Submitted by mossadnik t3_y6dzmb in technology
Comments
InsideOutsider t1_isonxcy wrote
Shooting to kill I thought presupposes the officer or a citizen's life is in danger. Since a robot is not a life, but equipment, the use of lethal force would only be applied to stop someone killing other people. Right?
Hrmbee t1_isonzig wrote
>Skeptics of robo-policing, including Tu, say these debates need to happen today to preempt the abuses of tomorrow, especially because of the literal and figurative distance robotic killing affords. Guariglia said, “It in many ways lowers the psychological hurdle for enacting that violence when it’s just a button on a remote control.” > >... > >With thousands of Andros robots operated by hundreds of police department across the country, those concerned by the prospect of shotgun robots on the streets of Oakland or elsewhere refer to what they say is a clear antecedent with other militarized hardware: mission creep. > >Once a technology is feasible and permitted, it tends to linger. Just as drones, mine-proof trucks, and Stingray devices drifted from Middle Eastern battlefields to American towns, critics of the PAN disruptor proposal say the Oakland police’s claims that lethal robots would only be used in one-in-a-million public emergencies isn’t borne out by history. The recent past is littered with instances of technologies originally intended for warfare mustered instead against, say, constitutionally protected speech, as happened frequently during the George Floyd protests. > >“As you do this work for a few years, you come to realize that we’re not really talking about a slippery slope. It’s more like a well-executed playbook to normalize militarization,” said O’Sullivan, of Parity. There’s no reason to think the PAN disruptor will be any different: “One can imagine applications of this particular tool that may seem reasonable, but with a very few modifications, or even just different kinds of ammunition, these tools can easily be weaponized against democratic dissent.”
A full and proper public debate on whether these kinds of technologies are appropriate for police forces is best done before they are adopted, rather than after. Recent history and recent speculative fiction are both littered with instances of what could go wrong in these kinds of scenarios.
3dPrintingDad t1_isood4g wrote
Damn the future looks like it's gonna suck ass! I just read somewhere that Israel put ai on some of their guns
bigtimephonk t1_isooshu wrote
This is the only way to get those cops into schools to stop shooters. But I'm sure you'll see these pop up on the streets of Portland ASAP.
st6374 t1_isoq6ia wrote
My first thought immediately went to that Dallas incident where a remote operated vehicle strapped with explosives was used to kill a gunman who had murdered officers.
So wasn't surprised to see it mentioned by the Police Lt while trying to argue for allowing his departments to use remote controlled device which can use all sorts of lethal forces.
And while I'm not inherently against such ideas. Cause I never once even objected to what happened in Dallas. I just don't trust the cops, or the loopholes that will allow cops to get away with all sorts of shit, and coverups.
Oh.. And by the way, the Police Lt. arguing had 74 complaints for the use of excessive force. And was even involved in a massive settlement for a shooting incident involving an unarmed person.
Honestly.. Each day USA heads into dystopia instead of trying to finding a rational solution for the issues.
Maybe investing in education, social security, proper welfare, proper gun control across the board, drug issues, rehab etc etc should be the first step of solution instead of killer robots & rapid militarization of cops to deal with the violence that exists in society.
CALdreamin86 t1_isor2d4 wrote
Oakland total violent crimes 2021: 1,273 US School shootings since forever: 209
Oakland murders since 1992: 2,655 All US school shooting since forever: 210
I'd say inner city violence is a bigger priority. More children die from that than school shootings.
CALdreamin86 t1_isor5q4 wrote
Police are scum and criminals are victims.
anti-torque t1_isorga8 wrote
And now, a word from our sponsor.
HuntingGreyFace t1_isosjbt wrote
imo
any robot with any weapon should be treated like a violent animal in the wild and destroyed with maximum prejudice by any Humans who are within viewable distance.
the danger of letting these things reproduce is far worse our fears and movies can even demonstrate.
Use whatever means to disable, destroy, and dismantle any armed robotic system.
they are not safe around Humanity and anyone that employs their use is an enemy to Humans.
straight the fuck up. if you Humans dont stop them now, capitalism will reproduce them to be on top of every fucking store roof with a flight system and a desire to track targets only defined as Human.
