Soupjoe5 OP t1_iu98vmu wrote
Reply to comment by Soupjoe5 in Amazon may have to turn to SpaceX for help launching its Starlink rival service by Soupjoe5
2
Elon Musk accused Jeff Bezos of being a "copycat"
It will, of course, be very interesting to see if Amazon does reach out to SpaceX for its launch services and how SpaceX reacts. Blue Origin was famously tied up in a protracted legal dispute with SpaceX and NASA over the latter's choice of SpaceX's Starship as a lunar lander for Artemis III over Blue Origin's option.
Bezos also criticized the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) last year, claiming that SpaceX was held to a different, more favorable set of rules than other companies.
SpaceX CEO Elon Musk responded to that accusation on Twitter by writing, "it does not serve the public to hamstring Starlink today for an Amazon satellite system that is at best several years away from operation."
Musk has taken several swipes at Bezos over the years. When Amazon's Project Kuiper was first announced in 2019, Musk tweeted a response to the announcement, saying, "Jeff Bezos copycat." Musk, who is known for his controversial tweets and who is now the owner of Twitter, has also suggested zapping Bezos "with our space lasers" and even accused the Amazon founder of impotence on one occasion.
77SevenSeven77 t1_iu9mdup wrote
Weird that there’s a legal dispute over who NASA chose. A quick google seems to suggest SpaceX have had 186 launches and Blue Origin have had 22. Oh I wonder who to choose…
FourteenTwenty-Seven t1_iu9on6k wrote
Even worse, none of the BO launches have been orbital
just_thisGuy t1_iu9vmui wrote
This, orbital is key. It’s like comparing someone who runs marathons regularly to someone who walks around the block after lunch.
Vercengetorex t1_iu9zy84 wrote
Yeah, I’m pretty sure BO is still at 0 launches that matter.
pm_me_ur_ephemerides t1_iu9om3g wrote
And Blue Origin has never achieved orbit, despite being founded a year before SpaceX. BO is kind of a joke, so it’s hilarious to see it held up as a serious competitor to SpaceX.
welshmanec2 t1_iu9tya3 wrote
Bezos is more a competitor to Richard Branson. SpaceX is an actual space company.
toodroot t1_iub81v2 wrote
Branson spun off Virgin Orbit from Virgin Global. Virgin Orbit has been to orbit.
MakionGarvinus t1_iua6659 wrote
I'd even put Virgin Galactic ahead of Blue Origin. In the sense of going orbital, their contraption is a few more boosters away from that.
Shrike99 t1_iubpb70 wrote
Virgin Galactic will never reach orbit. Virgin Orbit however have already done so, and as a sister company I think it's fair to lump them together for the purposes of comparing to Blue Origin.
Slightlydifficult t1_iu9ugas wrote
What’s wild to me is that Bezos definitely had better access to capital than Musk, what went wrong for BO? They can hire the best engineers in the world and are still struggling.
Mntfrd_Graverobber t1_iua8q41 wrote
So many people and even other auto companies keep thinking Tesla and SpaceX' successes can be easily duplicated. Turns out they both really are genuinely difficult problems and Musk's companies are rather exceptional at finding solutions. But people don't want to admit this, either out of arrogance or personal dislike of Musk.
ELFAHBEHT_SOOP t1_iuc5cth wrote
Musk is very good at cutting out bureaucracy and giving his engineers the tools they need to get stuff done. Large legacy companies are filled to the brim with bureaucracy. I think the Netflix documentary "Downfall: The case against Boeing" shines a light on exactly how Boeing went from an "engineering first" company like SpaceX to the Wall Street pleasing profits driven company it is today.
Slightlydifficult t1_iuabqo9 wrote
I honestly hate Musk but I won’t deny how successful his companies have been. Either he’s excellent at creating drive or he knows how to hire great people. I can’t stand the dude but I love my Tesla and I see big things for Starlink in the future.
pm_me_ur_ephemerides t1_iuax3ul wrote
He knows how to get people to work really hard and how to build a cohesive culture. From what I hear, blue is full of cliques pushing different cultures. Ex-Boeing people, ex-SpaceX people, ex-Aerojet people, etc.
p-d-ball t1_iubo2c2 wrote
They probably don't let their engineers go to the bathroom.
Mntfrd_Graverobber t1_iuagfxy wrote
I'm pretty much with you. I could care less about the guy. But I can separate my feelings about stupid shit he says that I disagree with from his and his companies' achievements.
Few_Carpenter_9185 t1_iuax895 wrote
It's pretty much this.
First an observation of making Acronyms of both companies. "BO" makes one think of "Body Odor". "SX" has connotations of "Sex" maybe?
Anyway, it seems like Musk took a chance on paying a LOT of attention to whatever Legacy Aerospace and NASA do not do well, and pivot 180° from that wherever possible when giving his input to core SpaceX philosophy, organization, and mission.
A lot has to do with Gwynne Shotwell a truly remarkable human being, with a ton of both technical aerospace engineering and business acumen. I'm guessing Musk and whoever did the search for her did a deep dive to find someone committed to "better, faster, cheaper, and different" beyond just superficial platitudes.
