There is no short cut to getting good in the trees and jumping off cliffs. You have to ski a lot and then ski some more, get really good, and then take that into the woods. Once you get in the woods, take things very slowly. Ski in the woods conservatively for a very long time, many seasons. Progress slowly. Remember, even if you follow this path, and get good enough to rip through the trees, you are still gambling every run in the woods. It takes a certain type of crazy to ski aggressively in the woods. All it takes is a split second, wrong decision, hidden rock, branch, tree root to cause a serious, life altering or ending injury. Don't be a hero.

Hey thanks I appreciate the concern & feedback. I’m comfortable understanding my abilities and managing my own risks. I’m looking for instruction.

That was instruction. Skiing in tree and off cliffs is no fucking joke.

Thanks for your concern!

They're not kidding. The best way to learn to ski in the woods is to be fully competent on regular trails. If the tree run you are looking at was clear of trees, but wall to wall moguls, could you rip it confidently? Not just get down it / survive, but ski it hard & well? That'll probably be when you are ready to start getting off trail. Find places with low angle intermediate glades and practice there until you move on to harder things.

#1 piece of tree skiing advice - never look at the trees. You go where you look, so just keep looking for the spaces between the trees.

Thanks for this answer I know they are right. But I’m really not looking for advice I’m looking for an instructor. I ski off piste. I ski 3-4 days a week in the winter. I take trips out west. I boot back and ski back country. I ski steeps and I love getting worked on hard, hard moguls. I’m heading to Japan (their policy permitting) this winter for two weeks to ski in Hokkido and hopefully a tour of Fuji.

But it feels silly to, like, say that here because it kinda moves me further away from the question I’m asking which is really a simple one - can I find off books instruction? I believe there is always room to improve and I’d love to make sure my form is super solid. A bunch of people ski with garbage form.

So idk. I just want instruction dude. You know? I didn’t post that question to debate the value of it or be gatekept away from it.

I half expected it tho. This sub can def be kinda judgy and toxic, so that’s on me for posting it anyway.

Lol ok rant over

I'm picking up what you are putting down, but I'm going to assume that most are thinking that you could be overestimating your capabilities, which is dangerous. Most people who ski at the level you are looking for instruction at are not instructors. That said, nothing magical happens when you get in the trees w/r/t skill & technique. Powder, crud, hardpack and ice all ski the same in the trees as they do out on the trails. A decent mogul line will require quicker turns than a lot of tree runs, so if you can ski bumps well, you should be fine in the woods as long you can avoid the trees.

It's tough to give a direct answer to your question, but here's the best I've got: head out to Jackson and scan the tram line for broke rippers who are fighting for scraps to be able to afford to spend the winter ski bumming and offer them $$ to let you follow them around and give you tips. Closer to home, keep an eye out for the best skiers at your home mountain. Try to catch a chair with one and chat them up. Take a couple of runs with them and get some tips.

And if you are skiing in the backcountry, definitely take the aiare avy 1 course sooner rather than later.

Hokkido's a bucket list item for me. Hope it works out for you this winter! I'm very jealous.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think most instructors have deals with their home mountain that doesn't allow them to take private clients there. But they are sometimes willing to get around that by skiing at a different mountain. So if you have an instructor you already like, you could ask them to do that.

Finding more advanced instructors is harder, for sure. A couple of my friends have had some luck with an advanced backcountry ski course. Not exactly what you're looking for but might be worth checking out? Sorry I can't give a more specific recommendation.

This is helpful, thanks. It's kind of what I figured - I'd have to bring an instructor elsewhere with me.

And I think maybe that second part is key too - there just might not be much instruction can do at this point. I think it's mostly tailored towards less advanced skiers.

Ski instruction can definitely feel like "and then you draw the rest of the owl" once you get to a certain level. There's always more to learn! Seems like an unmet need in the marketplace.

Apologies for appearing toxic. I read your post and the 'three years' skiing stuck with me. I was concerned for your safety.

Background: grew up skiing, became a ski instructor in my teens. Grew up skiing in the east and skied out west a number of times. Personally jealous you can get out and ski where you have. (Check out skiing in NZ when you can)

I spent my younger years stupidly racing through trees - younger body, more resilient, more bangs, fewer injuries. I can't imagine doing what I did as a kid in my thirties. I was able to work on my form and the art of skiing as an instructor (not in the trees) with high-grade pros teaching technical sessions.

For trees: there is no rhythm in turning like there is in the open except for a few glorious turns once in a while; beware of branches (one caught me in the face because it was pointing at me and I could not see it - it thankfully did not go through my eye); know the snow cover and how deep the snow is; know the terrain; know the conditions (powder vs hard pack); be ready to avoid anything at any time - be light on your skis; know how to get yourself out of a tree well; know when not to go into the trees.

For cliffs: know the landing; know the snow; know how to land in deep power (lean back and use your butt to absorb the momentum); how to land on hard pack (don't do the above).

This comes from years of experience and (thankfully) no broken bones or being stranded on a mountain overnight. When in doubt - don't do it!! I doubt lessons from someone could properly convey this... best bet, buddy-up with some ski bums and learn from them.

Again, this is no fucking joke.

3-4 days a week in the winter!!! can you be my instructor? i go out like maybe 2-3 times per winter. I have been riding for a very long time only in the Icecoast. I have learned the hard way just how much trees can hurt. I literally hit the tiniest of trees going like maybe .5mph. Peed blood for weeks because of the injury to kidney. I still hit the trees, but have way more respect for what's involved.

With instructors, what everyone else already said you can find one on the slopes but would need to convince them to do private lessons which is certainly against most resort rules.

There are instructors that will take groups out to the back country and practice what you are looking for. Check out : http://www.killingtonmountainguides.com/

Super helpful thanks. I’m registered for some avi stuff too. I just want to learn how to hit jumps better. When I was younger I’d learn jumps and drops the hard way but I’d like to reduce falls these days.

Re: days/ week - I negotiated 4day work weeks with my employer. Cram a few sunrise/sunset skins in there and it turns into an awesome winter