Out of stater driving in Vermont

Submitted by reinhart_menken t3_10gzfl3 in vermont

So we’re thinking of going to Bolton to stay for a couple weeks to a month, so I can go to the slopes and snowboard. We’re driving up from Virginia, where it never really snows much, when it does salt is poured and it pretty quickly melts or gets plowed in urban areas.

We have a rear wheel drive 2008 Toyota Matrix with all weather wheels, and slid out a bit in Pennsylvania last weekend on light snow, granted we were going a bit too fast (40-50). So the girlfriend is pretty concerned about driving around in Vermont where it would snow a lot more, on our front wheel drive, on all weather tires. I think we’ll be fine if we drive slow, but I could wrong.

Do you think it’ll be fine? Should we get snow tires or chain? Or do drive slower than in the summer? I mean I feel like a whole state of people must still go about their business in the snow just fine somehow but maybe there’s extra driving precautions we should take in Vermont that we normally wouldn’t in the summer.

Thanks!

Edit: front wheel drive not rear.

Edit2: after seeing the comments here and consulting a friend I remembered was local in Vermont, I'll be getting some Nokian snow tires.

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Nickmorgan19457 t1_j55le7g wrote

Get snow tires

Drive the speed limit

Get snow tires

If there’s a local in front of you going less than the speed limit leave plenty of space and go their speed. They probably know something you don’t Get snow tires

Buy a good, long snow brush and scraper

Get snow tires

EDIT: get snow tires EDIT2: Reddit hates formatting.

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WhatTheCluck802 t1_j56q01u wrote

Could you kindly share whether or not you believe OP needs to acquire snow tires, your answer is unclear. 😆

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j55v83a wrote

Sounds good. I asked a local friend and now I'm looking at getting snow tires. But yeah definitely go slow. We do snow enough for us to need brush and scraper, so have that lol XD Cheers appreciate the list.

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mmartino03 t1_j55kbj7 wrote

You'll need snow tires to get up the Bolton access road; its steep, long and windy. Don't be that guy with out of states plates who's holding up traffic because you can't get up the hill.

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j55uy97 wrote

Good to know, asked a friend who said the same thing about Bolton access road. Definitely don't want to be that guy. Cheers.

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siltanator t1_j5a3ksy wrote

And do not for the love of god slow down going uphill. DO NOT DRIVE SLOW UPHILL. Fucking step on it.

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lavransson t1_j567ga7 wrote

>Don't be that guy with out of states plates who's holding up traffic because you can't get up the hill.

LOL, that was me maybe 6 years ago, see my other comment that I wrote before reading yours.

I am very very sorry.

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mmartino03 t1_j568zqz wrote

Ha! No worries man. I don’t think I was one of those angry locals stuck behind you that day!

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lavransson t1_j56alle wrote

Thanks, I am mostly laughing at myself.

I was able to get up the hill in the morning, the road was pretty clear, but going down at night was terrifying. It got warm in the afternoon, enough to melt some snow, then the melt got frozen later on when I drove down, so it was like ice skating downhill.

So, I joined the chorus of people advising the OP to get appropriate tires, especially if he's going to Bolton!

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xoxofeebzz t1_j56l7ur wrote

I remember in my youth our car with snow tires was skidding up to Bolton, all the kids hopped out and hitched a ride the rest of the way

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j56suya wrote

Getting some snow tires. I forgot to ask, are we talking like consecutive steep up and downs like 1-2 car lengths up and then 1-2 cars down like a little hill, or we talking like a long-ish continuous 30 yard down 30 yard up? I'm fine with either I just want to know how freaked out my girlfriend is going to be in the passenger seat and how much calming down or not bringing her I need to do lol.

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rockmeamedeus t1_j57om2h wrote

The Bolton valley access road is about 5 miles. It varies from kinda steep to really steep

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nickdaq t1_j599n0s wrote

Its uphill the whole way. You're pretty much driving halfway up the mountain

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ChallengerShaker2014 t1_j55hg8t wrote

I am more concerned you think your Matrix is rear wheel drive. They were all Front Wheel Drive.

Drive with caution, slow down on straights and not in turns, you should be fine.

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advamputee t1_j55m0te wrote

Fun fact: the Matrix was actually offered in AWD! So they aren’t all FWD, but I would definitely be impressed by a RWD Matrix.

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j55hm7i wrote

Not my car, so I went with answer I got when I asked (partner's car). Fair enough. Thanks!

Edit: partner's car.

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BrokenAsFu t1_j55idla wrote

Uhm, even a some short googling will tell you it's only front wheel drive or all wheel drive.

