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DorisCrockford t1_iubozqs wrote

Not all rat poison.

>The permanent regulatory changes announced Friday will ban the widespread sale and use of second-generation anticoagulant rodenticides (SGARs), which the province says risk the secondary poisoning of animals who consume poisoned rodents.

These poisons have been banned in other places as well. They kill predators.

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bingobangobenis t1_iubx6z9 wrote

it's crazy that stuff still get used, when there's types of poison that are harmless to basically everything but the mice that eat it

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Marmotskinner t1_iufl35h wrote

Selontra. Don’t handle that shit without disposable gloves you toss immediately.

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mom0nga t1_iudbz0p wrote

Yep, this ban only targets the most indiscriminate poisons, which travel up the food chain and kill wildlife. Other effective rodent control options are still available.

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heathert7900 t1_iucrwb4 wrote

Oh gross rodent hemorrhagic poison… who wants bleeding rats??

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BlackViperMWG t1_iucscgk wrote

They are bleeding internally though.

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XiTro t1_iucuxnk wrote

But that’s where the blood’s supposed to be.

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ajisawwsome t1_iudcdmw wrote

Not necessarily. If your internals get messed up and your body can't effectively pump blood back into the heart because blood vessels were destroyed, you can bleed out into your chest cavity, muscles, tissues, etc.

Techincal term is internal hemorrhage

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heathert7900 t1_iucseal wrote

You can only bleed so much until you become a soup dumpling of blood

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Latter_Fortune_7225 t1_iub5pkw wrote

Good. Rat poisons are terrible for wildlife.

Might be worth developing a natural solution like Australia has done, creating 1080 poison from the native Heart leaf poison bush (gastrolobium grandiflorum) to target introduced foxes and cats, and not harm native wildlife in the process.

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Onemilliondown t1_iuc9rh5 wrote

Sodium fluoroacetate, (1080) has quite serious secondary poisoning issues. In some circumstances the secondary effects can be lower than the damage caused by the target species. But it is far from perfect.

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WickedSlice_ t1_iucc1du wrote

Yeah native wildlife in Australia are so protected from 1080 that they use it in NZ to kill Possums which were introduced from Australia..

Don’t believe the BS that it doesn’t kill native Aussie animals.

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Latter_Fortune_7225 t1_iucetbf wrote

That would be because it isn't designed to keep native Australian species safe if it's being used in New Zealand.

Ours are designed to protect our species:

> The incredibly tiny amount of 1080 injected into each wild dog and fox bait is deadly to those species but safe for native predators, including birds of prey (e.g. wedge-tailed eagles), reptiles (e.g. goannas) and the iconic spotted-tailed quoll. Despite incorrect claims that 1080 is harmful to these native species, in reality they are all known to eat meat baits poisoned with the compound 1080 and survive. 

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shwiftyname t1_iudcm40 wrote

A sign stating “FERAL CAT SAUSAGE” I spotted while vacationing on the Island of Maui sent me searching the internet until I discovered that sausages were FOR controlling feral cats, and were not FROM or OF feral cats. The sausages, an Australian invention, can be safely consumed by native wildlife but are toxic to feral felines.

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catinterpreter t1_iud1l9o wrote

The Australian poison is cruel in its own right.

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Latter_Fortune_7225 t1_iueykq2 wrote

How so? How else can we control such a devastatingly destructive, introduced species without harming our native wildlife?

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mynameisneddy t1_iuejqmt wrote

1080 is a terrible poison, it kills indiscriminately, is an exceptionally painful death and unlike anticoagulants there’s no antidote for accidental poisoning.

The only reason it’s widely used in NZ is there’s no realistic alternative against possum invasion to protect our millions of hectares of native forest other than dropping it from helicopters. It’s quite contentious though, and if there’s was a realistic alternative we’d use it.

And in populated areas anticoagulants are used, because 1080 is too dangerous.

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[deleted] t1_iuavshf wrote

[deleted]

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cbbuntz t1_iuaxx2p wrote

Switch to the heart medicine that's the same chemical as rat poison?

