Submitted by buncley t3_ztvuph in technology
Comments
Sniffy4 t1_j1g5ef7 wrote
the problem is tech companies feel free to abuse their h1b workers with absurd work requirements because their alternatives are limited, and the detrimental effects spill over to their domestic co-workers as well
neomis t1_j1i1t8m wrote
This. I’ve seen h1b’s put up with so much toxic culture because if they get fired they have something like 30 days to find a new job or they’re kicked out of the country. The companies Glassdoor rating was terrible and no engineer with any other option would apply. Instead of fixing the culture issue and raising wages they just hired more h1b people and the downward spiral continued. It sucks because it also drives a wedge with employees who blame h1bs for keeping wages / conditions down when really everyone should just be blaming upper management.
hodl_4_life t1_j1iijtq wrote
The rich guy convincing the middle class guy to blame the poor guy… isn’t that what making America great again is all about?
[deleted] t1_j1gsghc wrote
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[deleted] t1_j1fym3p wrote
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sex_is_immutabl t1_j1jqpau wrote
They tried it in the UK but we just wind up with the shit left over that couldn't get into the US with the H1b lottery. ARM Holdings in particular made a massive push for "diversity" and in reality just hired a load of indians cheaper than a UK citizen owuld have accepted. It turned CB1 into an entire slum in the process. Guess who owned the property there?
9-11GaveMe5G t1_j1frwfx wrote
I think with immigration, much like healthcare, the majority of us agree it's a problem and needs fixing. We just can't agree on the path forward.
thatVisitingHasher t1_j1j6j0f wrote
The problem is I feel like we’re putting our fingers in our ears and refusing to move the conversation forward
PacmanIncarnate t1_j1geboi wrote
Then we should be streamlining the green card process. H1B wages are depressed by the requirement that you work for just that one company. If we put people through the security checks for H1B and they show they are employable in a high income field, they’ve essentially proven they are worth keeping here and shouldn’t be a burden, which is what a lot of our immigration system seems to be based on.
Immigration is good. Immigrants earning money here and spending it here is good. Ensuring foreign workers view their time here as temporary and take their accumulated wealth and experience back with them to another country is just idiotic. It’s the worst outcome: locals have less chance to get a high paying job because there are H1Bs to fill the roles with less power to negotiate, AND the wealth is largely transferred out of the country.
Raalf t1_j1gqot6 wrote
except these H1Bs are taking half the rate (or 1/3 the rate) of domestic roles. The intent of the H-1B provisions is to help employers who cannot otherwise obtain needed business skills and abilities from the U.S. workforce by authorizing the temporary employment of qualified individuals who are not otherwise authorized to work in the United States.
That is the abuse going on, and until the H1B visa makes the salary of the visa-holder equal or above that of domestic market it's just outsourcing and not as intended.
uselessadjective t1_j1grzsj wrote
Woah, I am shocked at most of the comments here.
I used to work for a big billion dollar firm on H1B (long time back) and my package was over $300K. I mean come on, I used to get over $60K just in stocks every year.
There is so much wrong news that H1Bs are underpaid. If the folks are referring to Consulting Firms then YES they abuse H1B.
Bur companies like Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta pay over $400K also for qualified H1B.
So using a blanket statement that All H1Bs are undeepaid and used to replace local jobs is wrong
These are mostly stupid folks commenting here. Either they are disconnected from the reality OR Just pure jealous.
One thing which I have seen in H1Bs or folks on VISA is they work way too hard (because they purchase house, have kids etc and can not afford to uproot everything and end up overworking). Unfortunately US Capitalism wants more revenue every quarter to show to NYSE so the H1B guy working day-night takes the promotion. It is mainly the drive to suceed. I have seen over 1000s of H1B guys almost all working 12+hrs daily (weekend working pretty common) and guess what Corporate America Likes this..
So if you wanna blame then blame Corporate America
Now I have Green Card so I dont toil hard over weekends, Guess what my VP has caught another H1B guy who can deliver 2 projects :) This is a system and not fault of H1B folks. I am now on other side of the fence and probably VP might kick me out some day because he'll obviously draw my comparison with the other H1B folk (who works 2x for the same salary). Corporate America guys. So you have a choice Either work like hell OR Coporate American Execs will just find an excuse to replace. I am on the other side of the fence but I know life of H1B guy is. The harsh truth is One can not compete with a guy who is willing to work 15hrs daily to protect his working status What will a local guy do here ? Tell me some genius idea which I can also implement in my life.
It is the Executives, CEOs, COOs takinf advantage of the system. I also know some folks on H1B in Google getting $650K. I know a doctor on H1B who gets $800K yearly but these guys are asked to work 15+hrs a day and they work happily because they want to succeed at every cost.
Even if locals try to compete they will have to keep their 'work-life balance out' and trust me the moment anyone tries to bring this up to HR then they'll be shown the door using some excuse.