So idk what kinda redneck bullshit you pulled off that make that happen.

To solve this right now, did your ass end wiggle out from infront of you or did you loose control from the front end?

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ChallengerShaker2014 t1_j55iq6z wrote

FWD cars if you lift off the gas in a turn the back end will slide out, which is likely what you did in PA. Like I said, slow before you are turning, you should be good in the Bolton area.

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j55yiis wrote

Well in PA I was on a very narrow road - think backcountry road in a mountain, or going to State parks, except this was open farmland. I was already driving further toward the outside of my lane so oncoming cars would have room, but this car came in fast on a turn and I made I guess too quick an adjustment under too fast a speed (40-50) and it slid out sideways slightly. Fortunately was able to recover and continue on my way.

But yeah, slow and steady. And it seems like I'm getting snow tires :) Thanks.

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mistahboogs t1_j55l94c wrote

You do not have a rwd Toyota Matrix

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j55vdf8 wrote

It appears I do not, well my partner doesn't :p

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Kimberly802 t1_j57n3jq wrote

I'm only here to say that I love your sense of humor and good spirit. I hope you guys have a good time.

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kevinrk t1_j55hfbw wrote

Snow tires would definitely help. Chains don’t do anything useful.

In general going slow is the best precaution you can take. Whether or not you will be “fine” totally depends on your comfort level and the conditions at the time

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[deleted] t1_j55ie92 wrote

It really depends on the quality of your tread and the road conditions when you arrive. If you avoid driving when snow's dumping outside you should be fine. The DOT plows sometimes fall behind meaning roads can see a few inches before they're cleared. Route 115 between Marshfield and Walden had 4 inches of snow last night which I had to drive through to get home. I had 4x4 engaged all the way.

​

Consult this map to see where the snow plows are active to guide your travels.

VTrans Plow Finder Map - Current Plow Locations - Vermont Agency of Transportation

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ChadFerg t1_j55o08t wrote

Get STUDDED SNOW TIRES and when you’re going UP a hill, even somewhat steep, slippery and/or covered with snow DO NOT STOP!!! Momentum is your friend!!! Sliding backwards down a hill with people behind you BAD, going uphill GOOD

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j55w08m wrote

Cheers. Yeah learned all about grip and momentum riding. No stops and no sudden change of speed, steady is the way.

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heethin t1_j55qg4q wrote

Though Bolton is a reasonably priced resort, you are making a luxury trip and will be spending thousands and thousands of dollars. (Thank you.) So... take a hour or two and install some snow tires and remove the worry.

You'll go out to eat twice, have a couple of bottles of wine, and you'll have spent the money on that frivolity without thinking about it. But, you are questioning whether it's wise to put your life and others at risk because you don't want to spend the same amount? fuhgeddaboutit.

[edit: And that road up to Bolton is pretty gnarly if there's been weather. No matter what you are driving, you'll want to take it slow.]

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j55wbsk wrote

No actually I don't mind spending for the tires. I just wanted to know if I'll need it, rather than get something I don't need. Or if I couldn't get it, just not go.

I queried a local friend and she's suggested snow tires as well as the rest of this thread, so I'll go with them.

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PeteDontCare t1_j58c80u wrote

Boy are you going to be mad if there's no snow in the roads when you're here

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realmadrid111 t1_j55lnry wrote

Like people say, Bolton access road is steep and long. If it hasn't snowed, you're totally fine. If there's really any snow, sounds like you will not be doing well with your current setup.

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j56stnr wrote

Getting some snow tires. I forgot to ask, are we talking like consecutive steep up and downs like 1-2 car lengths up and then 1-2 cars down like a little hill, or we talking like a long-ish continuous 30 yard down 30 yard up? I'm fine with either I just want to know how freaked out my girlfriend is going to be in the passenger seat and how much calming down or not bringing her I need to do lol.

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realmadrid111 t1_j56v93t wrote

It's just a matter of traction, i don't really think the road itself is intimidating or anything. Just a climb up maybe 3 miles from Rt 2 to the base area. Consistently uphill (downhill going the other way!), some places a bit steeper than others. If it's the summer, it's not at all intimidating: no cliffs/dropoffs like you'd see in Colorado or something. Just a climb through the woods. No quick ups and downs like you mention.. just a coupla tightish corners. If you have snow tires and drive at a reasonable speed, you'll be fine.

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j575n26 wrote

Okay cool. I liked the Colorado mountain roads but my girlfriend did not lol. I drove those roads same as I did for the snowy roads in PA. If it's more continuous and doesn't feel sudden, that'll be better for her nerves.