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truemeliorist t1_iub4nk8 wrote

Sadly rat poison isn't made with it anymore afaik. Which actually really sucks because you can treat warfarin/coumadin overdoses from old style rat poison in dogs and cats with vitamin K.

Newer rat poisons have no way to counteract them, so you basically have to force feed pets liquified charcoal slurry and pray that you can dilute the poison enough.

People forget when you kill a rat with the poison, you also poison anything else that may go after the rat's body. Often, cats and dogs.

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merit33 t1_iubclmk wrote

I know someone who complained about some rat or iguana scurrying on the roof, left poison for a night; dead possum and neighbour's cat.

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marakat3 t1_iuc2oqv wrote

My cat died 3 weeks ago, I fully believe she died because she ate a poisoned rat.

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WickedSlice_ t1_iucc40p wrote

Neighbour should ensure it’s cat doesn’t leave its property if they were so concerned about the welfare of the animal and the native wildlife though.

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BrennanSpeaks t1_iubw5lw wrote

Depends on the poison. Second and third gen anticoagulants like the ones being banned can absolutely be treated with vitamin k, the same as warfarin. It’s the non-anticoagulant alternatives like bromethalin and cholecalciferol that get complicated to treat.

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CarverSeashellCharms t1_iue2fvs wrote

I don't know why you got that impression. Warfarin is still widely used and still the most popular rodenticide in the world. It's even still commonly used in Canada AFAIK:

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/consumer-product-safety/reports-publications/pesticides-pest-management/fact-sheets-other-resources/rodenticides-agricultural-settings/questions-answers.html

https://spca.bc.ca/ways-to-help/take-action/urban-wildlife/humane-rodent-control/rodenticides/

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/consumer-product-safety/reports-publications/pesticides-pest-management/fact-sheets-other-resources/rodenticides-agricultural-settings.html

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HermitKane t1_iub3xjm wrote

You’re thinking of Warfarin/Coumadin. When I was a kid my dad had a bottle in case he had to “take care of things”.

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BrennanSpeaks t1_iubw9j2 wrote

We stopped using that when a ton of rats developed resistance to it.

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davesg t1_iuc5m3x wrote

What's B. C.? We're not all Canadian or American.

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Isotope_Soap t1_iuc6z1u wrote

British Columbia. That land mass that separates Washington state from Alaska.

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davesg t1_iucggqi wrote

Thanks! I found out a minute later. I was just complaining about using those kind of acronyms on r/worldnews.

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ClubSoda t1_iucmipa wrote

Where you not watching the Olympics in Vancouver 2010? Or heard of Expo '86?

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davesg t1_iucqdq0 wrote

Nope. Not interested in Winter Olympics and I don't know what's that expo about. Anyway, of course I've heard about Vancouver, but didn't know it was located in British Columbia. Just like an average Joe wouldn't know that Melbourne is in Victoria or Athens is in Attica.

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ZedFlex t1_iubshts wrote

Great news! Anti coagulants are a horrible way to die and consistently kill predators like owls and pets like dogs. There are better ways to deal with rodents than this poison

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OofPleases t1_iudqsfr wrote

This summer my family’s dog Wyatt dive bombed a chunk of rat poison we keep in between a panel and door of one of our barn’s coops. It turned to be this kind and the vet said I was smart to bring him in within the 15 minutes of him eating it instead of a few hours. Vet said there’s no cure so they can only pump the stomach. When I told my mom she said “Not buying that brand again.” My mom doesn’t love a lot of animals but damn does she love Wyatt.

TLDR: Dog ate the banned brand of poison, stomach flushed and he’s happy and healthy nowadays. We don’t buy that poison anymore.

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Barrakketh t1_iue26xi wrote

You're only supposed to use that kind of poison inside a dog and child resistant bait station that locks. That's why blocks of rodenticide has a hole in the middle, you slide it onto rods inside of the bait station so the rodents aren't just dragging it off somewhere.

