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RoChambeauxPDX t1_j8zjron wrote

Sure would be nice if we could evolve into a keystone species.

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[deleted] t1_j8zl2xb wrote

I'm a big fan of post10 on Youtube. He just goes around clearing culverts around the US and often deals with beaver dams, though he does admit they are beneficial to the ecoysystem, they just can't block culverts because they cause floods on roads.

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imac849 t1_j8zlv0z wrote

Just don't make em angry

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r_a_butt_lol t1_j8zu51f wrote

Fun fact: Beavers will build a dam over speakers playing the sound of running water.

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McMeanface t1_j8zudqo wrote

I just love that beavers hear running water and immediately think ABSOLUTELY NOT

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Ignitus1 t1_j8zvy4s wrote

“Important to ecosystems” is a claim full of survivorship bias. The species damaged by beaver activity probably aren’t around anymore.

We always talk about ecosystems as if they’re meant to be static. Ecosystems, just like the living things that inhabit them, are ever-changing. They’re not meant to be static or permanent.

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saxywarrior t1_j907jvs wrote

Replying to RoChambeauxPDX (#1,851,816)

The species beavers disrupted died or evolved. There are plenty of species humans are keystones for: dogs, cats, pigeons, rats, etc.. The problem is we definitely change the environment dramatically more than any other species and kill off way to many "competitors".

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Dangerous_Muscle7032 t1_j90glje wrote

The restoration of riparian ecosystems are one of the best ways to remedy desertification and water table subsidation. Beavers work for free everyday/night doing just that.

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Mammoth-Mud-9609 t1_j90q5fj wrote

The role of different types of keystone species; predators, builders and mutualists in changing or maintaining the habitat around them. Removing the keystone species or a group of other species may damage the habitat, but it may be better to focus efforts on preserving the habitat rather than individual species. - https://youtu.be/os_pkbGrf3s

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zoolztool t1_j918zak wrote

Unfortunately I've tried explaining this sort of thing to people in western pa where there is still some wild beavers, but most people are more interested in either hunting them or having their dogs hunt them. You try and say, "they are important for the ecosystem", doesnt matter because people see them as threatening the value of their property. And to them that's the ultimate importance.

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mrb783 t1_j91bhuk wrote

Yeah, they're pretty dammed important.

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mbeards85 t1_j91lflh wrote

"He had come to know beaver for what they truly were—engineers, family-oriented home builders. He'd read that most of the cities in Europe were founded by beaver. That beaver had first felled the trees along the rivers and dammed them up. The rising water killed more
trees and when the food was gone and the beaver had no more bark to chew they left. The dams eventually broke apart, and the water drained and left large clearings along the rivers where the beaver had cut down all the trees. Early man came along and started cities where the clearings lay. Cities like London and Paris were founded and settled first by beaver." Excerpt from Brian's Return by Gary Paulsen

I remember reading this book and thinking that this was the coolest thing.

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Skipaspace t1_j91od2m wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#1,851,924)

I understand the purpose of roads. But the road is man made. So that road benefits us. The dam benefits a whole ecosystem.

Does he clear what he does with the forest and game commission?

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Skipaspace t1_j91ompi wrote

Replying to doomgiver98 (#1,854,136)

You are absolutely correct.

But I want to be one of thr animals that fill and adapt.

Also, humans are causing it. There will be a lot of suffering for humans and animals...we should probably try to limit as much suffering as possible and not actively contribute to it.

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Cavemanjoe47 t1_j91u6oy wrote

Beavers flood areas so they can reach the trees they like to eat, particularly aspens up north. Most trees and plants can't handle being flooded. Anywhere they're non-native, they're basically pests, just look at Argentina.

This article reads like it was written by either a 12-year-old or Microsoft Explorer's shitty attempt at an AI.

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zjelco t1_j91v1o1 wrote

They even keep away filthy Orcs with their dams.

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Jackalodeath t1_j91z1r3 wrote

Replying to McMeanface (#1,852,736)

It's a somewhat similar reaction to our aversion to certain frequency noises; just with a different result.