Thanks for the info man!

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realmadrid111 t1_j5bgall wrote

No worries, you both should be good to go! Just came back from a great morning at Bolton, finally getting some snow!

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Khanover7 t1_j55lehl wrote

Bolton is probably not the best if you’re looking for good skiing/riding that you’re traveling for. Not to mention that the Bolton access road is treacherous. Look into Smuggs it’s probably better bang for your buck and you won’t have to drive around as much for food etc.

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j55my69 wrote

Cheers thanks a lot for the alternative suggestion, really appreciate it. I’ll look into it

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PeteDontCare t1_j58ck3w wrote

Better yet, if you're here for a month, bounce around to a few different places and hotels. And if you have the tires, think about driving to mad river or sugarbush for a day to ski and chill. Have you looked into Jay Peak. Bit out in the middle of nowhere, but maybe that's what you want. Every thought about a day, or a few, in Montreal?

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j5aexmb wrote

Yeah that's the plan actually. I mapped out all the ski resorts in VT and Bolton looked favorable. It's near the "big" towns people want to go to, and other 5-6 big and small resorts nearby. The plan is to base camp at Bolton, but also go visit Smugs, Sugarbush, Mad River, Cochran's, and Stowe and maybe other further resorts. And maybe pop over to Canada if we feel like it.

The girlfriend actually wants to start out with two weeks, which had crossed my mind as well, so we'll see if we want to extend and try to stay somewhere else in VT after two weeks.

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Hanginon t1_j55qgi5 wrote

Coming up skiing & boarding on an open ended vacation I would definitely go to the side of caution and security and put 4 snow tires on the Toyota, for a few reasons.

You're not used to driving in snow and they're going to give you a huge advantage in traction, which is everything. You'll have a stress free drive to and from the slopes or anywhere rather than a white knuckle experience. It's a vacation, relax!

It's not just your vehicle you have to be concerend about, that other car out there can also lose control and having the traction to successfully and quickly maneuver out of their way can be the difference between a close call and a ruined day, or days. It's happened to me, dodging the 'other guy' is sometimes a very critical ability/move. The days you most want to get out will also be the worst days to be driving. Fresh snow falling is the siren call of the slopes, and everyone is heading there, heavy traffic with people in a hurry, some/many who have little experience in driving in snow. You want easy somewhat effortless control of the vehicle and the ability to get where you're going. Snow tires give you access.

Matrix is not really a snow adventure vehicle, things like its low ground clearance with the wrong tires can get you stuck in a simple situation like plowing through the furrow of snow the plow trucks left at the road entrance. The roads may be plowed but the parking lots where you're going/visiting, not so much.

Snow tires would be a very small part of the total cost of a trip for weeks on the slopes, and an accident could be a very large part of the trip. What do you really gain by having less traction, less mobility risking a tow me out bill or accident? The deducable on the insurance is probably a lot more then the cost of the tires.

TLDR; I wouldn't risk my vacation on the possible consequences, get the snow tires.

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j55wzib wrote

That's how I slid out, we were on a tiny road (think dirt roads on the mountains/going to State parks, except this is pass farms), it just snowed a bit and the lines were covered and I was trying to stay as far out while not going off the road as possible, and this guy came in a turn really fast and I made a minor adjustment to drive a bit further out, started sliding. Fortunately was able to recover and just keep driving.

Sounds like I'll be getting the snow tires :) Thanks for the response!

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edave22 t1_j55v1qh wrote

If you’re sliding on light snow you may want to invest in snow tires or, even better, studded snow tires to deal with the ice.

Snow isn’t that bad, it’s the ice that will get you.

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j55xher wrote

Yep, I mean it was kind of light snow that iced up probably, and it was a thin road - think backcountry up the mountain or going to State parks, except fortunately this going past wide open farmland. I was already driving as far out my lane as possible when this car came fast on a turn, and I was just trying to adjust to have a little more room and a little further out. Slid out a little, fortunately was able to recover while driving and go on my way.

Sounds like I'll be getting some snow tires.

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edave22 t1_j55y1gd wrote

You won’t regret it. It’s snowing right now with a couple inches already accrued (southern vt. Probably more up north). I listen to the police scanner while I work and every 10 minutes is a call about a car with an out of state license plate sliding off the road and into a ditch. Better to play it safe and not have to worry about it during your vacation.

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j561z1h wrote

Oh I used to do that when I lived in NYC (I'm a VA transplant) and the siren blared during work. Do you use an actual physical scanner or an app? I used Broadcastify, but I don't think it had all the channels.

