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KSRandom195 t1_j1fxhww wrote

Reply to comment by ponderousponderosa in Tech Layoffs Set the Clock Ticking for Foreign Workers by buncley

It’s a complicated issue.

The existence of immigrant workers drives down the wages for folks that would be able to fill those jobs locally. For instance, the current worker shortage is somewhere around 3 million people. A full two-thirds of that is from immigrants that didn’t immigrate because of new immigration policies put in place during the Trump administration. Because of that we’re now seeing an increase in wages and job mobility because there is less supply of labor for the same demand, and thus price must go up and workers have more power.

I’m not saying what he did was good, but for local workers it’s one of the fuels for the current power struggle around wages and workplace conditions that may end up improving the situation for the worker.

The same applies to H1-B visas, that are popular at large tech companies, but is designed for hiring specialists that are not available locally. Could tech companies find software engineer locally? Absolutely, could they find enough? Probably. But there would be decidedly fewer tech employees, and that would have a similar affect of less supply, which means higher wages. But with H1-B visas there is more supply, and so that depresses wages for the local employer vs if that supply wasn’t there.

Now, that leads to a fun question of why should we try to protect the wages of local employees? After all, these are global companies. The reality is that these companies chose to start or are headquartered in the US because it provides the best place to do their business. So something specific about US policy make the US best able to host these companies, and so logically those companies should be giving back profits through taxes and wages to their local employees.

So I disagree with the notion that Americans should feel bad about this program. It’s a complicated issue with lots of inputs and outputs. It’s actually easier than what some other countries do, and of course is harder than others. As long as we have nation states we will have to deal with this kind of policy issue.

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ponderousponderosa t1_j1gasgk wrote

Gross. I didn't realize American was an isolationist country who protected its citizens from competition. I guess it has to be now but that's not going to put us back on top of the world. You're justifying a pretty fucked up policy that takes advantage of people in order to protect the most privileged citizens from a bit of competition. What happened to the American dream? It's still alive for immigrants...

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spellbanisher t1_j1gciyp wrote

It's an incorrect understanding that assumes jobs are a zero sum game. But jobs can beget more jobs. For example, a company may wish to expand into AI. But maybe to do so competently it may need to hire at least 50 people. If it can't find enough people it might not make sense to expand into AI at all. By bringing in 25 workers, they would be creating 25 jobs for domestic workers.

Then there is the fact that immigrant workers create demand in other parts of the economy. They eat out, start businesses, buy cars, etc.

Finally, we shouldn't forget that these tech companies make massive profits. They can afford to pay all their employees very well. If domestic workers fear eroding wages, they should organize with immigrant workers instead of dividing themselves.

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Fraccles t1_j1gmdkg wrote

The situation is not binary. It is not "immigrants or no immigrants". Saying a reduction of a sliding scale is the same as it being zero just confuses the issue.

You wouldn't respond to someone reducing their speed in a car with "why have you stopped?"

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KSRandom195 t1_j1gkqfv wrote

I didn’t say it was a good policy. I said it was a complicated issue and gave some context as to why. I think we should be more free with many policies, but I don’t think the world is in a place we can do that yet.

We need policies to address the world we live in, not the world we wish we did

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