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shortseller99 t1_itwc5dm wrote

People have been saying this for years. SEC has been asleep behind the wheel. Can’t wait for this company to go bankrupt

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ThisIsNotCorn OP t1_itwcpqg wrote

> SEC has been asleep behind the wheel.

I see what you did there. I think you mean TSA?

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Bostonguy01852 t1_itwsc3o wrote

Both.

He's been manipulating stock by hyping tech that doesn't exist.

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shortseller99 t1_itx0nt7 wrote

Exactly. I don’t get how people don’t seem to realize that hyping vaporware is literally the textbook definition of securities fraud.

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sdaciuk t1_itxg3v4 wrote

Dogecoin to the moon brother! Tesla will be accepting this just like real money, buy today before the rocket ship leaves without you!

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pab_guy t1_itwfnas wrote

Fat Chance. They will get past this. Tesla isn't going anywhere. The US gov isn't going to destroy that much shareholder value over a few lives. This is America.

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Good_old_Marshmallow t1_itx2u8l wrote

They did with Enron and that had the knock on effect of destroying the California energy market and getting Arnold elected governor

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pab_guy t1_itx3bag wrote

Enron and Tesla are nothing alike. If you think they are then you are missing the plot entirely.

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Good_old_Marshmallow t1_itx40ez wrote

You said the gov would never let that kind of stockholder value be destroyed tho. I gave you an example when they did. You’re moving the goal posts.

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pab_guy t1_itx9qt7 wrote

No, because in Enron's case they were destroying widespread value through their extremely illegal actions. Tesla will get a slap on the wrist and told not to advertise in certain ways. JFC this isn't complicated.

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Good_old_Marshmallow t1_itxbfq3 wrote

You think it’s impossible to imagine a major corporation has its value destroyed due to their own illegal action except in cases when it happened in which case well that was an illegal action that’s different from THIS illegal action which will be a slap on the wrist

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pab_guy t1_iu06qrl wrote

You seem to be focusing on the fact that something is illegal rather than the impact it will have. Whatever, I don't give a shit what your opinion is, it's an empirical question that will be answered by the DOJ and the courts. When it is, and Tesla is given a slap on the wrist, I will remember how stupid this conversation was, and how you were wrong. Until then I don't give a shit about your opinion.

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Good_old_Marshmallow t1_iu072pv wrote

That’s fine. I’m sure they will get a slap on the wrist for this honestly. It’s just that absolutes like the government would never destroy that much shareholder value is one of those things you don’t say without knocking on all the wood because never say never friend

Have a nice day. Hope the weather is nice where you are

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shortseller99 t1_itwjcpb wrote

True. They’ve done terrible stuff and nothings happened. People have been sounding the alarm at accounting red flags, blatant fraud surrounding things like solar city, products never coming to fruition (cybertuck, roadster, robi taxis and the list goes on) outlandish claims made by musk and worker retaliation, racism at Tesla and the list goes on. Nothings happened. Why would it happen now?

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pab_guy t1_iu07a1p wrote

And while all of those things are no-nos, they aren't corporation-ending no-nos. That people seem to think if a company is ever caught doing anything illegal, it will be shut down is very silly.

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tanrgith t1_itwzvd5 wrote

"Can’t wait for this company to go bankrupt"

Lol good luck with that

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shortseller99 t1_itx08n5 wrote

I’ve seen crazier. No one would have thought Enron, lehmen, wirecard and so many more would go bust before they did. Things happen quickly. Not too many companies out there have a fucking army of short sellers calling for their demise. It raises the question of why would they just target Tesla so aggressively and not apple or Google and other major companies? You think they just hate the company? I have a feeling it’s from more than a valuation perspective too.

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swords-and-boreds t1_itxdp80 wrote

You’re living in a fantasy world. The Model Y is one of the best selling cars in the world. Bankruptcy is not going to happen. They will get a fine, and life will go on.

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therealcmj t1_ity162p wrote

They don’t have to go bankrupt to go away.

If they get hit with a fine and are forced to refund the money they collected for the supposed self driving feature they could suddenly be in a situation where they have to go take a ton of money in loans at onerous terms to keep operating. If that happens their stock gets driven to a valuation more in line with other automakers EPS. And they suddenly become an acquisition target.

Perhaps for someone with a ton of cash, super valuable stock, and an interest in the automotive space. Like Apple for example.

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m0nk_3y_gw t1_ityewji wrote

Tesla has a ton of cash and a super valuable stock.

Pretty sure they won't even be getting a fine. This article is just a rumor from 3 people, not even anything official from any government agency.

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swords-and-boreds t1_ity1njh wrote

Tesla is not only an automaker. They’re an energy and technology company who make cars. Comparing them to the likes of Ford is a mistake.

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therealcmj t1_ity3l1b wrote

At the end of the day Tesla is public company. It has assets and liabilities and it’s valuation on the stock market is supposed to align with some multiple of its expected future value.

Right now it’s incredibly overvalued when compared to every other company in every business they’re in when compared on an EPS basis. Which means the market (i.e. investors) think there’s some magic there that makes them way more valuable than every other company you could compare them to.

The market is fickle. If they wind up in court and it turns out that they were misleading customers and owe billions of dollars their stock price would crater.

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pab_guy t1_itwgg7a wrote

Just had FSD delivered to my car last week. It's freaky.

The only times I've had to disable it have been when I didn't want to annoy other drivers on the road, as it takes weird turns and slows down or creeps forward slowly, etc...

But otherwise it hasn't tried to kill me yet, and I've seen it navigate some nasty intersections and heavy traffic. It also disabled itself when the sun was low and shining right on the windshield.

So it's actually crazy good at what it does, is actually pretty damn safe (slows way down for pedestrians, etc...), but I don't think it will ever be 100%, at least as far as inclement weather and (apparently) the wrong kind of sunshine are concerned. My vehicle will never be a robo taxi LOL.

