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geedavey t1_iwiyrdp wrote

Do you remember a few years ago when Apple CEO told President Obama that "those jobs are gone?" Turns out they weren't.

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Just_Discussion6287 t1_iwjjfga wrote

Most jobs in the industry are going away. The factory that builds the PS5 has 5 floor workers.

When the factories are super autonomous it doesn't matter where they are built.

More jobs in shipping these products to the rest of the world than building them these days.

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mipacu427 t1_iwk0r3u wrote

I disagree that "it doesn't matter where they are built". Even at heavily autonomous factories, skilled workers will be needed to maintain the machines, program the computers, maintain the facility, etc. Not to mention the logistics of shipping in materials, warehousing, and shipping out finished products.

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IamChuckleseu t1_iwko2m0 wrote

Way more important than that is general safety of business. You can buy skilled workers if you have none (and China does not even have that many people on the top, they have more of a high skilled low and medium jobs workforce rather than high skilled job one). Either way you can not buy safe environment for your business where ruling dictator just does not wake up one day and steal all your stuff.

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Just_Discussion6287 t1_iwkugcm wrote

"More jobs in shipping these products to the rest of the world than building them these days."

Maintaining a series of machines is a lot less laborious. My example in the sony factory, there are only 4 employees that handle those roles. Compared to the 1,000s that you would expect. There's just not a lot of roles to carry on.

Think about the PS2, that required chip designers(Which is now AMD outsourced), more marketers, every part of the supply chain was larger included used games sales. Sony had 2x the employees in 2009 than it did in 2022. And half the revenue.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/PlayStation-s-secret-weapon-a-nearly-all-automated-factory

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CoquitlamFalcons t1_iwkcr9h wrote

I wonder why Foxconn’s Zhengzhou iPhone factory employs 200K workers…

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PierG1 t1_iwks5x2 wrote

Because if you pay them less than what’s worth an assembly robot and it’s maintenance it’s still cheaper to hire people

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Just_Discussion6287 t1_iwku3ru wrote

Same reason the sony factories used to employ more people.

The automation doesn't destroy 200,000 jobs overnight. The factories you are referencing look a lot different post covid versus iphone 7. There are some design failures that are specific to apple products limiting automation for a couple of more years.

The technology for AI/ML digital twinning(nvidia omniverse isaac) and fine robot control is only months old not years.

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quettil t1_iwn1ggl wrote

It's not just about jobs it's about national security and balance of trade.

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sysadminbj t1_iwisuxs wrote

There was a second where I thought that Apple was using a literal plant to make chips. Sometimes I am not smart.

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Heequwella t1_iwj63cj wrote

You say potato, and I say silicon fabrication facility.

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linusSocktips t1_iwiww0v wrote

It's the way that reads! I did the same thing haha. Oh neat new plant chip technology. Huh?! Lmao

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MoufFarts t1_iwkkoa2 wrote

I’m Arizona, can confirm we have silicon chip plants growing in the wild.

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surfingNerd t1_iwix3j7 wrote

How close are they to reducing the need for human assembly line workers and automation taking over a substantial part of assembly line?

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geedavey t1_iwiyxzo wrote

So, Elon Musk tried to create a robotic factory, spent a few billion figuring out what everyone else has figured out, that it doesn't work. There's even a video floating around of him saying that he underestimated the value of the human touch.

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the_jak t1_iwo3fu9 wrote

He spent billions learning what GM learned and told everyone about in the 80s. You can’t build a lights out car plant.

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the_red_scimitar t1_iwj372q wrote

Well, that last sentiment surely didn't last. At least with twitter, he's opting for nobody at all.

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IamChuckleseu t1_iwkpfqf wrote

This is absolute nonsense. The only thing He admitted is that it was rushed. Not that it was wrong. Also it is outdated already. Tesla's factories are way more productive than other car maker companies. And it is not even close. Every company strives to remove low skilled workers. It is just about calculations on return of interest. Not some absurd "human touch". Everyone on engineering position in the industry will tell you that.

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w00master t1_iwmjg98 wrote

With some of the worst in quality control.

Tesla - the most ironic name ever for an Elon Musk company.

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Fake_William_Shatner t1_iwizmbl wrote

I really don't know how to convert 3 years into meters.

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the_red_scimitar t1_iwj3bci wrote

Well, we don't do that here. You can however convert 3 years into the appropriate number of quarters, eights, and 16ths.

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Gulf_Sailor t1_iwj06zo wrote

We have too little water to be building chip plants out here

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ThoriatedFlash t1_iwj4pfq wrote

We may need to stop giving a bunch of cheap water to the alfalfa farms. I don't know how much water the chip plants use, but I would imagine it is less than the farms.

https://azpbs.org/horizon/2022/06/saudi-water-deal-threatening-water-supply-in-phoenix/

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Gulf_Sailor t1_iwj5hjh wrote

The alfalfa crops are also absurd, especially the ones that go straight to the Saudis, who drained their own aquifers exporting wheat.

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drawkbox t1_iwkp9fv wrote

Most chip plants recycle/reuse/reclaim almost all their water. Intel has always had that in the US, been doing that since the 90s in Arizona, and around 97% of water is fully reused.

Another aspect is it industry is built in the US and Arizona makes sense from environmental impacts (no earthquakes, hurricanes, winter etc) then the industry will make sure more water makes it to Arizona.

In a way having production in the desert there will lead to water innovation, like pipelines/geoengineering/solar stills/desalination/innovations on recycling more water and many other things.

Necessity drives innovation.

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hammeredtrout1 t1_iwjjqaq wrote

I feel like this is to avoid tariffs, right? Maybe an unforeseen benefit of the CHIPS Act?

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Rugged_Refined t1_iwk3xvb wrote

It's for diversification of supply. I'm sure there may be other benefits but that is the main reason.

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hightechsolution t1_iwkmsc2 wrote

Is it because Tim got roasted by Ricky Gervais

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ITlocknkey t1_iwlj4bn wrote

Only took them a few decades

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skunksmasher t1_iwn7o7p wrote

I am lost? Is child slavery allowed in Arizona?

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EITBRU t1_iwiy0s6 wrote

I believe, because of COVID policies in China, the supply chains are disrupted there So Apple is trying to find alternatives suppliers. Their needs are huge!!! The rest of the article is politics !!

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jphamlore t1_iwj5ykt wrote

How does sourcing chips that were never made in China move the supply chain away from China?

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SuperToxin t1_iwjfswh wrote

So Apple now is gonna get chips NOT from china, therefore the supply chain for them has shifted away FROM china.

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circumtopia t1_iwl33mq wrote

They were not from China in the first place. There is hence no difference or shift.

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Vaeon t1_iwixxn1 wrote

iPhones will soon cost $16,000

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MossytheMagnificent t1_iwiz3mw wrote

This makes me a little uneasy. It's almost as if they are expecting trouble.

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TheJadedSF t1_iwj9bnj wrote

Not really. Why make something overseas when you can do it in your own backyard for the same or less, while improving availability for your products? China's lockdowns are hampering Apple right now big time. And not having a communist government impede your business is always preferable.

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circumtopia t1_iwl37d9 wrote

It's moreso because the us is blocking chip exports and imports from China. I.e the US democratic government is impeding on their business.

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Jedclark t1_iwl8amb wrote

Apple's chips are manufactured by TSMC which is a Taiwanese company. The plant in Arizona is a plant being built by TSMC in the US.

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circumtopia t1_iwnqrzw wrote

Look up their nand chips.

But yeah the article is meaningless since they never made their main processor in China in the first place

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