BosSF82 t1_j9trlsg wrote on February 24, 2023 at 2:37 PM

crypto jumped the shark very quickly and lost the battle of hearts and minds, and without some truly epoch defining innovation that the world soon adopts, it will continue to languish as a zombified niche area full of delusions, cynicism and the burning of real money.

BrotherAmazing t1_j9uuqpv wrote on February 24, 2023 at 6:50 PM

Bitcoin is one of the few with a use case, adoption, and value that is not inherently speculative, but almost all crypto is trash (way more than 99%) and even the price of BTC is hard to know what it would be if we took away a lot of the speculative part of the demand; i.e., what portion of the demand is by those who actually use the bitcoin payment network and it fills a niche service of value/utility for them?

myne t1_j9vbsxb wrote on February 24, 2023 at 8:40 PM

Eh? Use case? Btc doesn't have one. Eth does. Those smart contacts have potential. The key is adoption. I don't see much of that.

BrotherAmazing t1_j9vpk26 wrote on February 24, 2023 at 10:09 PM

Not true.

Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer electronic payment network that requires no trusted 3rd party, no bank or Visa can sanction or deny payments on Bitcoin (Ethereum is already floating adding this capability now that they are PoS), and final irreversible payment occurs faster than Visa or ACH. Bitcoin is not a security, even the SEC has admitted this, while Ethereum is now considered a security by many at the SEC and even those who want to be Ethereum friendly have not said it isn’t a security like they have with Bitcoin, which is another advantage of Bitcoin.

I’m not going to shit on Ethereum like I will shit on 99% of the other crap out there (smart contracts are cool, I like Vitalik overall), but to say Bitcoin has no use case is ignorant. Just because it may not have a use case for you doesn’t mean there aren’t tens of thousands of people every day finding value in the services that Bitcoin’s network provides.

Trotter823 t1_j9w18op wrote on February 24, 2023 at 11:30 PM

The real use case for Bitcoin is almost exclusively for scammers and criminals. Other than that it’s much slower and more expensive than actual money.

BrotherAmazing t1_j9w54r6 wrote on February 24, 2023 at 11:59 PM

People have been saying that for 10 years. These comments have never aged well. Just wait for one or two more halvings and you’ll be seeing people saying “Bitcoin is dead!” when it crashes down to $75k a coin.

Literally you people have always been wrong longterm about Bitcoin, and there is nothing new or compelling you are bringing up here as an argument. I would be happy to listen if you had anything new that hasn’t been said constantly for the last 10 years while BTC has done nothing but gained adoption and crushed the S&P 500.

Ahueh t1_j9wgrb5 wrote on February 25, 2023 at 1:26 AM

Hilariously lol. You can say the same thing about any bubble, until you can't. Bitcoin Maxi's have yet to name something useful it does. Even overhyped trash businesses that promised the moon had a reasonable lie they could sell to the average slob. BTC doesn't even have a product they can lie about.

BrotherAmazing t1_j9wmopp wrote on February 25, 2023 at 2:12 AM

I already named useful things Bitcoin does and you completely ignored them:

Bitcoin provides final irreversible settlement faster than ACH or Visa. This is important for me if I want to be 100% sure I have a final payment that can’t be clawed back before I send you something of value or perform a service for you of value. This can occur on a holiday or weekend or after hours when banks are closed.
I can send you a payment and it cannot be censored, sanctioned, or declined.
For a speculative investment, the native token of the Bitcoin payment network, BTC, is not a security by definition (even the SEC agrees) and that risk associated with being a security is eliminated. It also has a cap of 21M total BTC. Speculative? Yes! Don’t invest what you can’t afford to lose. Stupid? No! Not for 0.5% - 1% of your portfolio. The risk-reward given Bitcoin’s internal monetary policy and history of a bull market after each halving justifies speculation far more than on, say, 90% of the nonsense that gets thrown around here. It has the largest market cap for a reason.

There are more advantages than those I list, but those are very obvious advantages of Bitcoin.

Furthermore, Bitcoin was invented to solve a problem that was technical in nature, not the problem of “I want to get rich off a vaporware shitcoin” like almost all other chains besides Monero and Ethereum.

But the whole point here isn’t why Bitcoin will survive, the whole point is > 99% of crypto is garbage shit and Coinbase may not be a great investment longterm.

Ahueh t1_j9wrag1 wrote on February 25, 2023 at 2:49 AM

HONK

crash_bandicoot42 t1_j9wzfkd wrote on February 25, 2023 at 3:58 AM

ETH does this but it's significantly faster. BTC only had first mover advantage the past decade but I don't see a world in which even if crypto becomes mainstream that BTC is the leader because it lags significantly behind Monero, ETH and a few other coins in usability.

BrotherAmazing t1_j9x1vlw wrote on February 25, 2023 at 4:20 AM

Ethereum does, and should also be differentiated from “crypto” in general, but unlike Bitcoin it is a security and also has started seriously considering implementing mechanisms to censor transactions.

You also seem to ignore or perhaps are unaware of the Lightning Network.