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edave22 t1_j5jls4s wrote

I bought a Home Patrol 2. Its about $500 but they pick up unencrypted police channels. A lot of PDs in the USA use encrypted channels so it won’t work everywhere but luckily most of the police departments in Vermont haven’t gone that way yet.

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patonbike t1_j564o0z wrote

It really depends on the day. Almost everyone (id say everyone who can afford it) uses snow tires in the winter.

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thelasagna t1_j56cx1g wrote

Snow tires will be a huge difference. If the conditions are poor and roads slippery, Drive and take turns like you have a bowl of soup you’re trying not to spill on your passengers lap. (Weird analogy but I heard it years ago and it stuck)

Best of luck, go slow, and if you feel overwhelmed, pull over.

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WhatTheCluck802 t1_j56q6lu wrote

Echoing everyone else. Bolton Access Road is a beast. Highest base elevation ski resort in Vermont. Do not try to tackle it without a solid set of snows.

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j56sr8v wrote

Will do, buying some snow tires. I forgot to ask people, we talking like consecutive steep up and downs like 1-2 car lengths up and then 1-2 cars down like a little hill, or we talking like a long-ish continuous 30 yard down 30 yard up? I'm fine with either I just want to know how freaked out my girlfriend is going to be in the passenger seat and how much calming down or not bringing her I need to do lol.

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WhatTheCluck802 t1_j56tsr4 wrote

Long consecutive steep… and twisty!

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j575q4x wrote

That'll be better for my gf's nerves, compared to sudden changes. I can tell from experience in PA lol. Thanks!

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raynedark t1_j5cnexv wrote

Put kitty litter in the back for weight and traction under the tires if you do get stuck. Get a below 0 wiper fluid or additive so you don't freeze up your windshield washing salt off. And wash your car when you get back so the salt doesn't start to rust it!

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Not_thePoint t1_j55tmca wrote

Bit of local knowledge: The majority of accidents on the interstate around Bolton due to snow and ice occur in an area known as the Bolton Flats. I don't know if people become overconfident on the long flat stretches of road, or if the wind picks up and blows the vehicle into sliding, or what; but be sure to go SLOW on the flats in bad weather.

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lavransson t1_j5675pn wrote

Just want to say, one of the scariest moments in my life was driving down the Bolton access road on an icy day in the dark with my minivan that had regular tires on it. I was probably taking it 5 mph at points, and I'm sure the line of Vermonters behind me were cursing this Flatlander. This is the windy road that leads from the main road up to the Bolton ski resort. This was when I was living in Virginia (ironically) and visiting my relatives in Vermont and took a day to go snowboarding at Bolton.

Now that I live in Vermont, like many others I have two sets of tires, one for the several months of summer and one for the half-year long winters. The winter tires also have studs. And I have an AWD vehicle now.

So, I would encourage you to get studded snow tires. Think of it as an insurance policy. It will cost you $500 but that's cheaper than your insurance deductible. And good luck getting your car repaired in Vermont. You know the old joke about being able to pick 2 things out of "good, cheap and fast"? If you want auto body work in Vermont in winter, you'll can probably get "good" but don't expect cheap or fast.

BTW, I suspect your Matrix is front-wheel drive, not rear wheel drive, but I could be wrong.

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j56k3io wrote

You're right, I've been corrected by a couple people it's front wheel drive. I didn't need to know either way down here, but in harsher conditions I do. It's my girlfriend's car. I have a motorcycle (but I drive regularly, just don't need a second car since I already have transport).

Ha funny you were also living here. I moved from NYC (where we mostly don't drive) to down here for a job (ironically paid better than the one I had in NYC, more senior too).

I talked to a friend who used to live there (now she's in parts of Canada in similar weather), and people here have encouraged it as well, so I'll be getting some Nokian snow tires. I just wanted to make sure I really needed it, and the benefit outweigh the cost, which it does. For some reason I had thought each tire would cost me $500. For years I keep hearing people tell me "I just changed tires and it cost me $500!" with no specification if it was per tire or 4 tires. But $500 for a set of 4 tires for much added peace of mind and actual real safety. I can deal with that.

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lavransson t1_j56r4op wrote

Yeah, it sucks to buy tires for one trip, but if you might be able to sell them afterwards perhaps?

Again, I described getting snow tires as insurance against sliding off the road and possibly doing great damage to your vehicle, yourself and possibly others. Just add this in as another cost of your trip.

Hope you have a great trip.