TheCynicalFraud t1_isottxy wrote
Never said that but okay. I just think in our current state we shouldn't be trusting gung ho Americans anywhere near this kind of stuff. But your sarcasm is much appreciated.
-The_Blazer- t1_isoug43 wrote
Oh don't worry, they have plenty of technicalities for that. They'll say the person in question was acting aggressively and moving towards civilians and thus they had to gun him down for everyone's safety. Like the infamous cop who told a drunk guy to crawl toward him and then gunned him down when he slightly moved his hand toward his hip.
Avantasian538 t1_isoup9w wrote
So california doesn’t trust their citizens with firearms but they do trust robots with them.
After_Programmer_231 t1_isovz1p wrote
Very interesting. I've always been against autonomous death machines. We'll have to see how this plays out.
After_Programmer_231 t1_isow4s7 wrote
You know what they say about the government. Once they get an allowance to do... anything, you'll never be able to take it away again.
Case in point, income tax.
zealotlee t1_isox5l3 wrote
Shoot. The. Battery.
zealotlee t1_isoxb02 wrote
Andros? Like the starfox villian? Yikes.
zealotlee t1_isoxf6n wrote
ID BUY THAT FOR A DOLLAARRRRR
Gilthu t1_isoxxx1 wrote
“If you Humans”? ET, you coming to warn us about droid armies?
RnDanger t1_isoy0ks wrote
People do not feel the same empathy for a target when they look at them through a screen and kill them with a button. Police aren't great at empathy and restrained force already; this will only make that worse.
MasterSnacky t1_isoysx9 wrote
YOU HAVE TEN SECONDS TO COMPLY
slowwPony t1_isozpme wrote
I'm upvoting it anyway so he can see what it looks like when he makes a good point
wadingthroughnothing t1_isp03wu wrote
Wow this is just a human rights violation waiting to happen
RoddyRoddyRodriguez t1_isp0yq9 wrote
Woof. “Andros has ordered us to take you down”
Sighwtfman t1_isp1znn wrote
I know you are kidding but that was still very stupid.
anti-torque t1_isp2348 wrote
You really have to understand policing in the East Bay, over the years.
I'll talk to a robot with a shotgun. I still do double-takes on unmarked dark brown sedans.
Sighwtfman t1_isp2asf wrote
This is a good thing.
Send in a robot. Guy controlling it is safely sitting down in his air conditioned office (or the back of a police van).
Removing the prospect of immediate peril to the policeman should also translate in to a far less likelihood of an accidental shooting.
anti-torque t1_isp2lo7 wrote
Police are often crimnals, and other police who aid and abet those fugitives from justice become dishonorable and hypocritical criminals, by definition.
So... police are victims?
[deleted] t1_isp2ob9 wrote
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Badtrainwreck t1_ispclo8 wrote
Great, next they’ll treat police robots like real officers and if you shoot one you go to prison for life for attempting to kill an officer
theblackfool t1_ispe7m2 wrote
Unless all those violent crimes are murder or attempted murder, this comparison is pointless.
theblackfool t1_ispevj6 wrote
In a perfect world where police brutality doesn't exist and people don't get murdered by the police, sure.
But that's not this world.
SidewaysFancyPrance t1_ispfxbd wrote
"We can escalate situations more quickly and more often if we don't have to worry about an officer's safety. Knowing we will all go home to our families really lets us open up with the new Street Sweeper attachment, and it feels like a fun video game!"
SpotifyIsBroken t1_ispkj4u wrote
jfc. That didn't take long. Seems like Boston Robot Whatever gave these assholes ideas.
SpotifyIsBroken t1_ispkoda wrote
They will use these robots to harass people until they get annoyed enough that they can "justify" getting away with more murders.
SpotifyIsBroken t1_ispktn2 wrote
No matter what the case is...this is 1000% dystopian.