Corporate America wants slaves to work which can lead to more projects in shorter timeframe, more revenue. Cost is not much of a factor. Also Trump and Obama Admin did a lot of cleanup.
kalipede t1_j1gtbto wrote
I have worked for multiple companies in the Bay Area and the visa workers were all paid really well.
dinner_is_not_ready t1_j1h0tx8 wrote
There are well enforced laws in place to ensure H1b workers are highly paid
Raalf t1_j1gsfps wrote
I can tell you personally I have watched over 3500 positions (probably closer to 5-10k but I'm going with confirmed rate drops by me firsthand only) in the last 10 years get outsourced to half or below wages to H1Bs. I'm sure that's just a minor number in your book but it sure as fuck looks large when it's in your city, your companies, and your field. Call it whatever you want but it's real and it's now.
uselessadjective t1_j1guo6l wrote
What you mentioned is H1B Consulting Firms NOT companies like Google, Microsoft, Tesla, Meta etc...
When you say you managed 3500 positions I expected you to have better knowledge of H1B Consulting Firms vs H1B Product Based Companies
You just desribed the problem. Most folks don't know these 2 types of H1B Companies and are way too over confident to pass a judgment
draculas-shaggyballs t1_j1hiyu3 wrote
You don't even have to work that much harder. What matters is the output. And those of us coming from overpopulated underdeveloped countries have been forged in an environment where you need to have a hyperactive attitude to outcompete your peers. I don't work any harder than American students at my grad school, and my professor doesn't want me working after hours either. Many of the faculty I'm familiar with basically say that they've started preferring East Asian and South Asian students because they can be more productive and more interesting than American students at the same time. All the Asian grad students here seem to be top of the class, high up in citations, pop culture nerds, classical musicians, sports heads, fitness enthusiasts, technical gurus- all at the same time.
uselessadjective t1_j1hw1cj wrote
You just desribed the problem in again (as above) in your own words.
How do you solve it ?
Coporate America love this kind of hyperactive, over compering folks. Fuels their revenues and stocks prices.
cusmilie t1_j1jml9d wrote
What jobs are making over $400k in Microsoft, Google, etc.? General curious because I know tons of people that work for them and nobody makes that much.
uselessadjective t1_j1ksypn wrote
SWE Or Sr SWE to start
TPM - Technical Program Manager Product Manager Sr Product Manager
Mostly any job above L6 (Level 6) ia $400K at Google.DM me for details.
cusmilie t1_j1loeqv wrote
Awesome. Thanks. I’ll DM you.
imissze90s t1_j1idg82 wrote
It's difficult to feel sympathy for "slaves" making high six figure salaries.
uselessadjective t1_j1ifqmw wrote
So the alternative is to smash them ? Right instead of criticizing CEOs
What a great attitude. If you cant make money so criticise those who make money. Why don't you work 15hrs so that the CEO hires you.
PiedCryer t1_j1g9sdm wrote
True, the abuse is rampant and why companies like Cisco will do mass layoffs once in a while to clean house. Some cultures create a system that if you hire another that they will provide you a percentage of their salary. It then snowballs from their until corporate cleans house. Then it starts all over again.
[deleted] t1_j1grldn wrote
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MuscleHead2022 t1_j1gpy0y wrote
They’ve filled it feels like 1/3 of our customer service with international folks that are likely cheaper and don’t have to pay benefits. We never got the complaints about having people that can’t speak English until last year.
draculas-shaggyballs t1_j1hj26k wrote
That is not H1B, those are remote jobs performed from outside the country.
venti_cocaine_latte t1_j1i5hay wrote
I agree, and the quality of these H1Bs is subpar at best…not to mention severe lack of professionalism…it’s like being in a kitboga scam call everyday.
MountainScorpion t1_j1insvr wrote
H1-B should be banned entirely. We have hundreds of thousands of unemployed programmers already here. There is no excuse. There are people who can and will do the jobs - pay the damn wage the market demands.
i_max2k2 t1_j1gj7rz wrote
From where do you base this wide spread abuse? Obama tightened a lot of these policies. H1B Visas are hard to get, most tech companies prefer to find US citizens who can fill these roles, and for the last decade or so prefer to have fewer people on visas as they can. US citizens are much more likely to get a job if they can be close to enough. The issue is they aren’t a whole lot of qualified workers available visas or not.
FoggyBottom4u t1_j1gk2ai wrote
.... on about 150 US citizens replaced by foreign IT staff in my company. Not all at once but 10 here, 10 there, over a few years. There's qualified definitely US citizens looking for jobs....
techmagenta t1_j1gjrp6 wrote
It’s actually very easy to hire an H1B worker.
dinner_is_not_ready t1_j1h20ku wrote
That’s incorrect - it’s actually easier to hire someone who doesn’t require engaging a length, expensive, and frequent process with uscis
[deleted] t1_j1h116m wrote
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quettil t1_j1hy3bt wrote
> Immigration is good for a country as a whole.