But I agree Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Monero are a few non-scam non-shit blockchains, but almost everything else is complete rubbish, hence the main point that $COIN is at risk when they’re shilling shitcoin scams up the ying-yang and Papa Gensler comes guns a-blazing one of these days.

Trotter823 t1_j9wlp9q wrote on February 25, 2023 at 2:04 AM

Crushed the S&P in what? Printing dollars for the owners of Bitcoin? In that case you think about Bitcoin in terms of dollars proving it doesn’t have real adoption because it’s always anchored to how many dollars it’s worth.

Bitcoin hasn’t produced an ounce of real value since it’s inception. It has a mystical creator and promises riches to its believers like some sort of religion. At any rate due to how many people seem to want to speculate on it I doubt it’s going to 0 anytime soon if ever and I’d even go as far as to say there’s a decent chance it goes way up from here but that’s a pure gamble. And personally I’d rather gamble on something less regarded than Bitcoin.

BrotherAmazing t1_j9wnp7n wrote on February 25, 2023 at 2:20 AM

I already mentioned several use cases and services of value the Bitcoin decentralized peer-to-peer network provides elsewhere in this thread.

If you want to ignore that, it’s your ignorance and not my fault.

[deleted] t1_j9wny9z wrote on February 25, 2023 at 2:22 AM

[deleted]

Trotter823 t1_j9wqcyj wrote on February 25, 2023 at 2:41 AM

What do any of those use cases do for the average person that is inherently more beneficial than using visa? Just because it’s peer to peer doesn’t make it inherently better or worse. And the transaction fees, time, and inherent complexity of using Bitcoin is going to keep a lot of people out. That says nothing to its volatility which again, proves its not all that good at storing value.

Now if you need to pay for things off grid then it’s fantastic and there’s nothing like it but the number of people who need that isn’t exactly high.

BrotherAmazing t1_j9wxw7f wrote on February 25, 2023 at 3:45 AM

I wasn’t saying everyone should use Bitcoin or that it should or will be adopted by the masses, replace fiat, etc etc. No, I don’t agree with that. I only was remarking that it is one of the few that should be distinguished from the rest of crypto as clearly not being a security (how many cryptos has Gensler publicly admitted again and again that they are not securities?) and it does solve use-case problems and provide value to some people in certain situations, often outside the developed world. I didn’t say anything about the size of the market for those who value using the Bitcoin payment network.

If someone wanted me to give them my jewelry in exchange for a check on a Sunday and I didn’t know them, I would do it. If they offered an ACH or Visa and it was “Pending” I wouldn’t give them the jewelry until it settled if I didn’t know them. That would take some time. If they paid me in BTC and it settled, I’d give them the jewelry.

myne t1_j9wiuma wrote on February 25, 2023 at 1:42 AM

How much have you spent on goods and services?

BrotherAmazing t1_j9wmzyw wrote on February 25, 2023 at 2:14 AM

Me personally? Only a few grand each year.

But I’ve never used Moneygram or Western Union in my life, never play video games, never use a lot of things I personally don’t have a desire to use.

That doesn’t mean these thing I personally don’t use don’t serve some use case or aren’t valued by people in this world.

BrotherAmazing t1_j9utljt wrote on February 24, 2023 at 6:42 PM

Bitcoin will survive. Blockchain will survive. The question is whether all these shitcoins survive, and I think the answer is no. Not in the U.S. at least.

If you have an ICO and reserve a bunch of the supply for yourself, the founder(s) and dev team, you’re registering as a security or not operating lawfully in the U.S. is where this is going. Otherwise you launch like Bitcoin did and are then clearly not a security.

The days of “cryptoChef2020” making up a token out of thin air or a blatant copy of an Open Source project, gives himself 20% of the supply and his “dev team” 20% of the supply, holds an ICO on his own with vaporware/copied code behind it he pumped, then either skips town or legit tries to make the tech gain adoption for a little while to ease his conscience and might get listed on Coinbase are going to be gone soon if not already.

Stupidflathalibut t1_j9vs87c wrote on February 24, 2023 at 10:27 PM

I dunno how old you are, but it seems like young people are really fucking bullish on crypto and see BTC as the gold standard. They don't have a lot of money to throw around yet but maybe in 10 years

Eccentricc t1_j9w292q wrote on February 24, 2023 at 11:38 PM

I used to sell runescape gp back in high-school. This was 2012? Idk something like that. People would constantly scam me by doing charge backs on paypal and I kept losing money. I found bitcoin and would sell it for bitcoin so they couldn't charge back. I also didn't have a credit card in high school but I was able to buy and transfer funds with crypto. I made uses out of it, I never thought to invest and it blow up so big

Stupidflathalibut t1_j9xjeiu wrote on February 25, 2023 at 7:27 AM

If it were obvious, it would be too late. I really think people forget it's not what you like, it's what consumers like. If there is a generation of people that grew up with crypto as a reality, they will be buying BTC like mad once they get some money

Cathie Wood Continues Coinbase Buying

Eccentricc t1_j9tq1ct wrote on February 24, 2023 at 2:25 PM