All that said, they are brilliant in getting their customers to beta test and contribute to their self-driving AI. I feel like I'm doing Tesla a service by supervising it's AI, but I also don't mind 'cause the tech is just amazing to watch.

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indoninja t1_itwl9bw wrote

Taking Weird turns and creeping is dangerous.

> So it's actually crazy good at what it does, is actually pretty damn safe

It’s moronic to make that claim a week after getting it, while also, recognizing, they had to shut it off due to certain sun angles

> they are brilliant in getting their customers to beta test and contribute to their self-driving AI. I feel like I'm doing Tesla a service by supervising it's AI, but I also don't mind 'cause the tech is just amazing to watch.

It’s morally bankrupt to charge people premium for a beta test when they’re putting out information that encourages you to risk your life doing it.

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tango797 t1_itwoag2 wrote

>encourages you to risk your life doing it.

And other people's too

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m0nk_3y_gw t1_ityf0lv wrote

> and creeping is dangerous

Nonsense. Not creeping is dangerous.

You come to a complete stop at a stop sign. You can't fully see if the path is clear in all directions. Only a moron guns it instead of creeping forward to get a better look.

edit:

> It’s moronic to make that claim a week after getting it, while also, recognizing, they had to shut it off due to certain sun angles

That's some small peepee energy to stoop to personal attacks because you fail to see the value of a system knowing it's current limits and doing the right thing. Be better.

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indoninja t1_ityvwgr wrote

> Nonsense. Not creeping is dangerous.

In the context of weird stops and unpredictable moves, it is.

> That's some small peepee energy to stoop to personal attacks because you fail to see the value of a system knowing it's current limits and doing the right thing.

You realize thy let people drive for months with the sun at low angles, causing accidents right?

If they “knew the limits” they wouldn’t have so many clear lies about its safety.

I think it is moronic to claim a system that clearly isn’t safe enough, that the company is clearly lying about is great. I think it is moronic to laud the company for putting life’s at risk by not being honest about it.

If that hurts your feelings do better.

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pab_guy t1_iu07zt6 wrote

You are writing from a position of ignorance. Clearly. The system is very safe, you have to be a complete moron of a driver not to see and hear the clear warnings and messages on the dashboard explaining what they system is doing, and it's very clear that you are not meant to use the system unsupervised.

You aren't making a data driven decision about what is safe, you are taking some vague descriptions and drawing blanket conclusions. You are looking at public statements and not what is clearly communicated to actual drivers.

In short, you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

0

indoninja t1_iu0ag04 wrote

> it's very clear that you are not meant to use the system unsupervised.

Tesla ads disagree.

> You aren't making a data driven decision about what is safe

Hmm nhtsa or some guy in the internet….

> You are looking at public statements

Public statements from the car company.

Edit-Whines that somebody is acting like a child, blocks them and runs away.

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pab_guy t1_iu0bbd2 wrote

Again, have you taken delivery of FSD? You have no clue what the people who actually drive these are told...

And you are acting like a child.

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pab_guy t1_iu085m2 wrote

Yeah this guy is clueless. All drivers creep for visibility. Safety and wierdness are not related concepts LOL.

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lostaccountby2fa t1_ity21ph wrote

Regarding your last paragraph. You’re paying $15,000 to do all of that FOR Tesla. FSD very well might not come out of beta way pass your ownership of your car. How does that make sense?

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pab_guy t1_itzc5g5 wrote

My dude, driving anything more than a basic vehicle doesn't make much economic sense at all, so we are starting from a point of gratuitous spend on "this is a cool tech car that's also very comfy and I feel like I'm in the future whenever I get in".

I'll take it a step further: I don't actually see much value in FSD. What they have that already works on the highways is probably good enough. I didn't pay 15K for it (the price has gone up) but you are right it's probably not worth it. I bought mine used and the only model available at the time had FSD so... I used that as my excuse :)

But my Tesla has actually grown in value since I bought it. I could sell for almost 30K more after almost two years.

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the_zelectro t1_itya4j3 wrote

Turns have been a software issue for a long time. Same with creeping...

I am shocked it is still an issue

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pab_guy t1_itzchho wrote

The creeping is on purpose and necessary due to side cameras being pretty far back (on pillars). Don't know why they didn't have side view cams above the front wheels, seems like that would have made things much easier.

But the turning thing where the computer can't decide exactly what to do and sort of waffles is very weird. My car can take the same turn, on the same road, on the same day, two very different ways.

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Vulcan_MasterRace t1_itwinhl wrote

Careful.... You may be downvoted by Musk haters and people who have never even sat in a Tesla before but think they know what FSD is and what it's capable of!

Source: own a Tesla as well with FSD

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pab_guy t1_iu06y2f wrote

It's amazing how people throw logic out the window just b/c hate LOL

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Centauran_Omega t1_itx1ap9 wrote

This article is bullshit.

>Oct 25 - Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) is under criminal investigation in the United States over claims that the company's electric vehicles can drive themselves, three people familiar with the matter said.

  1. https://www.justice.gov/news?keys=Tesla&items_per_page=25&f%5B0%5D=field_pr_date%3A2022
  2. https://www.justice.gov

Are you for reals right now Reuters? Who are these people? This is literally "a friend of a friend" and that's basically hearsay. If I go to the DOJ website and can't find a thing, and Reuters claims that DOJ is doing it. That's sus.

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therealcmj t1_ity1rxn wrote

Journalists have, over the last 100 years, developed a whole set of phrases that have meanings.

The phrase “people familiar with the matter” means that the journalist knows who the people are, that they would be in a position to know what they’re talking about, and that the journalist has been able to confirm it with multiple such people.

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