It's neutral really, you can gain or lose good or bad people. Immigration is always a zero sum game.
DrQuantum t1_j1g0d39 wrote
The only problem there is the company exploiting cheap labor.
I’m not suggesting all visas are the same quality but r/technology seems to be very pro meritocracy. Its not a meeitocracy if you’re denying H1-B visas simply to benefit american workers.
Sniffy4 t1_j1g5n0k wrote
expecting everyone who works at the company to devote their entire life to work musk-style is not a really a 'meritocracy' but just exploitation
DrQuantum t1_j1g7exl wrote
Many people here constantly says they want a meritocracy and that bias in hiring doesn’t exist. Now you’re saying immigrants are stealing your jobs and they aren’t qualified either. Its just because its exploitation.
The point I am making is that if you want to address the issue, punish the companies not the H1-B visas.
This has nothing to do with immigration if you truly believe its about exploitation. The companies are doing the exploiting and people are happy to accept lower pay because there is no good way to get in here.
Sniffy4 t1_j1gdijd wrote
>Now you’re saying immigrants are stealing your jobs and they aren’t qualified either.
Baloney, please point out exactly where I said that above. In fact I am saying that companies abuse h1-b limitations to raise performance requirements to unethical levels and term that 'meritocracy'
>This has nothing to do with immigration
The threat of being uprooted with your family and forced to leave the country is a very real thing which is the whole point of the article, duh. It has *everything* to do with immigration.
simiamor t1_j1gmeh8 wrote
It sure did suck for native Americans when they were forcefully displaced and replaced by white population. I say let them feel the heat of being replaced by cheaper foreign workers because their imperial capitalist policies have had effects on all such populations everywhere directly or indirectly. That's what they get for hogging a big continent and just fucking around while the rest of the world grinded their asses and jumped obstacles to improve themselves tremendously. Every single one of those cheap foreign workers is way more qualified and knowledgeable than an average American. It's their beloved meritocratic capitalist economic system playing out just as intended, you'd think that this would compel them to address wealth inequalities and basic healthcare and readjust into the new economic system, but we all know these neanderthals will just blame people trying to improve their life by being the racists that they are.
technicalmonkey78 t1_j1h6i2c wrote
Well, North Korea seems to be a good place to begin, for what I heard.
matrixsuperstah t1_j1foaok wrote
I understand the hardship and I feel for H1-B. I have friends and colleagues in this situation. But is it not part of the understanding that it’s a temporary VISA. There should be some level of preparation for the inevitability of being sent home.
NotARedditUser3 t1_j1frwet wrote
It's very different than in many other countries.
In a lot of countries you can get a temporary residency visa, which after some years can become a permanent residency visa, and after many years you may have a way to apply for citizenship.
For example I've moved from the US to mexico; here, I have my temp residency, i've had it for 2.5 years. In 1.5 years (4 total), I can get permanent residency. A year after that, once i've had 5 years of residency total, I can apply for citizenship here, which takes roughly a year to process.
There's a very clear path and there's little chance of people being upended and sent back to a country they have no further roots in...
For example, if I was suddenly sent back to the US tomorrow... I have no home there. No job. No bank accounts there. I don't have a US cell phone. No home / address means I'd have trouble getting accounts set up for nearly anything; I'd be homeless immediately, probably wasting what cash I have on hotels trying to get things figured out. It's a horrifying proposition to send someone (back) to a country unexpectedly. Impacts their entire solvency and future.
Scrofuloid t1_j1g4hgl wrote
That's how it works in the US too, for H-1B workers -- except for the ones born in India and China.
SeattleBattle t1_j1gdyu5 wrote
86% of H1B holders in 2021 were from India and China, so that is how the system works for 17 out of 20 people.
Scrofuloid t1_j1gful9 wrote
Is that 86% of people who get H-1B visas, or 86% of people who currently are on an H-1B? If the latter, this could be a result of the long wait time for a green card for those nationalities. i.e. most people who go through the system do not have these insane wait times, but Indian and Chinese applicants are stuck in the system for much longer, and thus make up a disproportionate number of current H-1B holders.
Not that that's a good thing, of course. It's incredibly unfair to them.
SeattleBattle t1_j1gkgnb wrote
The former. 86% of new H1B visas given in 2021 went to India (74%) and China (12%). So the problem you referred to of these countries being overrepresented as H1B holders is only exacerbated by the continued heavy proportion of visas given to citizens of those two countries.
I will note that I am trusting a site called www.y-axis.com for this data though, and I've never heard of them before.
Scrofuloid t1_j1gpvap wrote
Got it. I found almost the exact same numbers on the USCIS site, except that in this case it says it includes both new and continuing cases: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/data/h-1b-petitions-by-gender-country-of-birth-fy2019.pdf
So if I'm reading this right, it looks like the latter of the two scenarios I described.
