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Kralizec_81 t1_je9fqhc wrote
Fun fact. Same is true for the milky way, other star systems.
It is because of the way it is formed, conservation of angular momentum being the major reason. The outliers usually got hit / slingshotted by something.
Mighty-Lobster t1_je9hlly wrote
>Fun fact. Same is true for the milky way, other star systems.
In the interest of clarity, while the galaxy as a whole is roughly on a plane, and almost every planetary system is roughly on a plane, those are not all the same plane. The planes of planetary systems are essentially random, and do not align with that of the galaxy.
dark_LUEshi t1_je9i6f5 wrote
most stars within their own galaxies are lined up in a plane though
Mighty-Lobster t1_jebd7gh wrote
>most stars within their own galaxies are lined up in a plane though
( Let's agree that you meant to say "disk galaxies" )
The spin axis vectors of the stars, and their planetary systems, are NOT at all aligned with any particular plane. They are essentially random. Take the Solar System for example. The plane of the solar system is inclined 63 degrees with respect to the galactic plane.
Allow me to reiterate my comment:
while the galaxy as a whole is roughly on a plane, and almost every planetary system is roughly on a plane, those are not all the same plane
This is precisely correct. If you specifically want to say that the positions of stars are aligned in a plane... well... that's basically the definition of a disk galaxy. A disk galaxy is a type of galaxy in which stellar orbits are roughly aligned on a plane.
dark_LUEshi t1_jeby9sg wrote
aren't most galaxies disc shaped ? Not very hard to imagine that since gravity is the force that rules over galaxies, solar systems and planets, then the distribution of stars around the massive object in the galaxy, the distribution of planets around a star, and the rings around a planet, is all from the same force, not that all objects are enligned in the same plane, but generally within one system(galaxy, solar system, or planet) well it all seems to stretch into a disc. Maybe if the massive thing at the middle wasn't rotating it wouldn't spread out into a disc, i'm no astrophysician.
Mighty-Lobster t1_jecf05o wrote
>aren't most galaxies disc shaped?
Uhmm... "yes and no". Most galaxies are disk shaped, but most stars in the universe are in elliptical galaxies, which are "blob-shaped". Elliptical galaxies are really huge, so a relatively small number of them really dominate. For example, the relatively nearby M87 is 200x the mass of the Milky Way.
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>Not very hard to imagine that since gravity is the force that rules over galaxies, solar systems and planets, then the distribution of stars around the massive object in the galaxy, the distribution of planets around a star, and the rings around a planet, is all from the same force,
Uhmm... "yes and no". Gravity is king, but there is also gas pressure.
This happens to be my area of research, so I hope you won't mind if I take a tangent:
In a pure N-body system with no gas, the long-term evolution is that close encounters between massive particles (e.g. planets, stars) cause random perturbations to the orbits, so over the the system approaches the shape of a blob. You can see this in globular clusters inside the Milky Way, and you see it in elliptical galaxies.
The reason disk galaxies and planetary systems don't look like that is that they were originally made from a gas cloud. In a gas cloud, gas particles collide with each other, and that tends to remove the random motions. So you are left with only the average motion, corresponding to the "net" angular momentum of the system. And that's how you get those clean, flat disks. The disk around a black hole is the same.
Gravity Only = Blob
Gravity + Gas = Disk
Today the solar system has almost no gas, and the Milky Way has already used up 99% of its gas. But because the planets and the stars were born in the gas, their present orbits reflect the shape of that gas. But if you look within the Milky Way, you will see that the oldest stars have more random orbits, making a thicker disk than the one made by the youngest stars. These are in fact called the thick disk and the thin disk.
Oh, and I just thought of another example. The galactic bulge of the Milky Way has a very large star density and it is very old, and that's why it looks like a blob. It's like a mini elliptical galaxy.
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>Maybe if the massive thing at the middle wasn't rotating it wouldn't spread out into a disc, i'm no astrophysician.
I mean this in the kindest possible way: The term is "astrophysicist".
A physician is a type of doctor (what can I say? English makes no sense).
A physicist is a scientist that studies physics.
dark_LUEshi t1_jecma6j wrote
Oh no don't worry I'm glad you took time to break it down, it all makes sense to me but you added a bit more to it. I can picture celestial objects closer to the core of their galaxies will move faster and mash into each other more often and influence orbits of each other and whatever was first a disc might turn more into an orb, especially in the middle, like you said with the galactic bulge.
Eh no worries, English isn't my native language, astrophysician was the closest I could get, I should have listened to the spellchecker lol. ^_^
Durrynda OP t1_je9fgcw wrote
Why is it happening so? Sounds way to simple to be true in something so complicated as space. Even electrons have 3-dimensional orbits but planets somehow don’t?
Mighty-Lobster t1_je9i7yh wrote
>Why is it happening so? Sounds way to simple to be true in something so complicated as space. Even electrons have 3-dimensional orbits but planets somehow don’t?
Astronomer here:
I would like to clarify that, while each planetary system is on a plane, and the galaxy is on a plane, they are not all the same plane. The planes of the planetary systems are essentially random, and not aligned with the galaxy. Our own solar system is not aligned with the galaxy either.
