What do y'all think will be the future of American animation given the recent cancelations and flops?

Submitted by bakerspice24 t3_10czafp in television

So I'm really curious with this community thinks of this question given the events of last year with HBO as well as Velma's utter flop, Netflix's most recent cancellation of Inside Job, and Paramount pulling the plug on Pantheon, one of my favorite new animated shows, even after the second season was completed so they could write it off on their taxes.

Personally, I've begun to feel really pessimistic. It's getting harder and harder for me to get invested in American animation when I feel like a lot of shows that are coming out have uncertain lifespans and many of them are canceled on serious cliffhangers; this is even worse when they're originals and there's no source material to fall back on to finish the story such as Invincible or many Japanese animes. It's been incredibly sad to find a show that I absolutely fall in love with and then never get to see how it ends.

It also seems like a lot of the more prominent animation makers, such as DreamWorks and Disney/Pixar, are telling stories that I don't feel as invested in anymore since it's mainly fairy tales and superheroes. I've always felt that animation isn't just a medium to be relegated to kids stories but is a medium that can tell stories that otherwise would not be possible in a live-action setting. I see this a lot in Japanese animation and one thing that I will always appreciate about it is the diversity of storytelling that exists in that market. That's not to say there can't be outliers such as Into the Spiderverse, Primal, and many of the shows that existed in the Cartoon Network Renaissance, but I feel like in the current market a lot of those shows wouldn't ever get the lifespans to evolve like they did in the past.

I don't know if that's because a lot of the powers behind producing US animation have just resigned themselves to not compete with Japan unless it's a safe bet like a Disney or Pixar movie or because they're just chasing their next golden ticket show and unless it's a smash hit out the gate it gets axed. But I think that's a really dangerous logic because then animators will just stop working with a certain company if they feel like they can never trust the work they make will ever get used.

I don't really know what the future's hold which is why I'm curious with everybody else here thinks. Personally, I really wish that more mediums would follow the Kickstarter model like Critical Role did but I just continue to be disheartened by the fact that nine times out of 10 I'm going to probably watch an anime when given the choice and if not then I'm just rewatching Futurama until the revival 🚀

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SuperSyrias t1_j4ioktz wrote

i just hope they stop "reinventing" popular characters around low effort "diversity" ideas.

make original stuff that has diversity, dont reboot a show thats was popular a decade ago for specific reasons and then take out those reasons in an effort to modernize them.

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cchiu23 t1_j4iuda0 wrote

>dont reboot a show thats was popular a decade ago for specific reasons

Having a mainly white cast...?

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Ssme812 t1_j4ir3f1 wrote

  • Wait WHAT! Pantheon got canceled 😭. That should was amazing IMO. So what happens to S2 that was produced already.
  • I liked Inside Job but not really upset it got canceled.
  • Velma needs to be canceled. Just garbage. Never disliked a series so quickly.
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bakerspice24 OP t1_j4is8f8 wrote

Yeah so they are completely canceling Pantheon from everything I've seen so far. Here's the link. They're doing what Warner Brothers did with a lot of their unreleased IPs where as long as they never marketed them in any way, they can just not put out the finished product and write it off on their taxes. Warner Brothers never releasing the Batgirl movie is a great example of this tax tactic. It's absolutely infuriating, though, because there is a finish season 2 out there but we will never get to see it

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cmain88z t1_j4jqi5p wrote

I had just started pantheon and was on episode 4 when it disappeared :( They could have at least warned it was going away.

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bakerspice24 OP t1_j4jqzrf wrote

I was watching it on high dive but you could probably just pirate it

Also it's based off of a collection of stories by Ken Liu called "The Hidden Girl and other short stories" if you want to keep reading the source material

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SteelmanINC t1_j4j8xuc wrote

Virtually every one of these new adult cartoons are incredibly bad. I like animated shows and want to like them but it is painfully obvious why they are getting cancelled.

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bakerspice24 OP t1_j4jdvw0 wrote

Can you give some examples of shows you tried and didn't enjoy? I'm curious if we had any different experiences with any of them. I know on some my tastes are more forgiving than others, especially on comedic animation and shows that are appealing to younger audiences, but shows like Primal and Pantheon genuinely blew me away, Pantheon especially so.

I'm gonna gush a bit but it was based off short fiction by one of my favorite authors and explored topics that felt relevant and frightening in an approachable manner.

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SteelmanINC t1_j4jvpmq wrote

I tried inside job and thought it was a really cool premise but they did really bad on the execution of it, disenchanted again seems like it could have been decent but the actual dialogue and writing sucked, I tried that one tuca and Lola or something like that and was not a fan. Velma was one of the worst things I’ve ever seen. Paradise PD I also wasn’t a fan of.

I haven’t seen pantheo so I can’t say how that was but I will say primal was good. I didn’t love it in the sense that I’m not a huge fan of the no talking thing but I could tell there was real quality there and did enjoy episodes. It’s not something I can binge watch but every once in a while I go back to it for another episode. Amazon also has decent ones with invincible being really really good and vox machina being half way between mediocre and good. Pretty much all the Netflix and HBO ones that I’ve seen are pretty awful with the exception of primal though.

