point. But how deep is their version of language? Is it as refined as human language, able to translate entire stories, I'm purely language? Or do they just use a very primitive proto language to warn of dangers and where food is? If they just use language for survival, and only just survival, then they only have a a lexicon of potentially 100 words or less, and also the inability to chain together ideas in their language.

But literally what do I know? If you are correct, then language is just not enough

4

shawnmalloyrocks t1_jeft2xq wrote

Also dolphins. They have a communication called echo location that seems to be pretty complex. Also dolphins do things like masturbate and have sex for pleasure. They also use puffer fish to get high.

3

Waste_Inc t1_jeg8n4m wrote

Not an expert of these things but read couple of books about the subject and studied some psychology. Some dogs have been tested to know few hundred words and teached to create language by researchers. But then again most animals are inteligent to a degree and feel possibly things quite similar to us. I think from cognitive neuro science(broad topic though) perspective ”intelligence” is much more complex than that. Language in terms of our assosiative memory is possibly linked atleast to our knowledge of things.

From AI perspective I think theyre mind wouldn’t for now work like ours. Partly because we don’t fully understand how our mind works yet. Ai though will probably help us to map and understand our own mind faster than ever before.

1

FreshSchmoooooock t1_jegti6w wrote

The bandwidth of the communication determines the level of intelligence. Scary to think of how AI could use a bandwidth 123890128390128390812390812903821903 times broader than human communication.

2