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Elipses_ t1_j214rln wrote

Something that I can't help but wonder, why is the idea of allowing Jews to pray at their most holy site such a red line? As far as I can see, there isn't any talk of forbidding Muslims from getting to do so, just of allowing Jews to do so as well.

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[deleted] t1_j21nrav wrote

[removed]

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PublicFurryAccount t1_j21vswv wrote

What’s funny is that the significance is mostly about conquering it from the Byzantines.

If Palestinians and Muslims hadn’t gotten left-coded decades ago, it would be obvious to everyone that this is insane, Confederate monument-level horseshit.

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frosthowler t1_j235h0x wrote

left-coded? I have never heard this term, what do you mean by that?

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PublicFurryAccount t1_j237108 wrote

It's been socially coded as a left-wing issue.

Various forms of nationalism and religion don't have a natural coding. Nationalism of all kinds is just as easily coded as a right-wing concept and Islam was, prior to 9/11, hotly contested in the US between left and right, whether it was right- or left-wing depended on whether you were emphasizing Muslims as outsiders or as staunch social conservatives.

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YairJ t1_j23bbg4 wrote

Your comment to the following one seems to have been hidden.

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frosthowler t1_j23ez0f wrote

huh? where? I don't seem to see anything that seems to be missing

edit: oh wow, it was, opened with a private browser. I still see it. Since no mod contacted me and I definitely didn't break any rules, guess I'll repost it.

Edit2: I think it's just impossible to reply to him? Anything I post doesn't appear when I look at it at a private window

/u/PublicFurryAccount are you alive?

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PublicFurryAccount t1_j23fhbx wrote

You probably blocked someone or was blocked by someone up thread.

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frosthowler t1_j23fsh3 wrote

How? I'm talking to you just fine here. It's only that particular comment of yours that is shadow-banned/hidden. I can reply to it (blocks stop you from making the comment at all, doesn't make it hidden.)

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Persianx6 t1_j22tord wrote

Well yes, it is. But the Palestinians also believe in some straight from the book horseshit about Islam's third holiest site in the Dome of the Rock, so we get to see eternal struggle between two groups claiming mandates from god until they decide enough's enough or make it so the other doesn't exist.

Truly fun discussion.

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PublicFurryAccount t1_j22ub9n wrote

Well, from an American perspective, this is sectarian horseshit that has little place in polite conversation, let alone governance.

In a just world, this would have been resolved as all sides died of shame.

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TheMaskedTom t1_j23ckn8 wrote

How lucky you must be living in a country devoid of sectarian bullshit in political and societal conversation.

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medfreak t1_j218eso wrote

Who is forbidding them? The Western wall is entirely manned by Jewish worshippers. What they want to do is demolish the Aqsa mosque, which is one of the three most holly mosques in Islam, along with Mecca and Medina, for almost 1400 years.

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Elipses_ t1_j219za7 wrote

Hey, I an just going by the article itself, wherein the Jordanian king mentions that Jews being allowed to pray on the Temple Mount is one of the Red Lines.

I see no mention of demolishing the third most holy Muslim site, merely of Jewish prayer at the 1st most holy site in Judaism?

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YairJ t1_j21la7x wrote

> What they want to do is demolish the Aqsa mosque

This libel is over 90 years old.

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Moonshine206 t1_j2328d1 wrote

It may not be the official agenda of the Israeli government for the time being. But many Israelis dream about the day that they do demolish it. The same Israelis that the government of Israel escorts atop the aqsa compound are the ones most excited for such destruction. Sooner or later some of them would try to raze it like in 1969

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frosthowler t1_j235jrh wrote

you need to quit with the moonshine, or otherwise leave /r/worldnews for /r/conspiracy

I can find Americans that want to militarily conquer and annex the whole of Europe, that doesn't mean America or Americans want to conquer Europe.

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Moonshine206 t1_j236c7q wrote

The incoming israeli police and public security minister is non other than ben gvir. Ben gvir used to have pictures of baruch Goldstein hanged around his house like some glorified saint. Go look up who Goldstein is and tell me what moonshine are the Israeli government on

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Ayylmaothoughyaknow t1_j21kjrc wrote

Israel has policing in place at sights disallowing worship for Jews because it makes the hamas and their backers shit their pants, cry, and try to kill same Israelis citizens.

Easier to expect civility from your citizens and ask them to understand they can’t pray there for public safety as an appeasement effort or whatever than to let them go and risk them getting attacked or retaliatory attacks. Even if they shoot down almost all the incoming rockets and one lands with only property damage, and there’s an increase in attacks on civilians but for the most part increased spending and enforcement works, it’s just NOT worth it for praying at a holy site.

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phdthrowaway110 t1_j22tppg wrote

That's a bunch of nonsense. Israel prevents Jews from praying at the temple mount because it's is against rabbinical law. The law is there to appease right wing rabbis, not hamas.

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frosthowler t1_j235ojb wrote

> it's is against rabbinical law.

I don't know where you heard it, but this is wrong. The Temple Mount is a large complex and the school of thought that the Holy of Holies could've been anywhere on it is fringe. There are countless places to worship that are considered safe.

More people think the Dome of the Rock is where the Holy of Holies stood (and that's controversial) than people who think it could've been anywhere. Israeli governments in the past have amplified these voices in order to convince mostly secular Jews who didn't know better to not go to the Temple Mount as tourists. Those who actually might be interested in praying understand the situation.

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YairJ t1_j234h12 wrote

The Jewish religious disagreements are basically about entering certain places on the Mount, prayer has nothing to do with it and it's not Jews who commit or threaten violence in response. The Waqf wouldn't have the run of the place if these rules were enforced.

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[deleted] t1_j21ldo2 wrote

[removed]

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YairJ t1_j21n80i wrote

Muslims and other non-Jews are allowed to pray at the Western Wall. That arson attack is often blamed on Jews(as usual) but was not even done by one. Israeli police and the Jordanian Waqf have been preventing Jews from praying on the Temple Mount, bringing religious paraphernalia etc. And you are making excuses.

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