Comments
EERsFan4Life t1_j6j2wsp wrote
Welcome to the world of export controls.
stickles_ t1_j6knv4t wrote
Or the world of government in general, people will always find a way around a law no matter how well that law is enforced.
It's harder to do in some cases, but where there's a will there's a way.
Daveinatx t1_j6lwouq wrote
If owners and execs were sent to prison, with a large proportional fine, the numbers would be reduced.
Winds_Howling2 t1_j6kqouo wrote
Welcome to the world of private choice. Companies, if not compelled otherwise, will have their interests and will try their best to serve such interests, to serve Russian market needs, especially military market needs.
It's like the US recently being shocked at American companies in large part assisting the skyrocketing Chinese tech industries through initial development stages of chip-making, and then the US govt. forgetting all notions of freedom in trade and banning this international affair, which forced private American companies previously doing big business with China, like NVIDIA, to take significant business losses. It will be the people within the most ardent opposition countries to Russia, that will be the most interested in assisting it. They will find a way to assist it one way or another.
Dropped-pie t1_j6kr12a wrote
Because China is fucked, yeah?
Winds_Howling2 t1_j6krrhe wrote
It remains to be seen, as they are now incentivised to develop their own, or take Taiwanese chips, now that they've been cut off from freedom chips. It will mainly come down to how well the enforcement regime upholds the barrier that the US has asked to be upheld, and how successful China is in doing chips from scratch.
[deleted] t1_j6luurr wrote
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professorDissociate t1_j6l5157 wrote
You mean like the orange baboon who sent an armed and angry crowd to the capital on Jan 6?
I was doubtful of your statement, but then I remembered shit like this happens all the time.
bubba-yaga t1_j6mngsg wrote
Usa sanction is not law. It is just a showcase of their political power exerted onto smaller developed/developing nations.
If this war drags on, people/businesses will find ways to avoid it.
DevoidHT t1_j6j3tbg wrote
The most glaring issue of free market economies. If you sell to one person, you’re selling to everyone. There’s always someone that is willing to skirt sanctions to make a quick buck.
Flatus_Diabolic t1_j6k9olg wrote
Greed isn't always the reason.
Iran, NK, Russia, and lots of other heavily sanctioned countries just create front companies overseas to buy the goods they need.
I knew a guy worked for a company waaaay back in the day that sold a couple of supercomputers to a Western European company that did meteorological simulation.
A few months later, the feds were crawling all over them because those computers had inexplicably ended up in totally different country and were being used for nuclear weapons research.
I guess, maybe in the excitement to make a big sale, someone didn't do their due diligence as well as they should have, but this front company wasn't exactly a couple of post office boxes and an empty building somewhere, either.
It had all the relevant legal paperwork and finances to say they were legit, everything checked out, so why not sell to them?
killerhurtalot t1_j6l7l06 wrote
Sounds like greed to me. That's just a feature of capitalism...
When you have the resources of nation states, you can easily make shell companies to buy whatever you want.
Just look at how the US bought most of the titanium used for the SR71 blackbird from Russia lol.
Yelmel t1_j6j7ie6 wrote
Well, yes apparently on this sanctions regime, but you see very effective solutions out there. Take NAFTA import duty-free terms and conditions (I'm a career functionary) as an example.
You have a penalties associated with breaches of the trade rules, and the income from the penalties are respendable revenue to bolster the auditing programs. So catching these guys is not just a slap on the wrist, it's a slap on the wrist, a hit to the pocket, and a guarantee that they'll be back for more. Those assholes wanting to risk making a quick buck end up paying the enforcement cost. Ask a Canadian or American about cross-border purchasing. If they do it, they know the rules, and they follow them.
We should not throw our hands in the air and give up.
moknine1189 t1_j6jy3sb wrote
Glad I read til the last sentence, exactly my sentiment. Thanks for the laugh.
Infinite-Outcome-591 t1_j6khbnh wrote
If caught, jail for 20
micro102 t1_j6l4tqy wrote
Yeah, I feel there should be physical consequences for people caught doing this.
Deep-Mention-3875 t1_j6iyhv5 wrote
Sanction the leadership of the chinese reseller companies, blacklist them so they cant work for any companies that do businesses with the west ever again.
There must be personal consequences.
Gluca23 t1_j6j7j4m wrote
The leadership is their govern.
maakera007 t1_j6jcwvf wrote
What's to stop then just replacing the leadership of those companies and just doing it again?
Shouldn't China itself be sanctioned for reselling computer chips to russia?
I'd think it should be the responsibility of each nation to make sure their citizens don't break international rules/sanctions, but hey, i'm no expert.
killerhurtalot t1_j6l86of wrote
There isn't. It's just a feature of capitalism. You can spend money to bypass a lot of inconveniences.
Deep-Mention-3875 t1_j6k3jq1 wrote
There isnt.
But if we destory the person liveryhood of people doing this then other people would be discouraged to also do this.
People dont understand how devastating being sanctioned and blacklisted by the US federal govt really is. If there is a $1 of federal funding on the entire chain any sanctioned person is not allowed to participate. These people would be barred from interacting with ANY entity that deals with the federal govt.
axonxorz t1_j6l0qq3 wrote
Yeah that's not the silver bullet you think it is. As with other China firms, a lot are willing to skirt sanctions as they will never have to deal with a US Federal Government contract.
Deep-Mention-3875 t1_j6l2um0 wrote
Sure but even chinese companies that interact with american/western companies wont be able to hire them. Eventually ccp has to hire them and how many can ccp support? 100k? 1 million? 10 million?
axonxorz t1_j6l3z08 wrote
> Sure but even chinese companies that interact with american/western companies wont be able to hire them.
