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deftoner42 t1_j619nx6 wrote

Reply to comment by reuters in A Russian graveyard reveals Wagner's prisoner army by reuters

>if prisoners survived six months at the front

if they survived. You better believe they get forced to sign up for conscription if they survived.

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panda_gravy t1_j61hrc5 wrote

Nope! They just extend those 6 months forever, and if you say no? Sledgehammer time!

Some Wagner commander escaped to Norway and tried to get asylum because of that.

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Graega t1_j61xt6d wrote

That was pretty much gonna be my guess. The commissar makes up some crime a guy committed and executes him in front of the rest of the slave-soldiers to ensure that they stay in line. The next one who survives in the next one in the firing line.

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isjahammer t1_j639m99 wrote

I'm gonna take a guess here and say that would vary a lot even in different groups of Wagner. Impossible that all of them don't have anything humane left in them. But I guess it's the job of western news/propaganda to make them look as bad as possible. Disturbing occurrences just make for more clicks then saying there have been some cases of...

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johnnybeehive t1_j63cdts wrote

Wtf...

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isjahammer t1_j63ep6g wrote

Just want to keep a realistic estimate. Seems that reddit loves to make every single russian and soldier the literal devil without any refinement. I understand though because that's the easy way to go for most people that doesn't require any empathy or deeper thinking.

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johnnybeehive t1_j63etrn wrote

I imagine you think a sizeable portion of these people are just doing their jobs.

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Hairless_Ape_ t1_j643aoi wrote

Wagner is literally recruiting violent criminals. These aren't tax cheats. The system most highly incentivizes those serving the longest sentences, so it's the murders and rapists that are first to volunteer. So I am indeed short on empathy, but I think it's you who is short on critical thinking.

Given that Russia (through its predecessor, the USSR) still holds the world championship for civilian rapes (Berlin, 1945), then maybe you think that the Wagner guys are indeed just regular Russian soldiers...

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isjahammer t1_j64jkjb wrote

They are recruiting criminals. But a) not in the higher ranks and b) not everyone in Wagner is a criminal.

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Hairless_Ape_ t1_j64ksxw wrote

"Only some of them are convinced murderers and rapists, so they're really very nice people."

There doesn't exist enough napalm to give each and every invader exactly what they deserve.

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axonxorz t1_j65aqh8 wrote

b) but they are still soldiers fighting in a war that their government started

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Millerbomb t1_j64azca wrote

> job of western news/propaganda

Wagner uploading videos of them killing their own man with a sledge hammer does the work for western news

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LatterTarget7 t1_j65ausp wrote

I mean this is like saying not everyone in the ss could’ve been that bad.

The Wagner group in Africa entire job is to clean out villages.

Their job in Ukraine is to kill any Russians who retreat. They also rape and beat the Russians before execution. They kill their own men if they don’t follow orders.

There’s no one left in the ranks besides the absolute worst. Cause if you aren’t the worst you are raped beaten and executed

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ErikTheAngry t1_j627j0h wrote

Fingers crossed they give them all asylum. Encourage as many defections as they can. It hurts the war effort.

And then when it's all over, send every last one of them to The Hague for a reckoning of what they did in Ukraine, Africa, and everywhere else Wagner has operated.

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oliilo1 t1_j631oky wrote

Nah, we don't want Russian criminals.
I'd much rather incentivize them to start a civil war in Russia. Convince Prigozhin he has a chance of taking out Putin and look like a good guy.

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synapticrelease t1_j631xce wrote

civil war is not what you want with a nuclear power.

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IcarusOnReddit t1_j643m90 wrote

Once the government falls, the west can send some troops to each silo as a peacekeeping force. Deactivate them. Leave.

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synapticrelease t1_j64ji8n wrote

Lol ok.

I’m not even going to get into how heavily defended silos are. Talking literal bunkers with feet thick walls and doors designed not to get broken into simultaneously into triple digit sites deep into Russia which would require a coordinated effort from multiple fronts.

Yeah. It’ll go without a hitch 👍

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Westfakia t1_j64t5q7 wrote

And who decides what happens to the fissionable components? You can’t exactly leave them lying around.

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IcarusOnReddit t1_j64u03w wrote

Throw em in a helicopter and take them?

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Westfakia t1_j64z601 wrote

Take them where?

Who’s gonna approve a flight plan for fissionables across international borders?