There are treatment options if pumping the stomach is not an option. The vet can administer activated charcoal to help limit absorption, and vitamin k can be injected to help with clotting. In severe cases blood transfusion is an option.

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Wigu90 t1_iub2ury wrote

Yes-yes.

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bronco_y_espasmo t1_iubcus2 wrote

Back to stabbing my enemies, I guess...

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PsyOpBunnyHop t1_iubjh2d wrote

"Well, now what am I going to put in all these darned candy apples! Halloween is ruined..."

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beregond23 t1_iub0xh7 wrote

So BC wants Alberta to have rats again I see

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Ayrnas t1_iubhmke wrote

It does not occur to you that they might have safer alternatives?

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platypus_bear t1_iuc28f4 wrote

BC isn't really a problem when it comes to rats in Alberta. You get the odd ones coming by train but the mountains block easy movement. The real issue is the Saskatchewan and Montana borders.

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Kind_Bullfrog_4073 t1_iubtsr4 wrote

They better import some cats then

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Moonhunter7 t1_iudefag wrote

No, cats kill native birds, better to go with small dogs. Some of the terrier breeds were originally bred to hunt rats.

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keeperoftheseal t1_iuay9r2 wrote

Cool, now just gotta stop the Black Plague

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Man_Bear_Beaver t1_iubic3d wrote

https://www.history.com/news/rats-didnt-spread-the-black-death-it-was-humans

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extra_pickles t1_iuclkms wrote

This is a prime example of why we need better regulations around political contributions and need to reduce the influence of special interest groups.

Big Rat has won.

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ResidentSix t1_iudckzx wrote

See SenesTech, birth control for rats which eliminates the most significant aspect of infestations: the population rebound (and corresponding evolutionary selection for traits which avoid poisoning).

Another effective alternative is to stuff dry ice into rat holes when they are found. The CO2 kills them in their sleep, is odorless, leaves no toxic residuals, and results in underground carcasses.

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blondeandbuddafull t1_iuefz6k wrote

It is torturously cruel to the rat to poison them; if necessary, a neck snapper is at least fast and relatively painless. Using poisin on creatures will stain your soul…

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ImmortalMermade t1_iuegw16 wrote

Rat problem in Australia is the direct result of indiscriminate killing of dingos and other predators by a invasive predator species called Caucasians

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SapientRaccoon t1_iub00ew wrote

Medication would probably work better than eradication, anyway.

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aten t1_iub14vi wrote

traps are way more fun.

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Franklin_le_Tanklin t1_iub3jhr wrote

Rifles are even more way more fun

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aten t1_iub3t6w wrote

fixing up holes in walls, less so.

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ybonepike t1_iub4yc0 wrote

A pack of rat terriers is more fun to watch while sippin the juice

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Isotope_Soap t1_iub5igz wrote

Now if we could just follow Alberta’s lead and ban rats as pets.

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crdctr t1_iubgnhq wrote

Fancy rats have more in common with dogs than street rats, they have been bred to be completely docile and domesticated, and have high intelligence.

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Isotope_Soap t1_iubj320 wrote

No doubt rats, fancy or feral are intelligent. Unfortunately, those kept as pets can easily revert back to feral ways just as easily as a pig should they escape or be let loose by thoughtless pet owners.

I’d vote to adopt Calgary’s cat bylaws too.

“Under our Responsible Pet Ownership Bylaw, cat owners must ensure their cats:

Have a City of Calgary l​icense. Remain on the owner's property. Do not disturb the peace by howling or crying. Do not damage others' property. Do not scatter garbage. Do not chase, threaten, or attack a person or an animal.”

The “remain on owner’s property” is the clincher. I’d humanely trap any cat on my property and turn it over to the SPCA. I much prefer birds chirping in my garden rather than cat shit amongst my strawberries.