There are a billion people in China. If we were to assume they had half the rate of business ownership as the US, there are somewhere in the realm of 12 MILLION enterprises. That's a massive number. The majority of those are tiny, and will never have to interact with the Fed, or any Western company in any way whatsoever. It's massively Americentric to think otherwise.
> Eventually ccp has to hire them and how many can ccp support?
Up to and including literally every single worker, based on how big enterprise is legislated with regards to it's CCP "relationship"
Deep-Mention-3875 t1_j6l6ke4 wrote
> There are a billion people in China. If we were to assume they had half the rate of business ownership as the US, there are somewhere in the realm of 12 MILLION enterprises. That's a massive number. The majority of those are tiny, and will never have to interact with the Fed, or any Western company in any way whatsoever. It's massively Americentric to think otherwise.
Sure ofc US cant 100% stop them but sanctioning every single executive known to be doing this and continuously applying pressure will likely overwhelm the operation to reduce their effectiveness. Unless you’re a chinese peasant in a remote village most likely somewhere along the supply chain they interact with some sort of a western company. Sanctions are effective but will take time and effort.
> Up to and including literally every single worker, based on how big enterprise is legislated with regards to it's CCP "relationship"
Lol nah no way. A sanctioned worker is pretty much useless in a high tech sector. And if ccp decide to support millions of them even better, that will sap their finances.
Mindless-Beginning-2 t1_j6j6wvj wrote
I mean there’s already sanctions on the Chinese chip sector, so not really sure what more should be done
Reselects420 t1_j6j3q1n wrote
> The largest was Sinno Electronics, which is named on U.S. sanctions lists, but not by the European Union.
456afisher t1_j6iuwuv wrote
Capitalism at its worst: We don't sell to Russia, we sell to China and they "give" them to Russia. headshake
Polydamass t1_j6jbljg wrote
I don’t think the West is supposed to sell chips to China either tbh. Wasn’t there sanctions against their chip sector?
duskwuff t1_j6jcd1t wrote
> Wasn’t there sanctions against their chip sector?
There are sanctions covering some types of semiconductor manufacturing equipment (i.e. machines that make ICs). We aren't preventing trade of finished semiconductor products; that would be a massive escalation.
Irr3l3ph4nt t1_j6kvzox wrote
>There are sanctions covering some types of semiconductor manufacturing equipment (i.e. machines that make ICs).
The US is preventing sale to China for some advanced semiconductor chips too, not just manufacturing equipment, software and plans. Nvidia even had to launch nerfed products in their AI hardware division to be able to sell them to China. Your statement is not accurate.
JamClam225 t1_j6jplcl wrote
Seems to me like people don't understand sanctions. Sanctions don't make it impossible for a country to obtain banned goods, they make it more expensive and time consuming.
There will always be a way around sanctions in a complex, global economy, but that doesn't mean they're not working.
autotldr t1_j6ivq0y wrote
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 70%. (I'm a bot)
> Several million microchips produced by Dutch manufacturers, including NXP and Nexperia, wound up in Russia last year in shipments that were handled by resellers after sanctions were in place as a consequence of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
> The broadcaster's researchers, including those working for magazine program Nieuwsuur, identified a small group of Chinese companies that would continuously supply computer chips to Russia after receiving them from the Dutch manufacturers.
> A spokesperson for Nexperia, headquartered in Nijmegen, told NOS that the resale of computer chips to third parties "Cannot always be controlled or prevented by us." The company said they use software to monitor the distribution chain involving their chips.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 chips^#2 sanctions^#3 found^#4 NXP^#5
scienceguy54 t1_j6jss9e wrote
Who was it that said: "Capitalists will even sell you the bullets to kill them with."?
dustofdeath t1_j6kecfy wrote
As long as you trade with counties that do not follow sanctions, you have loopholes. Intentional or not. You knowingly sell through third party or they resell without you knowing.
We need a general ban on high impact goods trade to countries not participating in sanctions.
JustMrNic3 t1_j6l8ht6 wrote
ING, Philips also are still operating in Russia!
Initial_E t1_j6laqep wrote
Soon we will know if these chips have been compromised by the NSA already. Hope the Russians know how to play this game of roulette.
[deleted] t1_j6iy25l wrote
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[deleted] t1_j6l9v28 wrote
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Funktastic34 t1_j6lbkaj wrote
There are only two things I can’t stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures… and the Dutch.
Ok-Delay5473 t1_j6lyjqb wrote
What? China again?
MagnusCaseus t1_j6jhh37 wrote
Welcome to globalism. If you want a world where you can buy something from halfway across the world, where products and culture can pass through borders easily, you're gonna have to accept you won't have 100% control over the things you export.
Sunnyjim333 t1_j6knl9l wrote
Don Corleone: "It's just business, nothing personal."
Infinite-Outcome-591 t1_j6kh5gj wrote
Holy crap Man, who approved this sale. All tech should be off the table in trade with RU. All their tech is channeled into the RU military industrial complex. I wouldn't sell them a light bulb.
yung_pindakaas t1_j6medh0 wrote
I can pretty much garuantee this went through loopholes and wasnt a straight sale where the sellers were aware.
A Chinese company which isnt sanctioned, or a western shellcompany can buy dutch chips, and then through some creative financial management resell them for insane profits to Russia.
Infinite-Outcome-591 t1_j6mut1o wrote
It's all blood money. Shame on them. Karma will get even with these indirect killers.
killerhurtalot t1_j6l8e03 wrote
Just a feature of capitalism and greed.
Yelmel t1_j6ivcq4 wrote
> Anyone found violating sanctions is cut off from future supplies.
Okay, it's the least we could do, but can we do more? Seems to me like this would just be a never-ending game of whack-a-mole, and stupid expensive to administer too.