The reason why spiral galaxies and planetary systems come out in planes has to do with the fact that they are all born from a gas cloud. Any initial gas cloud has some initial angular momentum. As it collapses by its own self-gravity, it has to spin faster to conserve angular momentum. This by itself is not enough to make the gas form a disk. The last ingredient is that gas in space actually behaves like gas ---- it feels pressure, it emits energy. So the initial gas cloud is a "blob" with a lot of random motions, pressure (think gas drag) dissipates most of the random motions, leaving only the "average" motion, which would be a rotation in some direction corresponding to the net initial angular momentum of the blob.
Stars in the galaxy are on a plane because stars from form the gas, and the gas was on a plane. Planets are on a plane, because planets form from the gas (well, Earth forms from the 1% of dust inside the gas) and the gas is on a plane.
House13Games t1_je9g2pj wrote
gravity of all the planets pulling on each other pull them into a stable, flat plane. Imagine all the planets but one rogue one are in this same plane, like circles on the surface of your desk.. The rogue planet orbits at a big angle, so even if it is going in a circle, half of the time it is above the desk, and half the time below (like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/Orbit1.svg/1280px-Orbit1.svg.png - the grey is the plane all the planets are in, apart from the rogue one which is the yellow orbit) . When it is above the plane, all the other planets are located below it, and pull on it with gravity, down towards the plane. When it is below the plane, the planets in the plane are all above it, and they all pull it up. Over a very long period of time this brings the rogue planet closer and closer into the plane. Once within the plane, the planets still pull on each other, but there are no forces which would cause them to leave the plane again. Over time everything will settle into this single plane as its the only true long term stable solution.
dark_LUEshi t1_je9ie23 wrote
gravity is one of the major force in the universe, id guess it has something to do with the way celestial objects are spinning and how their mass affect things around them. I would hazard a guess that planets in the solar system turn on the same plane the sun is.
DeanXeL t1_je9iequ wrote
To add to this, due to OP's comparison with electrons orbiting a nucleus in 3D space: where planets and other materials in space all PULL on each other due to gravity (don't ask what gravity is, IDK, okay? Nobody knows!), electrons PUSH on each other, they repel one another. So they get pulled in by the nucleus, but when they come to close to each other, they start repelling one another, and thus they can end up in seemingly 3D orbits, because this allows them to be the furthest from each other.
H-K_47 t1_je9htut wrote
I must admit I'm terrible at physics so I don't fully grasp it, but seems like it's because the solar system formed out of a spinning ball of gas and over time the spin caused it to flatten out (like a pizza dough, I guess?).
https://science.psu.edu/science-journal/winter-2021/FlatSolarSystems
As for why atoms aren't similarly flat, it seems to be because at that small scale the gravity is a negligible factor compared to the other forces, such as electromagnetism. The electrons repulse each other.
https://www.quora.com/Our-solar-system-spins-on-a-flat-plane-so-do-atoms-also-do-this
RoughSalad t1_je9k064 wrote
If you spin a ball of pizza dough it flattens into a plane.
Riegel_Haribo t1_je9g2i0 wrote
xopranaut t1_je9fq1u wrote
The solar system formed when enough of the material drifting around in space started to clump together due to gravity. As this happened, gravity and collisions caused the relative motions of most of this material to tend to cancel out, leading to the clump having an overall velocity and a spin (that’s just a result of the physics of the situation).
As the clump continued to contract, most of it became the sun, while other bits continued to orbit this, contracting independently. Hence the planets and other bodies in the solar system generally sharing a common plane and direction of orbit.
Other events such as collisions and large bodies passing by could change this.
CremePuffBandit t1_je9fxbk wrote
All of the major planets orbit relatively close to the same parallel plane, but not exactly on it.
We usually compare other things orbiting the sun to the ecliptic, which is the fancy name for the plane of Earth's orbit. Most of the major planets are within 4° of the ecliptic, except Mercury which is at about 7°.
As for the dwarf planets; Ceres is about 10°, Pluto about 17°, and Eris is almost at 45° compared to the ecliptic, which is one of the reasons why it other Kuiper belt objects got recategorized.
glenbot t1_je9e0jw wrote
I don’t know the answer, but it reminds me of when I found out that Orion’s Belt is not actually a straight line. The planets stars are really far away from each other. If your looking at it top down it would look more like a scatter plot but looking at it from the horizontal line they look straight and side by side.
Edit: I meant stars.
MarkHamillsrightnut t1_je9ezow wrote
Orion’s Belt is made up of stars not planets.
glenbot t1_je9n0av wrote
I meant that. Early morning, brain not working.
MarkHamillsrightnut t1_je9o40i wrote
I feel your “early morning brain no worky” pain. Hope you have a great day.