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MarkHirsbrunner t1_iubra73 wrote

They have many traits that make them not as effective at living in the wild and I know of no instances of fancy rats forming a breeding population in the wild. They are much weaker and not poison resistant. They don't know how to fight effectively, they retain juvenile traits into adulthood and slap, not bite. Most have coloration that makes them vulnerable to predators and some will actually approach predators.

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Isotope_Soap t1_iubwz3c wrote

A lot of those traits would easily disappear within a generation being feral. Big difference between the upbringing of a hand raised rat it’s wild-born counterpart. Ever been on a farm and thought “Oh! Look at the cute little barn kitten” only to be hissed at wildly? You’re not gonna get anywhere near that cute lil fuzz-ball without a good blood-letting. That cute little kitty was a descendant of a common domesticated house cat.

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MarkHirsbrunner t1_iubze8y wrote

It would take more than one generation for the physical and behavioral differences to go away. Dogs born in the wild still lack there instinctual fear of humans that wolves have. You have a rather Lamarckian idea of how animals going feral works.

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Isotope_Soap t1_iuc3y4y wrote

Dogs have evolved over many millennia, adapting to human interaction and being bred for purpose. Whereas the “domesticated rat” has been more or less a fad of the last three or four decades at most.

Keep rats if you want. That’s your prerogative. If I see one in my garden, I don’t care how “fancy” it might be, it’ll be squared up in the pellet gun sights. We can agree to disagree. You see rats as cute and cuddly, I see them as invasive, a vector for disease, and only valuable in lab research environments.

I get a bit of a giggle when people compare rats to dogs. Dogs can actually be useful outside the laboratory.

“But but but, this is my emotional support rat!” :(

This post reminds me of an “artist” in the mid/late eighties in Vancouver who got all kinds of media attention when he stated that he was going to make art by splattering a rat on a canvas in front of the Vancouver Art Gallery. Sadly, it never came to be. Was just some activist trolling for attention. Was trying to make a statement about the ethical treatment of rats.

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MarkHirsbrunner t1_iuc4y6o wrote

Dogs take almost a year to reach an age where they can breed. Rats take six weeks. Fancy rats have been bred for about 150 years. That's thousands of generations.

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Isotope_Soap t1_iuc5pyt wrote

Are you insinuating that a fancy rat is as distinct from a feral rat as a Chihuahua is from a wolf? It’s that rapid breeding cycle that makes them an environmental threat.

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Wigu90 t1_iuc9rkq wrote

Ugh, are you an old person?

You sound like an old person.

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Isotope_Soap t1_iucalsv wrote

Is that really your best jab or just youthful laziness?

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Wigu90 t1_iucdog0 wrote

I mean, you’re offhandedly ridiculing the idea of mental self-care while threatening imaginary runaway pet rats in your back yard with a BB gun.

No need for jabs. No point in arguing. All we lazy youths have to do is wait.

And as we part ways, just as a mental exercise, try to image what would happen if people with your "dogs are fine because millennia" mindset would be in charge when dogs were first domesticated. And also, please, try reading up on what an ecosystem is before you attempt to classify animal species along the lines of "good and useful because hunting and K9 squad and sheep and human friend" and "bad because disease and probably not but maybe bubonic plague and sewer". There are other things to read that Classic Car Engine Noises Monthly, you know.

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Isotope_Soap t1_iucfftu wrote

Hahaha! You’re cute sweetie! Do you have a preferred pronoun? I’d hate to offend. But I digress, the idea of an emotional support rat makes me giggle.

Tagged more than 1 rat in the bird feeder, and until tonight, I had no idea the brown/white one could have been possibly considered fancy or domesticated. A rat is a rat in my books. All worthy of a pellet.

Struggling somewhat to decipher your last paragraph. I’ll assume English isn’t your native tongue but admire your attempt to convey thoughts in a foreign language. Are you trying to say that rats are a part of the natural ecosystem here in BC?

You like those cute Grey Squirrels? Schedule C in the BC Wildlife Act. Can be captured or killed anywhere, at anytime as they are considered invasive and harmful to the ecosystem. Go figure, I might know a think or two about my local ecosystem!