SeattleBattle t1_j1i3csx wrote
Ahh ok, I definitely could be wrong. I am not an expert on H1Bs. Thanks for doing additional research!
grain_delay t1_j1gm3ep wrote
For Indians, it can take upwards of 20 years of H1B before they get through the green card process. It is not uncommon for them to get married, buy a house, and have kids in this time. It is incredibly cruel to expect them to put their life on hold for decades. H1B folks are equally as qualified as any American worker, I personally work with a lot of them. They absolutely deserve better than the system provides to them today
matrixsuperstah t1_j1gr3px wrote
I agree with you. I’ve worked with very talented H1B holders.
ipooplogs t1_j1gwi9m wrote
You’ll still work with them, they’ll just be back in their home country
possibilistic t1_j1gxotl wrote
Where they don't contribute to our economy. We'd be fools not to have them join us.
We should get as many Indians now as we can before they stop being interested in the US.
grain_delay t1_j1iigg9 wrote
These are folks who will go on to start companies. Some of them will start the next major tech company. America loses soft power by sending them back
[deleted] t1_j1j9ukb wrote
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Cantina9001 t1_j1gybqr wrote
Those are the rules. India has way too many immigrant applications. Hence the wait. Fair is fair.
hokies314 t1_j1hjomj wrote
The path to legal citizenship for illegal immigrants is shorter than the path for legal Indians on H1B visa
RookieRider t1_j1gwatu wrote
Just because someone deserves something doesn’t mean others have to give it to them. So many other factors beed to be considered.
Sabotage00 t1_j1h4byy wrote
No, those factors fucking don't. If that person has worked for it, earned it, and proved they can keep it - then they fucking deserve it.
Fuck nationalism. Fuck regionalism. Fuck superiority complex. People are people, no matter where they are, and deserve to be treated as people.
RookieRider t1_j1hqwdl wrote
You are missing my point. I am not saying they don’t deserve it. I am saying, the world doesn’t work based on who deserves what. Wall Street execs deserved to be jailed after 2008. I rest my case.
sign_up_in_secondss t1_j1fw26r wrote
the H1B is a dual purpose visa, not a temporary visa
nazbot t1_j1gmk7o wrote
No, it’s dual intent. The visa is temporary but you can also have immigrant intent.
Compared to other visas which are only temporary.
the_mullet_fondler t1_j1gins9 wrote
Except it's a dual purpose visa (with immigrant intent).
ponderousponderosa t1_j1fpykc wrote
It's a cruel situation to live under and America should feel bad about how it takes advantage of these immigrants. This is systemic discrimination that people talk so much about at work
KSRandom195 t1_j1fxhww wrote
It’s a complicated issue.
The existence of immigrant workers drives down the wages for folks that would be able to fill those jobs locally. For instance, the current worker shortage is somewhere around 3 million people. A full two-thirds of that is from immigrants that didn’t immigrate because of new immigration policies put in place during the Trump administration. Because of that we’re now seeing an increase in wages and job mobility because there is less supply of labor for the same demand, and thus price must go up and workers have more power.
I’m not saying what he did was good, but for local workers it’s one of the fuels for the current power struggle around wages and workplace conditions that may end up improving the situation for the worker.
The same applies to H1-B visas, that are popular at large tech companies, but is designed for hiring specialists that are not available locally. Could tech companies find software engineer locally? Absolutely, could they find enough? Probably. But there would be decidedly fewer tech employees, and that would have a similar affect of less supply, which means higher wages. But with H1-B visas there is more supply, and so that depresses wages for the local employer vs if that supply wasn’t there.
Now, that leads to a fun question of why should we try to protect the wages of local employees? After all, these are global companies. The reality is that these companies chose to start or are headquartered in the US because it provides the best place to do their business. So something specific about US policy make the US best able to host these companies, and so logically those companies should be giving back profits through taxes and wages to their local employees.
So I disagree with the notion that Americans should feel bad about this program. It’s a complicated issue with lots of inputs and outputs. It’s actually easier than what some other countries do, and of course is harder than others. As long as we have nation states we will have to deal with this kind of policy issue.
ponderousponderosa t1_j1gasgk wrote
Gross. I didn't realize American was an isolationist country who protected its citizens from competition. I guess it has to be now but that's not going to put us back on top of the world. You're justifying a pretty fucked up policy that takes advantage of people in order to protect the most privileged citizens from a bit of competition. What happened to the American dream? It's still alive for immigrants...
spellbanisher t1_j1gciyp wrote
It's an incorrect understanding that assumes jobs are a zero sum game. But jobs can beget more jobs. For example, a company may wish to expand into AI. But maybe to do so competently it may need to hire at least 50 people. If it can't find enough people it might not make sense to expand into AI at all. By bringing in 25 workers, they would be creating 25 jobs for domestic workers.
Then there is the fact that immigrant workers create demand in other parts of the economy. They eat out, start businesses, buy cars, etc.