I've worked in Aerospace QA from a software ststems/tracking side. And in Manufacturing Execution. So I admittedly have a very vague overhead view of what culture and processes are in the field, but I get the sense, a smell almost... that things are radically different at SpaceX. Risk, process, everything.
I can't say for sure, but Bezos seems to have gotten more into emulating Legacy Aerospace to a degree. And the choice of Bob Smith from ULA and Honeywell might back that up.
Only a subjective impression, but any agility Blue Origin displays seems in response to SpaceX if anything.
Mntfrd_Graverobber t1_iuaz2cq wrote
The name straight up sounds like "space sex". Because Elon.
Appreciate the insight. And Gwynne is definitely a treasure. I've often said I bet Elon wishes he had someone like that for Tesla. She is certainly part of what makes SpaceX exceptional. And they did hire her because she had a similar idea of "better, faster, cheaper, and different". SpaceX is the kind of company she dreamed she could work for when traditional aerospace was all there was, despite the problems or shortcomings of traditional aerospace being known.
[deleted] t1_iubfbnl wrote
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RedBaret t1_iu9wqtp wrote
You cannot solve problems by just throwing money at them. You need people who are motivated, who want to innovate and who are proud to work for their company.
Amazon has a track record of treating their employees like shit time after time and instead of making them feel valued making them feel easily replaceable.
the_way_finder t1_iua1bpn wrote
I feel like Musk really wants to go to space
I feel like Bezos is doing it because he can
Mindset is important. It determines your milestones and your day to day
RedBaret t1_iua49rk wrote
Yes I feel like, as with Amazons attempt at other things such as a fantasy series, they are only in it for the money.
Musk is obviously also in it for the money, but he comes from a place where he really wants space exploration and colonization to be a thing.
It’s telling when Musk hasn’t gone to space, but Bezos did and treated it like some glamour PR stunt.
jamqdlaty t1_iub9hhj wrote
What stuck in my mind was Elon’s interview with Everyday Astronaut after the presentation of the first Starship prototype. He couldn’t stop talking with him knowing he’s a guy who understands what Starship is and knows quite a lot about rockets. The best part was that there were other reporters waiting for Elon and being frustrated. Elon was so pumped about the idea of Starship that he wanted to talk about it with people who understand rather than just regular reporters.
ZeroGrav4 t1_iuaab5g wrote
Couple of pieces of interesting context that I can add here. Source is a friend who works for BO.
BO talks about being in the middle of a transition from a research institute to a manufacturing company. That's a hard change to make and they started that shift later than SpaceX did.
Their hiring process also specifically looks for people who are interested in "The Mission" of building infrastructure in space. For some roles you write an essay (1 page max) about why you're interested in space in general.
The pay at BO is laughably low compared to Amazon comp, but the work/life balance is apparently amazing. Still, that makes it difficult to hire and retain talent in key areas. From what I hear though the manufacturing and physical engineering side of things is league a better than places like Boeing, Lockheed, and Northrop.
18 months ago they had about 4500 employees, and they've almost doubled that now. Hiring has slowed but not stopped, and from what I gather there's some subset or employees who see BO as a good place to weather out a recession since it's not a public company and is privately funded.
Parts of the company are still WFH currently, and individuals have been hired as full remote, but the assumption is that they'll force people in to an office at some point. This includes the tech workers, who aren't happy about that, which feeds into making it difficult to retain talent.
Knichols2176 t1_iuc49uz wrote
AST mobile beat BO to launch after Bezos thought he got all the technology he needed. AST then made their tweaks without Bezos team finding out and launched 2nd satellite in September. AST will dominate this space.
Slightlydifficult t1_iued6tx wrote
Interesting! What makes you feel AST will be stronger in this space than SpaceX? Are they launching their own rockets?
seanflyon t1_iuaio4e wrote
Also the SpaceX bid offered vastly more capability for half the price. I wonder if anyone at BO actually believes that they had the better bid.
whiteb8917 t1_iua4sjd wrote
BO's launches have been Millionaire / Billionaire roller coaster rides.
I have always said, "Jeff, do an orbital launch", but all he did was to sue Nasa for being overlooked for certain projects.
mfb- t1_iucq9zz wrote
SpaceX has launched satellites for several competitors and plans launches with OneWeb. I don't see why they wouldn't launch Kuiper satellites, too.
Knichols2176 t1_iuc3xuc wrote
Bezos is a copycat. He copied AST mobile and Elon helped AST launch theirs first. Mark my word, Elons starlink and AST mobile will merge or collaborate. They compliment each other with AST able to be used by any cell phone without any extra technology and Starlink is able to provide high speed internet via homes with receiving box.
mfb- t1_iucqd23 wrote
Starlink v2 satellites will already be able to communicate with cell phones directly. They have a partnership with T-mobile.
swd120 t1_iudx0ph wrote
Not in the same way - starlink/TMobile solution is limited to text/voice due to data rate limitations with their solution. ASTS's significantly larger antennas are the secret sauce for doing D2D broadband
I'd actually like to see them merge, because adding laser link backhaul into the starlink constellation would make a killer solution.
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