This isn’t tinkertoys, it’s weapons grade uranium and plutonium. I don’t want it flying anywhere near me, keeping it on the ground is much safer. The stuff is also highly sought after by undesirables, so it needs to be done with the utmost in security. Easier said than done.

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ParanoidDroid t1_j63gsuc wrote

And if they succeed? Do you actually want Wagner mercs in charge of Russia? It's just one monster for another. They should be sent to the Hague to answer for their war crimes and imprisoned imo.

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deftoner42 t1_j61ihu4 wrote

I read this morning they denied him and sent him back. Lol... he's in trouble.

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avpthehuman t1_j61kitk wrote

Quite the opposite, actually. He applied for asylum and will soon be released.

> "The Norwegian police are planning to release a former member of the Russian mercenary group Wagner who was arrested for entering the country illegally after he fled Russia earlier this month, the National Police Immigration Service told local media on Wednesday"

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/01/25/norwegian-police-to-release-russian-wagner-deserter-a80042

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deftoner42 t1_j61lyyz wrote

Ahh my bad, I read it on the r/worldnews live thread, probably a reason why I can't find the post again.

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bak3donh1gh t1_j6255uf wrote

The Norwegians will give someone to another state for execution? Look i don't love the russians and any of them in Ukraine should expect to die, but booting someone back will just give the others reasons to stay and fight, or at least die.

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Dudelies t1_j628osn wrote

No they will not.

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bak3donh1gh t1_j62esg2 wrote

not fight or not leave. Cuz if they cant leave they're either getting executed by their 'commanders' or getting shot/shelled by ukrainians. As execution by sledgehammer is not how I'd want to go. Not that I want to go getting shot by Ukrainian since Slava Ukraine!

Or Norway wont transfer someone with the death penalty, cuz thats whats waiting for the guy. Whether or not Russia admits it on paper or not.

Edit: Ok sorry I misread the response or rather it wasn't clear. He's been released into Norway if I understand correctly.

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JustForThisClaps t1_j62pebl wrote

He was arrested for entering the country illegally and will now get released from this arrest.

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Dudelies t1_j62f6rc wrote

The Norwegians will not send him back

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MerfinStone t1_j62c7zk wrote

I liked that moment when Prigozhin said: "It's hammer time!" and sledged all over the room

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Pillowsmeller18 t1_j61a9dk wrote

If they survived the Ukranians, im betting they didnt survive the 2nd line forces ready to shoot their comrades.

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Cheesesticks1977 t1_j61jp13 wrote

Imagine prison being so bad there that knowing you might not survive six months on the Frontline is a better option.

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herbsandlace t1_j61mxlc wrote

Some of the men that are coming back now were in the first years of their 9+ year imprisonment. This does tell you the types of crimes they were in for though since in Russia a simple murder (one person killed another person) is usually 7-9 years. There are also rumors that some of the survivors who have been released may not really have done any fighting since some of them are very rich due to their criminal past.

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RickytyMort t1_j61zxqw wrote

What, you think Russia is going to let those prisoners loose on the general population while they are shortstaffed at the front?

They'll be sent right back as meatshields. Russia puts innocents in gulags for bogus crimes and beats them to death. No way they are going to honor some promises they made to convicts.

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bak3donh1gh t1_j625w67 wrote

No hes saying that rich ones get their family to pay for them to get a bogus 6 months service and get released, the rest die, eventually. I don't know the stats but some of the people have to be either good people or people who protested either this war or Pootin and are now being fed to a meat grinder because a man with a small dick thought war was the best way to make a legacy. The time that was possible is basically over; there's no legacy if everyone's dead, and that kinda the only way to win a war currently with a nuclear power.

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chewiezzzz t1_j62qibv wrote

I've read a story recently about a businessman who was sentenced for a quadruple murder of a family of his business partner and an attempted murder of his niece, both times using contracted killers. He joined Wagner and went free and unharmed after 6 months of service, then flew to Turkey.

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synapticrelease t1_j6320mu wrote

They have to honor it because if word comes back to prisons that they aren’t honoring the deal, no one else is going to sign up

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DCrichieelias79 t1_j632xac wrote

Haha, you think they have a choice.

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synapticrelease t1_j63fjju wrote

They wouldn't go around making pleas for prisoners if they could just simply pluck them out.

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DCrichieelias79 t1_j63gclo wrote

They write stories for the public that they are making pleas for prisoners. Just the same as they write stories that they are only conscripting 300,000 or 500,000 able bodied men of a certain age.

The reality in Russia when they show up with papers to sign is the other hand is holding a hammer.