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bakerspice24 OP t1_j4jxox1 wrote

Honestly it sounds like we mostly have similar tastes. I really can't stand TV with shock factor as a major element so most of what Netflix put out wasn't my cup of tea and I feel like Big Mouth really set a weird standard a lot of TV tried to emulate. Also I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought Paradise PD wasn't just a dumpster fire.

But I think your reply really hits the nail on the head of my feelings that US animation, currently, is mostly just seen as a medium for kids, comedy, and superheroes. Good shows can still emerge from those fields (Futurama is my favorite example for comedy, Over the Garden Wall for kids, and Invincible for superheroes) but I don't care for the kids shows anymore and most of the comedy isn't as smart as some of my favorite Futurama moments.

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Yelebear t1_j4iptfn wrote

I can see a small movement away from established streaming services, and an increase with self published cartoons (like on YouTube).

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gopowersgo t1_j523k5m wrote

This is the way. There are people working tirelessly, right now, on making "product", "content", call it whatever.

Most may be junk, but eventually, something will stick. But it will come from the independent scene.

It's possible some Renaissance may come from major studios. But major studios are not producing good track records as of late, regardless of the medium or genre. Live-action, animation, you name it.

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r_lucasite t1_j4j1cif wrote

Probably nothing beyond a bit of refocusing with what goes where, Cartoons have been getting cancelled since they've been on TV. Today's Pantheon and Infinity Train is last decade's Generator Rex and Symbionic Titan. Good shows will sometimes get their run, good shows may sometimes not.

Edit: I always feel like people forget this, but Gravity Falls was created with just two seasons in mind specifically because of how often cartoons were cancelled. It was just way less noticeable when shows were episodic so they'd simply just end and the creator wasn't on twitter to talk about not getting renewed.

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InternalParadox t1_j4kem5n wrote

Honestly, it seems like the streaming bubble is bursting, thus the implosion at HBOMAX, and multiple critically acclaimed series being cancelled at all American streaming services. It’s hard to predict the status of any type of scripted series (reality shows are cheaper to produce).

On the other hand, streaming services global reach has funded animation production from all over the world. Netflix has adaptations of comics from the Philippines, Korean Webtoons, and Chinese novels, Irish animated films and French series. Japan is producing more anime than ever because of funding from international streaming markets.

American studios Titmouse and Frederator have a few shows in production, if I understand correctly. Video game adaptations are becoming more popular (Arcane got a lot of acclaim).

Invincible and Vox Machina have been renewed for multiple seasons.

Animated spinoffs of major American properties like Star Wars and Star Trek seem to be doing pretty well (I quite liked Star Trek Prodigy, personally. Lower Decks is more of a mixed bag, but not bad).

I think there’s reason for animation fans to be optimistic, but there will be a lot of bumps as streaming services figure out their finances going forward.

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gopowersgo t1_j522zb3 wrote

There is a future in American animation, and it is strong.

And some of the biggest additions to American animation will most likely come from companies you've never heard of.

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Legitimate_Ad8347 t1_j4ioo6j wrote

Disney still produces animation and Pixer too. So I'm not worry. Netflix and HBO maybe aren't the best places for animation.

Those services will never prioritize animation like they do the other stuff.

Broadcast tv and streams still see animation for kids.

Which is why we should all continue to support Cartoon Network.

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bakerspice24 OP t1_j4irr42 wrote

That is true for Disney. I really enjoyed Amphibia and Gravity Falls but I was distraught over their treatment of Owl House and their obsession with live action remakes of old IPs. I did think it was very satisfying to watch them realize how popular the last season of Owl House was after they drastically shortened it's lifespan but that's just another example of how popular something can become if you give it time to grow, which I'm nervous bigger studios aren't as committed to now. I do like the Pixar animation but I found myself less and less invested in the stories being told as I've gotten older.

I do love Cartoon Network, they gave us so many good shows, but I don't know if something like Over the garden Wall or Steven Universe would get greenlit/long lifespans currently (I think how they treated Close Enough is a great example of their current behavior) and I'm frustrated that the show they probably put the most effort into recently was Teen Titans Go, a show where one episode was specifically dedicated to how none of the male characters could get anything done because they were too busy getting turned on by Raven's legs 🤢😵.

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slumvillain t1_j4iyysi wrote

I don't have any hope for the visual medium of story telling moving forward if I can be honest.

Studios/Streaming services have learned that people are still gonna pay monthly fees to watch the garbage they put out. They have no incentive to change because if it's garbage, there's outrage and memes and it drives people to talk about it, going viral. If it's good then a bunch of people automatically hate it for taking over their feeds, outrage..memes. full circle.

Studios ain't gonna take on original properties unless they can grab actors that have attached fan bases to them. (Oh that chris Pratt has x amount of followers on IG, he's perfect to advertise our movie to a good demographic, he's hired)

Movies and animation are no longer propelled by its actual content, but by the content it can generate on social media.

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bakerspice24 OP t1_j4j21yk wrote

Very true, I see this as one of the prime reasons for the shift from professional voice actors to celebrities in voice roles; Lion King was a great example of this and it mostly leads to these celebrities phoning it in for the money then genuinely being invested in the project

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