Submitted by [deleted] t3_10mjowf in singularity
[deleted] OP t1_j63dz9r wrote
Reply to comment by GeneralZain in Asking here and not on an artist subreddit because you guys are non-artists who love AI and I don't want to get coddled. Genuinely, is there any point in continuing to make art when everything artists could ever do will be fundamentally replaceable in a few years? by [deleted]
A “post-scarcity” world is not going to happen in any of our lifetimes. I’m talking about the foreseeable future, not a naive repression-free utopia of infinite resources where nobody has to work. Also the shift from painting to photography was a change of the use of 2 mediums, not the handing over of methods of creation from humans to automation. Plus painting can do lots of things that photography cannot, the end goal of AI art is to have everything artists could possibly do replaceable by AI. They’re really not comparable and it annoys me when people try to act like they are.
Heinrick_Veston t1_j63fkof wrote
Advanced AI is the road to post scarcity, it's entirely feasible within our lifetimes. Where opinion differs is just how soon it'll be, but many experts have predicted the Singularity occurring in the next 5, 10 or 20 years. Depending on how old you are even the least optimistic predictions will likely play out in your lifetime.
[deleted] OP t1_j63g1op wrote
Okay, even if the planet had enough resources to feasibly allow that to happen (doubtful), so you really think any government would allow that kind of societal upheaval to happen? Some level of scarcity is literally necessary for every single modern social system to function. And most significantly Advanced AI will also unlock new methods of hyper efficient repression.
I didn’t really expect people on this subreddit to be this delusional about this topic. We are not going to be living lives of luxury free of work with everything we love at our fingertips and instant gratification on every whim. You might as well be Christians talking about how wonderful the world is gonna be when Jesus comes back.
Heinrick_Veston t1_j63k55z wrote
It's kinda rude to call people delusional, but I'll try to respond in good faith.
Firstly, I'm entirely aware how crazy I must sound when I speak about a post singularity world, it seems so far out and different to what we're used to that it's hard to wrap your head around.
The general concept behind it is that technology will advance at such breakneck, exponential speeds that it'd be impossible for us to predict what's coming next. Imagine dozens of discoveries worthy of Nobel prizes being made every day, then hour, then minute, then second.
This sounds fanciful, but with a self improving AI it's not beyond the realms of possibility. We humans think of ourselves as intelligent, but that's only in relation to other living organisms, there's plenty of space for improvement beyond what we're capable of.
At the moment we have quite narrow AIs, such as those that create the visual art you speak of, but they're still advanced compared to what we had only a short while ago. AI research and progress is moving at a very fast speed, which is partly why you'll find such enthusiasm in this sub at the moment.
If this technology continues to progress as it is, it's not unreasonable to assume that in the coming years we'll have an AI with an intelligence equal to that of a human. If that AI is able to improve upon its own code it'll soon surpass human intelligence, by the nature of exponential growth it wouldn't be long until it surpasses the intelligence of all humans combined.
At that point is it really so crazy to imagine that it could devise ways to solve any of the challenges you've posited? Would Governments even be able to control, or understand it? That's the kind of question we should definitely be asking, as is why there's such a focus on the 'safe' development of AI.
Again, I know how crazy this sounds, but this is a sub about this very concept.
[deleted] OP t1_j64l9yx wrote
Okay, I don’t agree with this but I apologize for calling you delusional, I don’t intend to be rude. But fundamentally I think the singularity is an inherently deeply flawed, basically religious concept, so talking about a post-singularity world is essentially meaningless to me. Yeah I know I’m on the wrong sub to have that opinion, but I came here to ask about AI art not debate your technoeschatology.
goldygnome t1_j640sqj wrote
Have you ever heard of atomic assemblers? They're advanced 3D printers that print in any element at an atomic scale. Ribosomes are a natural example of an atomic assembler that produces only proteins. The difference is that our atomic assemblers will be microscopic robots that can work with any element.
Imagine you had a home atomic assembler. It would be capable of making anything you need to survive, given access to raw atoms and electricity. It could make food, clothes, your house, solar panels, batteries, medicine, and even copies of itself.
That is what a post scarcity world looks like. There's no point to hoarding resources when a shovel full of dirt + the air around you contains all the atoms you'd need to make almost anything to could want. Nothing goes to waste because atomic assemblers also offer the possibility of disassembly making perfect recycling a possibility.
Even land would no longer in short supply. A person with an atomic assembler could build a life of luxury anywhere, even on marginal land that today is considered worthless. No need for infrastructure, access to water, employment or anything we need today.
[deleted] OP t1_j651lxa wrote
That will literally never happen. Again you might as well be a Christian talking about how great Heaven is gonna be in terms of how much this relates to reality.
goldygnome t1_j6axic5 wrote
I get that you don't like it, but you haven't given any reason why development will fail. The technology exists in nature, it's how you were constructed. We've already got nanoscale machines being used in manufacturing, both organic (DNA based) and inorganic. Those machines are importing rapidly.
It is inevitable (excluding a civilisation destroying crisis) because capitalism will drive manufacturing towards atomic assembly as it removes all the costs associated with a supply chain and human labor, a tremendous competitive advantage. That is also the end of capitalism because the cost of production will be close to zero with no material, energy or labor costs.
GeneralZain t1_j63jf6c wrote
Frankly, I'm of the opinion that AI will either be so incredibly good that we cant imagine it or we all go extinct. It will be such a huge fundamental shift in both our society as well as our species that it may just be the most important thing we do.
Personally I want it to be good obviously...but if we all die, then it is what it is. I'll be dead, so I doubt I will care either way. still, what's the point of being so wound up about a potential bad future, when its certainty is not guaranteed?
We humans cannot predict with any real certainty what the future holds for us, that much is true, but what we do know is that AI will be a huge part of it, and work might be phased out completely because of it.
Now the million dollar question is obviously: what do we do when we don't have to work?
Realistically there is no "real" answer to this, as I've said, we cant really know how everything shakes out.
You're right that there isn't infinite resources on earth...but we wont be solely bound to our planet forever, there is infinite space around us and thus functionally infinite resources among the stars. But there's an even simpler way to make it so you can live your dream life of excess, FDVR, matrix level VR. You can live infinite lifetimes, do as you please for as long as you please.
Boom problem solved.
BUT that too is something we are in the dark about. We just don't know how it will shake out for us. Could be infinite torture with no escape...or infinite pleasure...who knows. But nothing we say here in this reddit thread will change the inevitable answer.
What you are looking for is an answer to the unanswerable. We can't know what its going to be like till it happens. We can't know how people may react to the change (though given our history violence is a usually a good guess >.>)
The answer is, we don't know. Nobody does.
ipatimo t1_j6436s4 wrote
If there would be no post-scarcity world, you'll die from hunger, never mind, what job you are able to do.
[deleted] OP t1_j643fiz wrote
I mean, yeah
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