Finally, we shouldn't forget that these tech companies make massive profits. They can afford to pay all their employees very well. If domestic workers fear eroding wages, they should organize with immigrant workers instead of dividing themselves.
Fraccles t1_j1gmdkg wrote
The situation is not binary. It is not "immigrants or no immigrants". Saying a reduction of a sliding scale is the same as it being zero just confuses the issue.
You wouldn't respond to someone reducing their speed in a car with "why have you stopped?"
KSRandom195 t1_j1gkqfv wrote
I didn’t say it was a good policy. I said it was a complicated issue and gave some context as to why. I think we should be more free with many policies, but I don’t think the world is in a place we can do that yet.
We need policies to address the world we live in, not the world we wish we did
jashsayani t1_j1g3pjk wrote
The main problem here is that H1B is a Temporary visa, with option to get a Green Card down the line (decades later). Most of these workers assume that H1B (temporary visa) = being able to live in the US forever. So they get mortgages & buy homes on temporary visas and then feel entitled to be given Green Cards. I think the US needs to clearly separate Temporary Visas & Green Cards, and make it clear that H1B means they have to go back to their own country eventually. But yeah, the layoffs suck. At the same time, some of the foreign workers feeling they are entitled to Green Cards (and demanding them) is ridiculous.
chip_0 t1_j1g9ve8 wrote
Many of these workers are approved for their green cards but stuck in eternal queues. These workers were promised permanent residency at some point (with no certainty when) and base their lives around the USA. Their lives become entrenched here after a certain time, and it is no surprise that they can not (and do not) leave (see recent news about this).
The problem is in the system and not these people.
jashsayani t1_j1gb8y5 wrote
They are not promised anything. That is not how the system works. I-140 is Application for Immigrant Worker. You have just shown intent to immigrate. US is not "promising" you a Green Card. When you file I-485, you are actually applying for one. Which can be decades away. Again, US immigration is built on diversity, its not merit-based. People say its a broken system. Is its not broken. It is designed for diversity and works well as per its design.
It is only broken if you assume its merit-based. But its a diversity based system. People need to understand that.
nazbot t1_j1gmf0n wrote
It’s broken in quite a few ways.
The H1-B is basically the main visa that lets you also apply to be a permanent resident. It’s not a temporary visa - it’s a dual intent. It’s both temporary AND allows for immigration. Compared to a TN, for example, which is only temporary.
The immigration process is broken in that the application times for the green card are based on what country you were born in. So if you are from Canada it take about 1-2 for them to process your green card application. If you are from India or China it’s 10-15 years. It doesn’t even matter If you are a Canadian citizen … it’s just where you were born.
That leads to the situations where Indian workers end up stuck at bad jobs working crazy hours because of you are 7 years into your application process you have a LOT to lose. If you lose your job and don’t find another one in 60 days you basically start the clock all over again.
It shouldn’t take that long to process the applications and the consequences shouldn’t be so dire if you are let go and can’t find something else quickly.
Bad_Adam1917 t1_j1gez5n wrote
“… it’s a diversity based system. People need to understand that.”
Lol says Jash Sayani, who is either from India himself or his parents are from there, and who likely held the very same H1B at some point.
Sure buddy
RookieRider t1_j1gwlif wrote
Your reply makes no sense. He is right in saying the green card system is loosely diversity based. That’s why they have per-country limits especially in employment-based GCs. Your response neither provides evidence otherwise, nor is relevant to his point. Just a spiteful comment.
imissze90s t1_j1gkga2 wrote
Do you want a disproportionate number of immigrants coming from a particular country?
PLATYPUS_DIARRHEA t1_j1gp8hc wrote
That's the thing, they're already in the US. They've been here for years if not decades. They just don't have a green card or voting rights. You either also implement a per country cap on H-1B or remove it from green card altogether. This business of having it on the green cards (which gives immigrants their rights and bargaining power) but not on H-1B disproportionately tilts power in favor the companies.
Tech companies get to have their cake and eat it too under the current system. In other words, business as usual...
RookieRider t1_j1gwzuu wrote
Dunno why you are downvoted, most of what you said is spot on. Most of US immigration is diversity-based. Even employment-based GCs have an element of diversity in the form of per-country limits. Only investor GCs, and maybe Einstein visas are probably not diversity based. Lot of ignorant comments in the replies that still miss the point that H1B is a temporary permit. So if people choose to have kids here and buy houses, that’s their choice that they made fully aware of the chance of having to leave the country. Playing the victim card after making your choice with all the info available is just silly.
dofphoto t1_j1gif6r wrote
Genuine q: while waiting for gc with filled 485, you can get ead and advanced parole, right? While not super solid footing, you're still in us and working.