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Wigu90 t1_iud1arb wrote

>You like those cute Grey Squirrels? Schedule C in the BC Wildlife Act. Can be captured or killed anywhere, at anytime as they are considered invasive and harmful to the ecosystem. Go figure, I might know a think or two about my local ecosystem!

Oh, hey, I'm genuinely glad to hear that you're doing something productive. And if rats come to you bird feeder, fair game. It's just that what you said about dogs being "useful in general" and rats being "only useful in labs" sounded really dumb. But, as always, context is good. So let me retract what I said about ecosystems. You have my full support in that regard. I'm not one to try and "win" when arguing with someone -- mutual understanding is my jam.

As to rats, I don't particularly like them. I never had one as a pet and I don't intend to. That said, I've got nothing against them either. My point is, rats are not outdoor pets. No sane person will let their pet rat go outside and just roam around the neighborhood -- with cats around, a pet rat would get killed four times over before it reached your birdhouse. It'll get lost. It'll run away. If someone lets their pet rat out of the house, they're the one responsible for the rat's inevitable death. So yeah, your visions of slaughtering "support rats" (if such a thing even exists -- I'll take your word for it) sound like weird fantasies that you air on the internet for some reason.

And lastly, when it comes to your pronoun jokes, I'm very typical in that regard. Straight cis male, very hard to offend, whether intentionally or unintentionally. And I'm not even that young, although probably younger than you. I just prefer the way young people think to how old people think. And I believe that their openness to vulnerability and willingess to help themselves emotionally is much healthier than the approach you're presenting here. If someone needs a "support rat", hell, I'm all for them having a support rat. Nothing wrong with that. And you can keep on giggling -- expect giggling in return.

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MarkHirsbrunner t1_iue4jvq wrote

I'm 50, it's not age making that guy a weirdo, he's just been so brainwashed he lumps all things he scorns together - non-binary people, emotional support animals, rats, young people

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AitchyB t1_iucm28m wrote

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen video of a dumpster over-run with black and white fancy rats.

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GuyDarras t1_iubq0z4 wrote

Excuse me, what?

Outdoor and stray cats wreak absolute havoc on bird and other wildlife populations and there's a movement to ban pet rats?

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Isotope_Soap t1_iubv89b wrote

From the Alberta Gov website:

Report a rat Email: 310rats@gov.ab.ca. Phone: 310-FARM (3276) Phone your local bylaw Agriculture Fieldmen office.

0 tolerance for rodents of the rat variety, pet rats included.

History of Rat Control in Alberta

I’m all aboard for equal treatment of cats and rats.

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Dana07620 t1_iucku2l wrote

How do you feel about other invasive species? Like the most damaging invasive species on the planet....Homo sapiens. That species is only native to southern Africa.

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Isotope_Soap t1_iucl4yp wrote

Honest thoughts? I believe there’s about 6.5 billion too many of them for a healthy planet.

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chriswaco t1_iubg7h3 wrote

Rats make wonderful pets. My brother had one in college that he liberated from a bio lab.

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I_Automate t1_iuce3v9 wrote

Neat.

Rats also make great disease vectors and destroy crops.

I'm sure you think a rat is a great pet. That doesn't mean they should be pets.

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FTM_2022 t1_iuchuv0 wrote

Dogs kill and maim people, cats kill billions of wildlife each year....both also carry diseases that can be transmitted to humans.

So by your logic they also don't make great pets.

I

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donkdonkboom t1_iubjw0a wrote

Just bought one of those rat bucket traps, gonna bucket me some rats.

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binchinapinch t1_iubla23 wrote

The rats will LOVE this announcement

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DennisMoves t1_iubraal wrote

These work really well. Quick easy disposal of kill. https://www.victorpest.com/victor-electronic-rat-trap-cm241

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hicow t1_iuc1et5 wrote

My house got invaded with mice. I lost count, but I've caught something around 20. I got an electrocution trap, which caught/killed three mice. The live-catch traps caught most of the rest. What finally stopped them was D-Con. I didn't even really want to poison them, but there were a number that were apparently too smart for the traps.