SpotifyIsBroken t1_ispl0ty wrote
It is not a good thing. imo this is another thing for cops to hide behind when they use it to get away with more murders.
1Beholderandrip t1_ispll16 wrote
Gotta hope he's quoting something from a video game or movie.
CALdreamin86 t1_isplp1k wrote
No it's not useless. Violent crimes.
But since you want numbers to numbers Oakland since 1992: 2,655 vs 210
CALdreamin86 t1_ispm28p wrote
I think you need to shadow some officers and look into DOJ crime stats.
1Beholderandrip t1_ispmarl wrote
Unless these things are emp shielded shutting one of these off at a distance would be particularly easy.
Which means devices capable of generating a strong magnetic field will be made illegal soon.
slowwPony t1_ispom5k wrote
I think absolutely the fuck not homie, criminality is vastly misunderstood by the policing industry and they are all incentivized to make "crime" appear higher so they get more funding. It's basic fucking logic a teenager could understand
CALdreamin86 t1_ispqk48 wrote
Criminality is vastly misunderstood...ELI5
MyMomThinksImCool_32 t1_ispr0ly wrote
Then they can be like “well we don’t know who pressed the button. Whoopsies”
[deleted] t1_isprw3h wrote
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slowwPony t1_ispsraf wrote
Was this infantile enough or should I use a thick cardboard book with large friendly pictures
rusty_programmer t1_ispycfm wrote
He’s saying it’s a false equivalence because it’s not directly comparable and you know that. Violent crime is purposefully vague to fit your argument’s criteria which has little real world value.
GrooseandGoot t1_isq011p wrote
This is NOT a good thing.
Education, reducing poverty, increasing economic opportunites to give people a pathway to a better life, those would be good things.
This is dystopian hellscape
bigtimephonk t1_isq04px wrote
If cops with guns can't stop crime what are robots with guns going to do? Nothing, bro. Not a damn thing. Cops don't prevent crime. They don't stop crime. They don't solve crimes. Robots won't either. Eliminate poverty to eliminate crime.
RatchetMyPlank t1_isq2e80 wrote
Would probably fall under the term " signal jamming" which is already illegal
BuckyDuster t1_isq4gt4 wrote
Robo Cop I’m rooting for Murphy
CALdreamin86 t1_isqb9yi wrote
Well that's a new one. I notice the common theme here is crime. Have you asked criminals to not do criminal shit?
CALdreamin86 t1_isqbsfp wrote
I gave murder stats and violent crime stats.
For a city filled with crime and murder, yall sure do like to bitch about cops. ACAB amirite?
Intransigient t1_isqghac wrote
<Padme waits for a reply>
… Right? 🥺
Seeker_Of_Knowledge- t1_isqiihh wrote
Let's go, one step closer to skynet
rusty_programmer t1_isqlmj7 wrote
> amirite
Shouldn’t you be in /pol/ bro? You lost?
buruzn09 t1_isqpusf wrote
Depends on the law in the particular state, but I believe that in large part you are correct.
TheresNoLifeB4Coffee t1_isr0yjd wrote
Modern problems require modern solutions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uXnypEzau0&list=TLPQMTgxMDIwMjKLKRrbKPn6bg&index=5
Justkillintime1246 t1_isrccya wrote
Opposed to non lethal shotguns?
Trendymaroon t1_isrkfdy wrote
The police these days can’t be trusted to shoot legitimate targets, now they want to make these calls remotely. FO!
ScootysDad t1_isro9ex wrote
There it is, SkyNet. I'm just going to lay down now and save our future overlord the trouble. Great while it lasted.
1Beholderandrip t1_isrqknu wrote
Or worse, how hard would it be for someone to guess the password and gain control of one of these...
Infamous_Yogurt2858 t1_isrwt4p wrote
I for one miss the days when the movie about the brutal robot policeman was a satire.
Infamous_Yogurt2858 t1_isrx0g3 wrote
THIS.
There's a valid argument to be made for robots in certain law enforcement contexts if it means that there will be less risk to human life, but I don't think we're in a place right now where we can trust that will be the case.