PLATYPUS_DIARRHEA t1_j1goqdl wrote
That's only once you file your I-485 and are waiting for a decision on that. It takes Indians and Chinese decades between an approved I-140 and being able to file a I-485. There's no EAD in that interval. You are beholden to your job and employer.
dofphoto t1_j1i0acu wrote
Oh I didn't know that part. Thanks for clarifying.
the_mullet_fondler t1_j1gk5nb wrote
Man this thread has made it clear redditors know absolutely nothing about US immigration
imdb_shenanigans t1_j1gajjg wrote
Your view is quite narrow in its scope. US has dual intent immigration doctrine which allows certain categories of visas ( H1B, O, K1 fiance visa) to apply for permanent residence. US does not grant PR cards before entry to the country typically as all other western nations do, so you would have to apply it once you land within it's boundaries.
Indians form the majority of H1Bs because we are immigrating in large numbers and we have the requisite skills but the green cards are limited by country. So if an H1-B is from France, he will at least have to land here and then apply for a green card? Which means H1-B has to have dual intent? See the logic? There are plenty of temporary work visas which do not have dual intent. H1-B is not one of them.
And while you are in a country, you also may want to live like a normal human being by settling down, sending your kids to school and buying property, this is all legal and allowed by law. Indian H1-Bs live with that fear and are not "entitled" as much as you are entitled to breathe air to live.
jashsayani t1_j1gbfzy wrote
Sure, you can have intent to get a Green Card. But you might not get one. Intention does not give you the right to demand one. Being eligible does not mean anything.
imdb_shenanigans t1_j1go5y0 wrote
You are enjoying a dramatic moment which is fine. I have an approved i140 and "demanding" a green card like a spoiled entitled baby that I am. But strangely no one's listening. So it appears that you can be as entitled about demanding a green card but if the law says no, it's a no. When a new law comes in and says you have it, I will have it. In both scenarios why are you getting so agitated? :)
the_mullet_fondler t1_j1gir66 wrote
But it's not a temporary visa lol it is dual purpose...
ghx16 t1_j1gf532 wrote
>At the same time, some of the foreign workers feeling they are entitled to Green Cards (and demanding them) is ridiculous.
Im surprised you're getting upvoted for saying this on reddit, when it's foreign workers taking lower income jobs the consensus here is that every human has right to permanently live wherever they need in order to have a better life, when it's middle-class jobs the ones being affected then things suddenly change
At the end of the way corporations couldn't care less about human rights, they're just nickel-and-dimming whenever they can
acroback t1_j1gsne6 wrote
Exactly, people like him are salty folks who cannot compete with tech workers and then rant like they are entitled for their jobs just because they are citizens.
PS: I am a Hiring Manager and see these things up close.
ghx16 t1_j1gu4sb wrote
Wait, so are you saying these companies are bringing talent from other parts of the world because they seriously can't find competent employees here or is it because they can't find it at the salaries they're willing to pay?
Because while I am pointing out the hypocrisy of the consensus here on reddit when it comes to immigrant workers I would also like to point out I have already seen in the past and I'm not buying that story that the talent is not out there, and that's why companies bring labor from other parts of the world, it is often just used as a loophole to get cheaper labor
acroback t1_j1h3a0a wrote
Ok, let me explain to you.
For every good policy there are ways it can be exploited. And some companies take advantage of it.
I have hired some folks on H1B and most of them are hard working honest residents who are equal if not better than local hires. Only exception were 2 who were let go. Local hires on the other hand are good to average, just one I would call really really good.
Locals and H1B are paid exactly same, no difference whatsoever. Infact some H1Bs are paid base $300k plus bonuses. Why would I approve it if they were bad or I was trying to cheap out?
This is not the norm and neither is Disney case. I hope you got the gist.
Gutotito t1_j1hchc5 wrote
>This is not the norm and neither is Disney case. I hope you got the gist.
Bullshit. We have all seen entire teams replaced by cheaper foreign labor. You're fooling precisely nobody, here.
quettil t1_j1hy88v wrote
Why shouldn't citizens be entitled to privileges in their own country/
acroback t1_j1iy5h2 wrote
Just like you don't have privilege to own home. You need to work or earn that money to afford a home.
Life is tough, we all gotta work hard for it. Just demanding a high paying job when you don't have qualifications or attitude is shithousery of umpteenth degree.
Go on tell me how tech jobs are easy and any tom dick And harry can do it with 30 days of online boot camp, I am all ears.
Looks like you and me are living in different US.
quettil t1_j1pviqq wrote
> Just like you don't have privilege to own home.
Used to do. Housing was much cheaper, people could afford to move out of from their parents much younger. We weren't competing with hedge funds and migrants for housing.
>Life is tough, we all gotta work hard for it.
Used to be much easier. Why should we work harder to compete with migrants who have no right to be here? If a country doesn't work for its own people there's no reason for it to exist.
Gutotito t1_j1hccl7 wrote
You're the problem, then; congratulations. The H1B was never intended to be used as a cost-saving measure.
acroback t1_j1gsgeo wrote
People like you blame tech workers when economy is booming - why are we letting foreign workers in, they don't spend high salaries here and take that wealth back to their home countries and then blame them when they spend money despite applying for a legal citizenship path.