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SuddenSheepherder711 t1_j56m6cf wrote

Awd matrix’s (matrices?) are really good in the snow, but fwd with snow tires should be totally fine for cruising around! If you dont feel safe just take a break or wait it out

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j56oghp wrote

It's mainly to settle my partner's nerves haha, waiting it out won't work. But getting snow tire does. And also people have said it really helps, so I'm getting some :) Thanks!

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PeteDontCare t1_j58bybj wrote

Drop your gear. Let your foot off of the gas instead of mashing your break. Break and stopping are the enemy. Remain in control enough to not need to be breaking much. Give yourself plenty of time to stop, and ease into it. Don't jam on the break. Going is the easier part, momentum is your friend. Feel the road and take your foot off of the gas when in doubt. It's the slowing down and stopping that'll get you

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timberwolf0122 t1_j5esg4j wrote

In snow you want to be gentle on the gas/brakes

If you can afford a set of actual snow tires they will make a huge difference, even if you just put them on the front (in a FWD vehicle like yours that’s the set that does 75% of the work)

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j5f6ouw wrote

Yeah after all the comments and consulting a local friend I’m getting some Nokias. Cheers!

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MarkVII88 t1_j55sad7 wrote

OK, so you didn't know that the Matrix is either Front or All wheel drive. Sometimes people just don't know or care to know anything mechanical about the cars they're driving. I don't understand that personally, but fine.

However, in a comment below, you said that the Matrix is not your car. So, if I have this right, you are asking Reddit whether you should buy snow tires for someone else's car? What?

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j55u7s8 wrote

It's my partner's car, and I'm on the insurance. I'm doing the research for both of us. And for front/rear wheel drive it doesn't matter where we drive. If the knowledge mattered I'd have known it, but not here. In Iceland it mattered, so we got an all wheel drive car. Can we be less judgy and more onto the topic at hand? Ever cross your mind people have reasons for thing?

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MarkVII88 t1_j55ykda wrote

Nope. Hasn't crossed my mind. And I don't really care about whether or not my comments/questions are on-topic, or judgy. I'm sure couples have reasons for keeping their finances separate, or for keeping their vehicles and other possessions from being part of a pooled household.

Again, I don't understand that personally. Like I said, not everyone knows, or cares to know anything mechanical about their vehicles. The way you stated it in your initial comment down in the thread, about the car not being yours, made it sound like you were borrowing a car from a friend or a relative to make the drive from VA to VT.

If that was the case, I could conceivably understand being unfamiliar with the vehicle. But as the Matrix belongs to your partner I'd consider it a common vehicle to you both, and something you'd both be familiar with and at least minimally knowledgeable about. Anyway, I digress.

The question really is: do you want to spend the money on snow tires? The stock tire size for most Toyota Matrix is 205/55/16. The link below to Discount Tire lists snow tires in this size from cheapest to most expensive. Hard to find any snow tires for less than $100/each. That doesn't include the cost for mount and balance. You're easily looking at spending $500. Not sure this is worth it, honestly. Just drive carefully, decisively, and predictably in the snow and you should be fine, unless your Matrix is already rocking tires with worn out tread. Maybe you could find a better deal local to where you live.

https://www.discounttiredirect.com/fitmentresult/tires/size/205-55-16?q=%3Aprice-asc%3AtireCategory%3AwinterTires&sort=price-asc&page=0

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j561hp5 wrote

Well fair enough. I mean I wouldn't personally borrow someone else's car to do something risky or just even borrowing it in the first place. I wouldn't lend someone my vehicle either.

I ride, so I want to know about my motorcycle and maintaining it. My partner typically maintains the car, I pitch in half. But she maintains her car pretty well, and for the type of driving and weather here I don't really need to know, not for function not for safety. The difference that makes no difference is no difference for me. Going to VT is the niche circumstances.

But yeah, I'm getting a lot of comments to get snow tires. I'm okay with getting them. My friend that used to live in Vermont but moved to Canada where her town/city has similar weather has recommended Nokian / Hakkapelita. So it looks like we'll be getting them.

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MarkVII88 t1_j563lc6 wrote

Nokian Hakkapelittas are great snow tires. Pricey though. Nokian Nordman are also excellent, just one tier below the Hakkapelittas, and more affordable. I've had good experiences with both of them. I've also had good results with General Altimax Arctic snow tires as well.

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reinhart_menken OP t1_j564e52 wrote

Cheer, I saw the Nordman and was wondering about it too. My friend did say Nokian are all good in general, so good to know. Will look for General Altimax Arctic if we can't find Nokian here.

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