Infamous_Yogurt2858 t1_isrx2wu wrote
It's not a zero-sum game.
ISnortBees t1_isrxjca wrote
What about hackability?
Affectionate-Cell614 t1_isrz6kc wrote
probably fairly easy to make it secure
-LVS t1_iss5ymt wrote
Theocrats want to end education. Their support grows exponentially as they succeed and there is no turning back that tide.
metalmagician t1_issbkkx wrote
LOL hell no, very much the opposite
ADZIE95 t1_issetyt wrote
bruh real life isn't like Watch Dogs where you can remotely hack into and control anything with your phone.
metalmagician t1_issfarl wrote
You clearly know nothing about cyber security if you agree with the statement "probably fairly easy to make [shotgun bot] secure". I had a cyber security course in my degree, and I had to spend hours in the isolated CS lab trying to crack a purposefully vulnerable WEP network. I know enough about cyber security to know it isn't for me
CALdreamin86 t1_ist9pbw wrote
No, just pointing out some stuff to the dipshits in here.
CALdreamin86 t1_ist9yph wrote
No but comparing school shooting to city crime is ridiculous. Someone had to pull the stats.
Besides I'm in the Bay, I'll talk about it.
AttackingHobo t1_istkwkl wrote
IMO even 99% of humanity tried to stop the robots. They will win.
HuntingGreyFace t1_istlhhq wrote
then you have unrealistic divine belief that humans can win in the game of survival without actually trying.
why do you think God will help us in this task? what is this divine feature that will save us here?
wont he relegate us to hell like he said he would?
systems collapse and a failure of human survival absolutely can happen here.
AttackingHobo t1_istmsx0 wrote
Oh, no I have 100% belief that robots will win, and may have already won. :)
HuntingGreyFace t1_istok0b wrote
oh, i mis aimed your use of they
i got you now
Affectionate-Cell614 t1_it5ediw wrote
huh, you tell us we know nothing about cyber security and you bolster your own experience by saying you had to spend hours in a cyber security lab purposefully cracking a WEP network? lmao. hasn't wep been cracked for ages now and what does that even prove? You could easily make a robot secure.
Affectionate-Cell614 t1_it5eij5 wrote
I actually just google searched when wep was cracked... 2005 and it also mentioned that cracking a wep network takes minutes. sounds like you got scammed with that degree buddy
Affectionate-Cell614 t1_it5erdp wrote
systems are vulnerable to hacking because they have multiple points of attack. like giant banking companies with thousands of systems across a large geographic area, so there is bound to be one vulnerability somewhere. this is a robot with one controller.
metalmagician t1_it5guuf wrote
....and? It was one class in an undergrad degree, I wasn't doing cyber security research. Physics undergrads aren't discovering new particles and premed undergrads aren't curing cancer.
Also, we weren't script kiddies begging for premade exploit files, our assignment was to exploit a known vulnerability using a nop slide in C++. If you think that's easy, then I doubt you've had to write C++ at all
As I mentioned earlier, I know enough about cyber security to know it isn't for me. You don't need to be Steven Fucking Hawking to know you don't want to learn high level math.
metalmagician t1_it5kjgl wrote
I know very little about modern exploits (take this with a pinch of salt), but I imagine one could exploit the bots like so:
-
software updates will need to be periodically installed to the dog. I really really doubt they wouldn't update the software after release, given how novel the bots are
-
the software updates will be authenticated somehow, to ensure that "only" the software vendor is the author of an update.
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if an attacker can successfully impersonate the software vendor, they could load malware onto the robot through the existing update process. This would be similar to the attack that came through SolarWinds
LigerXT5 t1_isomu2s wrote
My first thought is, no, not because of the movies and tv shows depicting robots causing mayhem of various sides of the scale, but how are the robots controlled and decisions made?
If by AI, well you can only imagine how much error they will have based on their programming.
Remote controlled, like they have been before, results in quick reaction delays.
Either or can be a scare tactic to get the upper hand and/or control a situation, while still having draw backs of general control use.