It seems they are doomed to be blamed no matter what they do.
Pretty rich of you with that narrow minded view with that username.
Gutotito t1_j1hc8uk wrote
The whole program needs to be scrapped. That we lay off domestic workers and replace them with foreign ones is exactly why the program is bunk -- it was designed to help fill roles that couldn't be filled domestically; not to enrich companies by allowing them to drive down costs.
DiggoryDug t1_j1gh25c wrote
They know the requirements going into the H1B agreement. You should not make long terms plans based on a temporary permit.
H1B is being abused to bring in immigrant workers instead of building a workforce like we did 40s thrue the 60s.
Miserable_Door_3538 t1_j1habr4 wrote
Keep saying this over and over while more tech jobs move to India/Taiwan/China. The H1Bs will take their wealth back with them. You think America benefits with these high earners leaving? Tech hubs will be the new Rust Hubs. Just like Detroit and Cleveland.
DIYjackass t1_j1ggjbl wrote
*shrug* that's part of the deal
ipooplogs t1_j1gwk2q wrote
Don’t hate the playa, hate the game
andyminhho t1_j1ggo6e wrote
For those that already base their livelihoods here, not intent on leaving anytime soon, and are actively contribiting to the US economy, why not just make them citizens?
ipooplogs t1_j1gwmbu wrote
Because rules are rules
Winterfell_Ice t1_j1hi6ej wrote
I work in the tech feild so don't expect any sympathy from me. These workers come in and take jobs that were held by American citizens because the companies want to save some bucks. Disney was the first to really go all in by firing it's tech teams and then telling them they have to train their replacments if they want any type of severence.
A job that would normally pay out 100K a year is being given to the H1-B workers for less than half taht at more like 40K. It's great for the companies that save big on salaries but screws the American work force. Now they're learning just how disposable they really are. Have a plesant flight back to India.
tinyhorsesinmytea t1_j1hpdv4 wrote
Train your replacements if you want your severance? That’s cold as fuck and should most definitely not be legal.
Winterfell_Ice t1_j1ja3fm wrote
you can look it up but back then tehy not only had to train their replacemnts if they wanted any severence they also had to sign a nondisclosure agreement to make sure Disney didn't look bad.
kextatic t1_j1hkmpl wrote
The layoffs affecting Americans and H1B holders are the natural consequence of a remote and mobile workforce. Why pay Silicon Valley salaries for people to work from their homes? I don't hear about mass layoffs in Delhi. These jobs are moving on just like hardware manufacturing did years ago. Blaming the H1B visa holder is missing the bigger picture.
Hellknight86 t1_j1i95tp wrote
Jesus, these people are getting screwed by the system as much as anyone else, not their fault they are offered opportunities. Foreign workers have as much a right to work as everyone else racist.
Winterfell_Ice t1_j1j9vhf wrote
who mentioned race as a factor? I didn't so therefore how can I be "racist" I hold the companies that do it, the politicians that enable it and the scum that profit from it responsible not the workers themselves. I could care less if the worker is Indian, Cambodian or south African all I care about is the fact that an American worker who did everything right, got their education, got their industry certs, put in the time and got the experience to be paid a 6-figure salary has gotten screwed by the country that’s supposed to be on their side. There should be a much lower number of H1-B workers allowed and only for jobs that are in very high demand in scientific or technical fields not hotels and service industry jobs. I want to see our American work force put first for a change instead of competing on a global scale with laws that tip it in the foreigner’s favor.
11fingerfreak t1_j1kppsr wrote
H1-B workers are essentially indentured servants. Well paid indentured servants, but indentured servants all the same. They’re usually hired because they can be compelled to work for less pay than an equally qualified citizen and forced to put up with things a citizen would never tolerate. It’s a purely exploitative system designed to play would-be immigrants against people who live here. And it works exactly as expected. The hiring company either saves money by underpaying them or by making them work twice as hard in hopes of not getting deported.
The best part is when someone on a H1-B thinks they are so much better than US citizens. Much like the folks who serve as offshore labor, some portion of them believe they were brought on board because of being the best. That’s not how Capitalism works. Whoever can be exploited better gets hired… unless they are a white male. Then it’s anybody’s guess as to whether they’re qualified at all 🤷🏾♂️ (some are… but some of y’all know perfectly well you bring nothing to the table aside from being pink lol)
[deleted] t1_j1g7edf wrote
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[deleted] t1_j1h9qlz wrote
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Gutotito t1_j1hbzdu wrote
>The fact that keeping my son in the country he’s born in is dependent on my job is ridiculous
Which is why it's not true. Your son was born in America; that makes him a citizen.