Take "horror" movies for example; you know how a vast majority have violins/violas/etc playing a certain cacophonous note, gradually building in intensity until a climax (right before jumpscares for instance.) Or a monster will have a somewhat high-pitched "shriek."

The sounds are typically (not always) designed pretty similar to the frequencies emitted by a crying baby, which we're "hardwired" to seek out/identify.

A majority of folks are moved by the sound of a wailing babe in some form, whether it be general irritation to invoking sympathy. We're just at a stage where we can resist the urge to immediately act upon it, but if you can hear, you're still succinctly aware it's happening.

Beavers have a few other habits that drive them to dam it; most notably the habit of eating the bark/limbs of trees, and piling the less-nutritious, "dead" bits of wood into piles. Pack those piles with mud/sediment, as they grow it becomes relatively structurally sound. Very similar to "primitive" human dwellings, how quaint.

Eat bark in one area for long enough, you'll have to travel out further from home (safety), for fresh bark; they're not exactly graceful on land, but nimble as fuck underwater. Very, very few of their predators stand a chance in Hell catching them in water.

Let evolution and learning do its thing for a few centuries, and beavers realized packing their leftovers and mud around a certain sound - uneven, burbling water - it'll stop, and the water that was running to make said sound starts to well up/flood the area it was coming from, giving it more range and easy escape routes to forage over wider areas.

A side effect of those piles is they typically end up raising slightly above water level, leaving a pocket of well-insulted air inside. As the structures settle and become more structurally sound, the area becomes surrounded by water on some or all sides, which makes it far easier to escape a predator while out and about - they are rodents after all, and rodents are the meatballs of nature in terms of the food chain. Think of it as building a studio apartment with an entrance only accessible through a moat, and you're one of only a few world-class swimmers in the neighborhood.

Wood also floats pretty well, and due to further adaptions - namely having two sets of lips, one in front and one behind their iron-reinforced buckteefs - it's extremely efficient for transporting said wood/food back home.

Unlike most other rodents, this relative safety of dam life finds them being more "monogamous," having much smaller litters compared to their rodent brethren, and they actually spend the time/energy to raise/teach their offspring instead of always worrying about getting eaten. Dam building is instinctual to a point, but practice makes perfect; you can tell the difference between a youngin's dam and an elder beaver's dam.

Another thing to note; you know how beavers chew down trees? They're not eating the trees' innards like one would think; most the time, they're bringing the good stuff too high to reach - young, tender, nutritious limbs - down to them. The innards of most trees are akin to eating nothing but celery, while the bark/newly formed limbs are like celery with ranch or peanut butter; more nutrient dense. Granted they have to basically "chew their cud" the hard way to get the most out of it, it's still better than the hard, "dead" innards. They also seem to know exactly where to chisel away at said trees to get them to fall towards a body of water for a quick escape in case the sound attracts unwanted attention^_^

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otclogic t1_j924t9n wrote

Replying to Mammoth-Mud-9609 (#1,854,898)

> The role of different types of keystone species; predators, builders and mutualists in changing or maintaining the habitat around them.

Beavers I can accept as a Keystone species, but I would think that at least one other animal on that list would prefer Tacatè or Miller.

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Ignitus1 t1_j925eag wrote

Replying to PicardTangoAlpha (#1,858,528)

It’s not hard to imagine that a species known for altering the environment would have an impact on the other species in that environment.

Besides, what sort of research would you expect to find? How is the fossil record going to show definitively that one species pushed another to extinction over a long period of time?

These interactions are inevitable in an ecological system.

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cuerdo t1_j92vbvi wrote

Humans will also be credited for being keystone of a ecosystem containing a great diversity of radioactive cockroaches.

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Northviewguy t1_j938r0i wrote

Canada was built on the Fur Trade and the Beaver remains a national symbol, on the reverse of every 5 cent piece.

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NorthernerWuwu t1_j96xqdm wrote

Well, beneficial to some and detrimental to others. We tend to see wetlands as ecologically important though.

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CosmicBearclaw t1_j9e8m3m wrote

They are also attracted to blood in the water, particularly from diarrhea.

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