Submitted by Crimbobimbobippitybo t3_122so8k in worldnews
[deleted] t1_jdtlpff wrote
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just-cuz-i t1_jdtrm4x wrote
People have been crossing oceans in small and dangerous craft for literally tens of thousands of years and will continue to as their needs arise.
No-Reach-9173 t1_jdu38f5 wrote
I will always fail to see why people shouldn't be able to leave their shit home countries if they so choose.
Successful_Prior_267 t1_jdu6iv8 wrote
Countries have the right to decide who enters their borders. Just because your country sucks doesn’t mean that you can go wherever you want without regard for the law.
green_flash t1_jduer6v wrote
Countries that signed and ratified the UN refugee convention allow anyone to enter their country by any means whatsoever to claim political asylum. That's the whole point of the convention.
Successful_Prior_267 t1_jduf5hw wrote
The convention has no enforcement mechanism.
green_flash t1_jdufpvg wrote
Ratifying a convention means putting it into national law. The enforcement mechanism is Italy's legal system.
Nek0maniac t1_jdu48q9 wrote
They should be able to. But by legal means, not via illegal sea vessels that smuggle them into the country
No-Reach-9173 t1_jdu4uq7 wrote
They get smuggled into the country because there isn't legal means.
Nek0maniac t1_jdu57ld wrote
Dunno about that chief. I'm an immigrant in Germany and I got here through legal means. It certainly isn't easy, but it is possible.
Also, according to your logic it would be fine for me to steal a car, because I have no legal means to get it otherwise
No-Reach-9173 t1_jdubvqi wrote
A person would need approximately 9000+ euros to immigrate to Germany as I am sure you are aware. Roughly 6 billion people on earth will never have that much and many of the poorest would never earn that much in their lifetime. Thus they have no legal means to immigrate.
Falk_csgo t1_jdue3po wrote
Then those people have nothing to do in germany anyways other than enjoying taxpayer money. Its not like life here is free and if you cant get that money you probably wont sustain you own life there.
What do you think germany would look like with 6 billion people that never have 9000€ in their life and 80 million tax payers?
wangaroo123 t1_jduec4o wrote
Nope. A car is not necessary for your survival. Leaving their homes to cross a sea in a dingy is something people do as a last resort
Nek0maniac t1_jduf6fy wrote
The car was just an example. Stealing food because I can't afford it or breaking into someones house because I can't get my own place isn't okay either.
wangaroo123 t1_jdugc4y wrote
If you couldn’t get food by legal means you would rather starve to death than steal?
Nek0maniac t1_jdumxpz wrote
I probably would, it wouldn't make it okay though. We need laws in a society to keep it civilised and everyone has to follow them, regardless of circumstance.
green_flash t1_jduolt6 wrote
We have asylum laws that guarantee the right to apply for asylum as an inalienable human right to every person on German soil, regardless how they arrived in the country. Italy has such a law as well.
wangaroo123 t1_jdwex0a wrote
So you’re saying you would steal but you still think the highest moral ground in this situation is someone just accepting they can’t get food at the moment and starving?
IMO someone stealing isn’t great but it’s way better than someone dying, especially if it’s from starvation, a problem we could solve pretty easily if we wanted.
The bigger issue here is that someone needs to steal to not die. We should be condemning the cause of these issues much harsher than the symptoms.
KA-ME-HA-ME- t1_jdu8hhv wrote
By your logic slaves should never attempt to be free because it's theft. After all they legally belong to "Masa" don't they?
Oh I'm sorry I thought we were taking bad faith arguments to their illogical extreme
irk5nil t1_jdu78hp wrote
You have to ask those home countries to allow that, though.
[deleted] t1_jdtrpz2 wrote
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[deleted] t1_jdtsayl wrote
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Arcadess t1_jdub96t wrote
That's not being honest at all.
There is no link at all between NGOs' activity in the Mediterranean and migrant arrival, and not even a shred of proof about any kind of pact or money transfer between them and traffickers.
https://cadmus.eui.eu/handle/1814/65024. >We find no relationship between the presence of NGOs at sea and the number of migrants leaving Libyan shores. Although more data and further research are needed, the results of our analysis call into question the claim that non-governmental SAR operations are a pull factor of irregular migration across the Mediterranean sea.
Feel free to share any kind of source about illegal activity between NGOs and traffickers, and share them with our courts too, since they didn't find any...
Heavyweighsthecrown t1_jdu8gqk wrote
> If their presence were not there, the migrants attempting to cross would, in most cases, not come
It's a good thing their presence is there then, to assure a safer (or 'less dangerous') crossing. Let's hope they keep it up for as long as they can.
yakovgolyadkin t1_jdu3gkm wrote
"We should make this very dangerous thing that incredibly desperate people do more dangerous, because that'll stop them from trying" is not a strategy that has ever worked.
zsaleeba t1_jdubql7 wrote
Leaning into the right wing narrative I see. There's little to no evidence that supports the assertion that rescuing people results in worse outcomes. To say otherwise is simply justifying callousness to the plight of these refugees.
green_flash t1_jduejvg wrote
Furthermore, something like 90% of sea rescues in the Mediterranean are done by the Italian and Maltese coastguards. The NGOs are not actually all that relevant. The reason Italy is making their job harder is domestic political posturing.
iamiamwhoami t1_jdty22z wrote
The problem is that migrants have to be on EU soil in order to claim asylum. The EU should create a program where refugees can apply for asylum remotely. The US did that recently and it saw a drastic decrease in illegal border crossings.
Edit: to the person who downvoted me, if you disagree with this then your problem isn’t with asylum seekers being put in danger. You just don’t want any asylum seekers whatsoever. You can be honest. You don’t have to pretend to care about asylum seekers. You can just say you don’t want the program to exist.
green_flash t1_jduf91g wrote
You misunderstood something there. There is no way to claim asylum from outside the US. For good reason: It would completely overwhelm the system and lead to a massive increase in successful applications for political asylum. You first have to cross the border. What the US wants to do is expedite the process of processing asylum claims: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-unveils-rule-speed-up-asylum-processing-deportations-border-2022-03-24/
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