RookieRider t1_j1hs552 wrote
Yes it does. But if the parents lose their visa, they need to go back. In this scenario, they either take their kids with them, or probably the government enters them into the foster care system (not sure of this). Either way, she was just playing the victim card. They know all the complications that can arise because of their visa status. But they still decide to make long term plans while here on temporary visas. Hence the consequences.
imissze90s t1_j1icfom wrote
But the parents have to leave and the child is a minor with no other family in the U.S.
[deleted] t1_j1hk8oa wrote
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QuestionableAI t1_j1ivq5c wrote
Real fucking shame there are no laws, policies, or procedures that might be used to investigate, charge, fine, and solve some of the shit corporations get away with ... oh, wait ... is this the land of laws or just filthy rich buggers raw dogging everyone else?
99odysseus t1_j1j84ul wrote
If you know how people get H1-B visas then you will hate every single H1-B candidates, so much freaking loopholes that Indians created and took advantage of that and so did all companies that added every penny back into their pockets.
Miserable_Door_3538 t1_j1lbb4z wrote
The laws were created by congress that the US citizens voted for. Not some Indians in Hyderabad.
[deleted] t1_j1jqzko wrote
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UAPMystery t1_j23xjyw wrote
serious question:
why in the world would these companies have H1B visas work 100% remote in the US
How in the world does that make any sense?
If these tech companies can actually innovate 100% remote just have them in India/Asia/Eastern Europe etc etc
SwitchShift t1_j1jmm6g wrote
In this thread: people not realizing that a news story about rules working as expected can still show terrible things happening to people — the discussion should be whether the rules are appropriate. Yes H1-B visas are “temporary”, but they are also dual-intent and one of the most popular ways to legally immigrate permanently: a carrot dangled in front of foreign workers to keep them compliant. It is still horrible to toss people aside — the immigration and job system has told these people: maybe I will let you build your life here, but maybe I won’t, try your best to please me and find out. Invest years of your work and life into building this country, and maybe we’ll let you keep the life you build here.
No one is arguing that this isn’t how the system works, but this is the cause of many of its ills! If the system wasn’t temporary, the people with the visas wouldn’t need to work harder than domestic workers for less. The fact that this can happen is why H1-B workers have less power, and why all labor thus has less power overall. All of you cheering the workers being sent back — those jobs aren’t now available for domestic workers, they just don’t exist. Every remaining H1-B worker knows that the ice is thin; they should work even harder for even less because the loss of job means not only the loss of income, but potentially uprooting their whole lives. This is just another benefit for the companies doing the layoffs, not a benefit for any domestic workers.
Perhaps this means that fewer people will apply for H1-B visas to reduce competition for American workers? It’s possible, but we already have more people waiting on these visas than getting them. Those smart enough to see how we treat people bringing their skills to the country may stay home, which may be great for their home country, not so much for the domestic US industry if we now have more skilled workers building more competitive companies in other countries. Those leaving could very well could take their skills and experience and bring their job with them, out of the country.
This is all to say: labor is connected. What is bad for some labor is bad for all labor.
Besides all of this, the H1-B workers I know are some of the most intelligent and hardworking individuals I know, and get paid at the same level as domestic workers. It’s funny that the arguments here are either that a more skilled domestic worker should have the job and do it better, or that the foreign worker is working too hard for too little. Which is it? Are they not skilled or productive enough or too skilled and productive?
jeffinRTP t1_j1fmyoq wrote
In the the thch industry lays off these workers then in a few years they need to hire again will the foreign workers be willing to return? What happens if these workers start businesses in their home countries what happens to the tech industry in the US.
btmalon t1_j1fq906 wrote
Trust me they will come. The whole reason they are there is that the work visa dangles a path to US citizenship. But that path is incredibly tedious and you’re basically an indentured servant until it is approved.
Avennite t1_j1ft2hr wrote
Just finished going through this. It takes forever and you're basically a high paid indentured servant.
btmalon t1_j1fu5z3 wrote
Its no small feat, Congrats! My fiance is a naturalized citizen and worked at a company that procured the visas for companies, so she exposed me to the system.
bengringo2 t1_j1g07fa wrote
Ah, The Team USA Snoo makes sense. Lol
Jk
imissze90s t1_j1gkk6f wrote
It's hard to feel sympathy when most are making six figures, more than the overwhelming majority of Americans.
dinner_is_not_ready t1_j1h1n21 wrote
On this thread I have heard complains about both how H1b workers are cheap and how H1b workers are highly paid
BadonkaDonkies t1_j1hue5f wrote
So they are taking away jobs because they are cheaper labor than citizens, but higher paid than most people? How does that work?
FoggyBottom4u t1_j1fnvvo wrote
Immigration is good for a country as a whole. What's lacking is oversight. Withe these kind of visas as well as illegal immigration. There's widespread abuse of H1B visas. Even at my small-ish Midwestern company, US citizens are being replaced by cheaper overseas workers on some kind of visa. Maybe good for them, but it sucks for US citizens.