[deleted] t1_je9eeo4 wrote
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[deleted] t1_je9ejy7 wrote
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dark_LUEshi t1_je9hrpm wrote
I think it's uranus or neptune that just has a weird tilt, the rest are pretty lined up.
nipplepokies t1_je9j9nu wrote
Even Earth has a tilt. Further from the sun gets more tilt. Something unseen seems to be pulling at the outer planets.
dark_LUEshi t1_je9jofb wrote
yeah maybe i just got confused with the rotational axis. I think he was more talking about the orbital plane planets are orbiting on
space-ModTeam t1_je9jra3 wrote
Hello u/Durrynda, your submission "Do planets of solar system have parallel orbits?" has been removed from r/space because:
- Such questions should be asked in the "All space questions" thread stickied at the top of the sub.
Please read the rules in the sidebar and check r/space for duplicate submissions before posting. If you have any questions about this removal please message the r/space moderators. Thank you.
Opinionated_by_Life t1_je9lq2q wrote
I just checked (because I have a few weird questions), but I sure don't see the stickied "All Space Questions" thread that is supposed to be at the top of the r/space sub. I even clicked the 'rule' that mentioned it, and it says it is there, but it's not.
Perhaps some fixing or clarification is in order? Thanks.
Lolwat420 t1_je9k572 wrote
Systems as a whole have an average angular momentum that’s not obvious right away. Over time the collisions make that angular momentum more prominent
Dragonfly_Select t1_je9ogc7 wrote
The intuition: gravity, spinning (rotation), and friction/drag are the dominant factors which shape the largest scale structures.
Absent rotation gravity wants to pull everything into a ball. If you had a planet that was a cube, the sharp edges would be pulled down to make it round.
If you spin that ball, rotation causes that ball to bulge along its equator. Spin it faster and like a pizza that ball flattens into a disk.
Simplified version of solar system formation:
- There is a large cloud of gas and dust. Gravity slowly pulls it into a rough ball. This ball of gas and dust has some tiny, tiny bit of net rotation, in theory it could have 0 net rotations but the odds of that happening in nature are infinitesimally small.
- Gravity wants to pull the ball into a smaller ball. Friction/drag from the gas and dust bumping into each other slows the particles down, radiating their kinetic energy away as heat.
- Conservation of moment comes into play as the ball collapses. Think of an ice skater doing a trick. When they pull their arms in, they start spinning faster, because the amount of angular momentum must stay the same. The same thing happens to the cloud, as it collapses the average distance of particles from the center goes down ⬇️. To honor conservation of moment, the average rotational velocity must go up ⬆️.
- The increasing rotational velocity causes the ball to bulge along the equator. This new shape increases the rate of collisions which increases the rate of drag which makes it collapse more which increases the angular velocity which causes it to bulge more which repeats the cycle. Over a long time this feedback loop flattens the ball of dust into a disk with a large bulge in the center. (Sort of like what a spiral galaxy looks like).
- This is called the proto-planetary disk. The large budge in the middle will become the star. The material in the disk will begin to undergo similar collapse at a smaller scale to form planets with their moons. What is important here however is that all of the material is rotating in the same direction and physically located either in the bulge or in the disk.
- Eventually the bulge will collapse enough for stellar fusion to light within the newly formed star. The solar wind and radiation pressure from this new star will then blow most of the gas and dust which isn’t part of a planet, moon, asteroid, or comet out of the solar system.
- What is left over from this process is a star and a set of planets all rotating in the same direction in a plane
Now is it possible for planets to escape this plane? Yes but it requires an interaction with something outside the solar system because the disk configuration is naturally stable. We see this effect with regards to moons. Most moons in the solar system orbit along the equatorial planes of this planets. But some don’t. Turns out the location of the planets obits within that plane haven’t always been where they are now and they have mucked with each others moons (and even flipped Uranus on its side).
So why have the planets in our solar system not been disturbed by something outside our solar system? (say another star passing too close) Well, the likelihood of life on earth surviving such a close encounter it basically 0. Our orbit would probably get kicked out of the habitability zone, and we’d be bombarded with asteroids and comets. Close encounters of this type happen fairly frequently near the center of the galaxy where stars are close together and infrequently further out where we are. This has lead some scientists to hypothesize that the “galactic habitability zone” only includes a ring around the edge of our galaxy’s disk.
Crow4u t1_je9e5ns wrote
I'm just some guy reads stuff.
Was reading about Jupiter and it mentioned the two weirdo ice balls "down the road". Check into those.
boundegar t1_je9gl6m wrote
That might have meant Neptune and Uranus. One is tipped quite a lot and the other is all the way over on its side.
House13Games t1_je9g183 wrote
The planets all have gravity, which pull all the other planets just a little. Over a very long timescale this results in most of the planets lying in the same plane, like concentric circles on a piece of paper, and orbiting in the same direction. They are not exactly flat, they differ by a couple of degrees, but it's pretty flat. A couple of stray rocks and comets are much more inclined, some even perpendicular, but the planets themselves are very flattish, and this is known as the Plane of the Ecliptic. They are definitely not the same size though, and much further apart than is usually drawn.
H-K_47 t1_je9f7k4 wrote
I think you're referencing the ecliptic plane.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecliptic
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Ecliptic_plane_side_view.gif
Yes, most of the stuff in the solar system orbits roughly along this line, with a few outliers.