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synapticrelease t1_j63kbum wrote

hm. I'm not buying it.

If it's a big PR thing, then why even write that you're having to dig for prisoners rather than just saying they were patriotic volunteers.

Also, we have the words from captured Wagner forces themselves.

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DCrichieelias79 t1_j63m4mh wrote

Those very same wagner POWs are the ones saying the prisoners are basically meatshields sent out to soak bullets. There is zero intent to let them survive. Only the ones with families wealthy enough to pay bribes get to come back alive.

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synapticrelease t1_j63rooe wrote

Yes I agree with you. But that’s not the same as what we are talking about.

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hurleyburleyundone t1_j6327ib wrote

Dudes not wrong.

You think its implausible that a mercenary army wouldnt take money from a crime boss to look the other way? Its criminals dealing with criminals and free profit.

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Baneken t1_j633z49 wrote

And likely in typical Russian fashion a thick wad of cash handed to local Wagner Brigade-General who takes the pile and admits that "war doesn't need one man" and lets him get off easy by putting the guy into laundry-duty for 6 months or something instead of being in the reserve-list for the next suicide-wave at Bahmut.

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Ouatcheur t1_j67kfec wrote

Except for a few of the prisoners that got filthy rich through their crimes.

In a country led by oligarchs and kleptocrats, where even the military is super corrupted from top military general all the way down to mere squad leaders, money always talks. As long as one can pay a sufficient amount of big bribes, he can walk away scott free and makec a *lot* of "behind the scenes" deals. Or be relatively treated ok (or even with favors) while remaining in prison.

This does't include those that were super duper filthy rich: those just bribed their entire sentence right away in the first place, and never went to prison.

But the "merely" criminally rich might have preferred to hang on to their illicit cash secretly, while remaining patient and in prison until they get out and then live well, because bribing their wait out prematurely would mean that once out they wouldn't be rich anymore. But now that "choice" has turned into either keeping your secret riches but going to the front and probably die, vs freedom and relative safety albeit not rich anymore.

But that probably applies only to a few. Most prisoners just would not have the money to make those kind of "deals".

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daimemo t1_j61uwuv wrote

All things aside, its a different approach to punishment. In most western countries the imprisonment and the lack of freedom are the punishment itself. And other countries the lack of freedom is just part of the punishment.

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Ouatcheur t1_j67jgwx wrote

I fully expect those that don't want to sign for the conscription to be "gently encouraged" to do so by the reputedly ever so fair annd amiable Russian police, military, and prison staff.

"No torture involved no sirrreree, never! They all jumped at the chance to defend the homeland, and all signed volontarily!"

(Said eery Russsian media spokesperson)

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bigbangbilly t1_j61rq69 wrote

It's like that Lord of the Rings second dinner meme but with second conscription

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crashcanuck t1_j6468xf wrote

Or the pardon doesn't mean they get to stop fighting, it just means they are pardoned for their crimes.

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iVladi t1_j62ph6p wrote

There are videos of Wagner sending them home with a hearty goodbye, this isnt true.

Wagner has more recruits than they need currently as they only have 1 base and word of their successes spread.

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wwosik t1_j62rwd9 wrote

is that putin's own account?

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iVladi t1_j62twvt wrote

Just because you don't like the information, doesn't make it false. The guy above is simply speculating, when there is evidence of the complete contrary that exists.

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html_question_guy t1_j6325b6 wrote

>Wagner has more recruits than they need currently

Wagner tactics literally involve sending waves of people to their death to deplete Ukrainians of ammunition and locate their soldiers. There's probably over a hundred videos demonstrating this just at Bakhmut alone. The idea that Wagner doesn't need new recruits is laughable.

But then again, most things tankies say are laughable

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iVladi t1_j6807zw wrote

BBC themselves found Russia has suffered only 12k casualties (potentially 60% more) by mid Jan, so worst case it's around 20k. We had Ursula herself confirm 100k Ukrainian soldier deaths way back in November.

So either those "suicide squads" are really damn effective or maybe, just maybe, listening only to Ukraine propaganda doesn't really fully explain how shock troops that identify targets to shell really work. Because as it turns out its really damn effective and a whole lot better than Ukraines tactic of sending waves of troops to sit in trenches to eat shells.

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[deleted] t1_j66w2g7 wrote

"word of their successes spread", yeah they’re very successful in transitioning to corpses in Ukraine

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iVladi t1_j680bqt wrote

A whole lot fewer corpses than Ukraine.

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