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Dana07620 t1_iuckjl2 wrote

I used live traps. It was easy to catch the mice. I took them out to a field and released them. Caught dozens of them. And eventually took care of the problem.

But the rats (which came after the mice problem was over) were too smart for their own good. I only managed to catch one juvenile rat...who I watered, fed and released. I even put fried chicken in the trap and couldn't catch them.

Finally put poison down and hated doing it when I saw the blood trail one rat left behind dragging themself across the garage.

Happily a cat came into my life. The cat didn't hunt the rats. But the rats must have smelled the cat and decided not to move in for the winter (which is when they'd come into the attic).

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hicow t1_iucpl8b wrote

I had a cat that passed last summer. I figure that might have something to do with the mice coming in. Haven't gotten another because vet's offices are still just bonkers and I'd like them to be something close to normal again before I get another cat.

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HKei t1_iuck5v9 wrote

I had a similar issue. Didn't want to poison or kill any mice, but I had been catching and releasing mice for like 2 weeks and it just wasn't working.

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hicow t1_iucphzh wrote

I went months. What finally tore it was a mouse on the counter while I was cooking.

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flxstr t1_iuc1gf5 wrote

oh good. now my neighbour can stop calling me the cat killer.

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[deleted] t1_iuc2dxc wrote

[deleted]

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crazycanuks t1_iudigr6 wrote

Most Canadian cities have free municipal chemical disposal centers to avoid this very problem.

This is my city.

https://www.citywindsor.ca/residents/waste-and-recycling/household-chemical-waste/pages/household-chemical-waste-depot.aspx

General info for Ontario.

https://www.productcare.org/products/hhw/ontario/

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[deleted] t1_iue1pct wrote

[deleted]

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crazycanuks t1_iufm4he wrote

I believe that is correct, I'm probably being foolishly optimistic that companies would dispose of it properly.

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indiegamesnumba1 t1_iucpalx wrote

"They must know it was the rats; the slithering, scurrying rats whose scampering will never let me sleep; the daemon rats that race behind the padding in this room and beckon me down to greater horrors than I have ever known; the rats they can never hear; the rats, the rats in the walls"

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chockedup t1_iuigwuf wrote

It's been reported elsewhere that wild animal populations are declining. It seems they're trying to improve the health of the remaining animals that feed on dead rats, due to the widespread movement of rat poisons through the animal food chain.

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pirate_republic OP t1_iuk4mgz wrote

yes and that is because of mans ravaging the wilderness for profit.
tell me how banning rat poison in cities helps wild animals?

maybe British Columbia should clean up the mess its making province wide, and the reasons every city are covered in rats.
they are a plague in every town and city in british columbia for anyone who makes less then $50K a year and the neighborhood they live in.

you notice the rich can still hire professionals to poison rats in their neighborhoods.

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jardex22 t1_iuc0u0r wrote

Hey, still plenty of options. Rope, pipe, candlestick, revolver, etc.

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Automatic_Basket_926 t1_iud4b2x wrote

Look I realize it's unethical, but it's extremely effective at eliminating rats. Rats are very intelligent and snap traps do not usually work. Well licensed exterminators still be able to use poison?

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Fortifical t1_iud1k6o wrote

We tried that in my neighborhood and the local park was basically overrun with rats. Do not recommend. At least for urban areas, you need that nasty poison.

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CultofHappy t1_iuay651 wrote

B.C. Welcome to NYC. Not sure what I mean? You will.

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Illustrous_potentate t1_iubjquq wrote

My niece did a ridealong with the police in Vancouver. Skid row area. She said she saw rats that were the size of cats, in the alleys.

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Kakkoister t1_iuayzqp wrote

Meh, it's easy to make your own rat bait that kills them, such as baking soda treats that cause their internals to rupture from gas. Or boric acid and even plaster of paris if you wanna get supervillain about it.

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