Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

Morbo2142 t1_iyd10zm wrote

The problem with stochastic terrorism and propaganda is how easy it is to lose control of the narative.

This was probably some Russian sympathizer who's brain has been turned to mush by Russian propaganda.

It sounds too amateur for an actual Russian gov operation. Not to mention it doesn't accomplish or further any of their current goals.

No idea why Spain of all places. Could be the history of fascism with Franco and all that. The soviets were heavily involved in that war.

210

KyloRen3 t1_iyd3zd6 wrote

Spain has a HUGE number of Russians living there, particularly around Alicante, Valencia, Málaga...

104

AntiBox t1_iye0tk7 wrote

> It sounds too amateur for an actual Russian gov operation

It sounds exactly like their bungled Salisbury assassination attempt.

32

The_Food_Scientist OP t1_iyd1tbz wrote

You are quite spot on. The extreme left in Spain is full of Russia sympathisers. Mainly because the soviet union was the only country that offered real support in the Spanish civil war to fight off the fascist uprising and once the ww2 ended it was the main supporter of the Spanish communist party, the main opposition to Franco. Since then the Spanish left has moved away from communism but it was always tainted from a pro russian bias inherited from a pro soviet bias (like if Russia had anything in common with the soviet union). Now a days is something that only manifest in very niche ultra leftist groups. I remember a protest in support of the LPR and DPR in my city at the begging of the war with around 25 people in my city ( >150k habitats) but you just need one crazy asshole to make this kind of action.

22

druizzz t1_iydsih9 wrote

Lol, the only Russia sympathisers in Spain are from Vox, the party of the extreme right. Not long ago their were praising Putin for being the best politician in the world.

55

24offsuit t1_iydzlcm wrote

Untrue.

The far left AND far right are somewhat pro-Putin or anti-NATO and against support to Ukraine, albeit for totally different reasons. There is a crossover. It's kind of weird and on the fringe for both the left and the right but there is a small element on both sides.

25

ACCount82 t1_iyeqap4 wrote

And people still try to say that horseshoe theory is wrong.

7

1994mat t1_iyf5dns wrote

it's not horseshoe theory where theres this 2 far outer edges coming back together, it's one straight line with the far-left and far-right being super anti western establishment and wanting more populist brainrot

1

dymdymdymdym t1_iyf3nia wrote

It is, there are times where it makes some convenient mirages though.

−1

bjornbamse t1_iyf4c1w wrote

Depends on what is understood as horseshoe theory. Both sides arrive at the same solution, but for very different reasons.

5

ACCount82 t1_iyf6zlf wrote

I don't think it's a stretch to say that many radicals are similar to each other - not in declared ideals, but in observable methods and behaviors. There's a point when this radical zeal and "anti-establishment" thinking overrides any other thought process.

Which is how radical right and radical left have managed to converge on hating NATO and sucking it up to Putin in many countries. As they did before on COVID restrictions, and long before that on trying to "cancel" media for wrongthink, and before that, and before that. Radicalization is enemy of thinking - which horseshoe theory illustrates.

5

[deleted] t1_iye7l0s wrote

[deleted]

0

24offsuit t1_iye91c4 wrote

I meant that, pro-Putin / anti-nato depending on political leaning. I'll edit my post to make it clearer.

1

The_Food_Scientist OP t1_iydyipc wrote

True, but if you talk with militants of Izquierda Unida specially older ones you will find that they have kind of a soviet nostalgy and are very anti NATO

−6

Murtellich t1_iye75o4 wrote

You can be both anti-NATO and anti-Putin. I'm a IU voter who sees NATO as a necessary evil and is anti-Putin.

17

kaisadilla_ t1_iye9x2k wrote

You are flat out misinforming people here. Almost nobody at any point in the left spectrum in Spain supports Russia. A few trolls on Twitter aren't representative of the "extreme left". Twitter is not real life. At most you can say that some elder far-left people don't support NATO and don't want to take sides in this war. But that doesn't mean they support Russia or Putin in any way.

12

xsairon t1_iyf310c wrote

idk what ur talking about ive never, ever seen or heard about a leftist that supports putin and what he's doing

there's plenty of communists, but putin supporters? only in the far right because he had the image of being a strong leader, hates lgbt stuff and the new "western" progressive wave, and that's about it.

7

Grunchlk t1_iydceuv wrote

>This was probably some Russian sympathizer who's brain has been turned to mush by Russian propaganda.

Sure but if it were an Iranian expatriate doing this to an Israeli embassy it would be widely regarded as a state sponsored terror attack and Iran itself would be culpable and subject to reprisals.

As it stands you're effectively painting it as "a passionate expatriate that got a little carried away." It's terrorism. Russia is executing a terrorist campaign in Russia and encouraging, either directly or indirectly, its expatriates to do the same.

20

Morbo2142 t1_iyde3z9 wrote

Stochastic terrorism is what you described. And I believe what I called it. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/stochastic-terrorism.

The government didn't carry out the attack but they encouraged and directed the behavior.

It's irresponsible to call an attack state sponsored unless there is proof the state had a direct involvement in planning and/doing the attack.

I don't disagree with you. It's hard to parse out what the Russian government is doing these days, what with all the reports of state approved warcrimes, terrorism, and gross human rights violations.

Also Iran isn't invading Isreal at the moment, so it would be a bit more of a surprise given all the happenings in Iran as of late.

11

TheRC135 t1_iye0322 wrote

> It sounds too amateur for an actual Russian gov operation.

At this point I'd be tempted to argue the opposite. Have you seen their military?

9