Comments
zimtrovert94 t1_is8x5f5 wrote
I remember I saw a report on this.
If I recall correctly, a sizable portion of the kids who got accepted in top universities end up dropping out anyways because they didn’t learn the material in high school.
TimeFourChanges t1_is9s180 wrote
That's true of many black students from the hood. I've been teaching in one of the worst school districts in the country, and even when we can get a kid to graduate with decent looking credentials, they very seldomly graduate from the college - and then end up saddled with debt without a degree.
It's not only that the kids don't learn the essential knowledge, they don't learn/know the essentials of persverence, have immense issues with self-confidence due to stereotype threat, don't have the social capital, don't know how to take notes or study, etc. It's all-around quite depressing.
FILTHBOT4000 t1_isam1zr wrote
Saw it happen a lot in Atlanta with inner city schools and some other schools as well; they don't want to lose funding so they drop the testing standards and pressure teachers to pass students that have no business doing anything but failing, so they look like they have a decent % graduating. Then you have colleges stuck with a crop of students that learned fuckall in high school, and start pressuring college professors to drop their standards as well. Wasn't there an article recently about some biochem professor getting fired because he refused to lower testing standards?
winterfresh0 t1_isayv6a wrote
>Wasn't there an article recently about some biochem professor getting fired because he refused to lower testing standards?
I'd have to know the context for that one, sometimes that kind of story is actually just "professor is so bad at teaching that the majority of the class fails the exam because the professor didn't properly prepare them". Or even a situation where they teach or test a 200 level course as if it's a graduate level one, and then act like it's the students' fault when none of the sophomores know what's going on.
ishipbrutasha t1_isbxl8p wrote
>sometimes that kind of story is actually just "professor is so bad at teaching that the majority of the class fails the exam because the professor didn't properly prepare them".
When is this story every that?
Been teaching nearly two decades. My incoming university students couldn't handle the 9th grade curriculum from when I was in high school.
I've never had a colleague who was so poor a teacher the majority wound up failing due to their poor instruction. And I've disliked a fair number of my colleagues, but not enough to levy that criticism. There's a good number of "research" professors out there who may be ill-at-ease in a classroom, but I thought my first university students were poorly prepared NCLBers. I'd kill for those students now.
Marchesa-LuisaCasati t1_isnsyed wrote
As an undergrad, i took a graduate integrated cognitive psych class in the dark ages when you had to type in an exact web address to go anywhere on the internet. Back then, to use a computer i had to go to the lab because i couldn't afford to buy one. In that class, the professor was attempting to teach us to program digital neural networks. I had limited knowledge of computers outside of word processing which was still f-key driven. I dropped that class about 3 weeks in and never looked back. It was totally inappropriate for a 400-level class.
ishipbrutasha t1_isuldg8 wrote
>i took a graduate integrated cognitive psych class in the dark ages when you had to type in an exact web address to go anywhere on the internet
You took a graduate level class and were surprised by the work?
And a 400-level class is the end of undergrad study. And if it were a graduate course like you say, it was probably a hybrid 400/600 level course.
So you took a class that you were unprepared for and are blaming the teacher? That's odd. No wonder people are leaving the academy.
Marchesa-LuisaCasati t1_isusx0o wrote
Yep. It was a 400/600 level class. My university referred to them as "graduate integrated." I successfully took several of them as an undergrad.
Are you for real?....i described the fact that not everyone even had access to computers back then much less had familiarity with coding. There was no computer science prerequisite required for this psychology course, it was not described as a computer class in the course description, and you're coming at me saying i was "unprepared" as if it were a failing on my part? That's an odd take on inappropriate instruction. After i graduated, i went on to change fields and get a master of science in nursing from an "elite" university and can assure you the "problem" with that course was that instructor.
ishipbrutasha t1_isxhd16 wrote
So, you went on to get a masters in a whole other discipline that had nothing to do with the course you were taking? And in, well, nursing. What does that have to do with the price of beef? If you had told me you went to get a masters in AI/machine learning/data science that would give your opinion a little more credence.
You curiously haven't said anything about the teacher's shortcoming as an educator, only that you were out of your depth in the class.
I have degrees (plural) from elite institutions. Guess I was the only one who learned to rise to a challenge from them.
Marchesa-LuisaCasati t1_isxnbq8 wrote
Well, it seems like you enjoy telling people they're sub-optimal and appear to lack compassion & disregard what other people write about their own experiences.
I took this course in about 1991 before the internet was much of a thing and even word processing was a clunky f-key driven mess. GUIs didn't exist in the consumer market. My university had only recently rolled out email. The course description didn't include any programming prerequisite. The course was described as a PSYCHOLOGY class without mention of the requirement to code. Sure, today, it would be reasonable to encounter & produce code in a graduate cognitive psych course. But in 1991, what i experienced was akin to showing up for a literature course and getting a calculus class instead. The phrases "AI" and "machine learning" weren't in popular circulation at that time. "Social media" and it's assorted algorithms weren't in existence. I assure you, i gave it a shot because i was interested but the instructor failed to teach HOW to do what he was requiring us to do. I suspect he didn't know what he was doing and was hoping to luck into a student project he could plagiarize or, at a minimum, lift code from. I got the distinct impression he wanted to do research in what became AI but didn't have the chops to get a grant and fund a lab. It was so egregiously off the mark from what the class was supposed to be (as described by the university's own published description) that i received a full refund despite having dropped the class outside the window to receive one. I wasn't the only student who dropped the course and filed a complaint.
And as, well, a nurse, i'm trained to save lives. I'm not sure if there's a profession which is called upon with more frequency to serve their communities. Good job being condescending! A+
Have a lovely day.
[deleted] t1_isnsj3d wrote
[deleted]
zimtrovert94 t1_isbcj7c wrote
I feel that. I used to work in schools and now I’m working more in politics/educational public policy.
Some of these kids are talented. Really bright. But also give up at the first instance of a challenge.
And college is more than just academics. You do have to persevere. You do have to be accountable to yourself.
I’ve told students that in college, THEY have to schedule meetings with professors. THEY have to seek academic counseling. Not the other way around.
All of that is already a challenge in itself. I had many breakdowns in college. It’s not easy.
Bama_Peach t1_isbe2fh wrote
Hmmm… My son is a senior at an elite university and both he and I would argue that part of the reason he’s doing so well there is because he graduated from high school in an underserved community. He had to learn skills such as perseverance, taking initiative and critical thinking early on because if he wanted to do well in his studies he had no choice but to do those things. He definitely had a few teachers who genuinely cared and went above and beyond to help ensure his success but the majority of his teachers didn’t give a crap about the students and were just there for the check. Therefore, if he wanted to excel, he had to learn equip himself with the tools to do it on his own. Because of that, he walked into college much better equipped than a lot of his peers who had everything handed to them their whole lives.
Now, the culture shock and hostility that he encountered from bigots who felt he didn’t “deserve” to be there is a different story…but, just like he’s done with every other challenge in his life, he persevered and is on track to be graduate Cum Laude this spring.
zimtrovert94 t1_isbob2s wrote
Sorry if it came off that way. I’m not knocking on you or your son.
Not everybody that goes to elite schools come from elite backgrounds.
And if he has the opportunity to go to a top school and meet with elite people, I’m glad yo hear of his success.
But it’s definitely a culture shock. My friend went to Occidental and was from the lowest income background.
When people learned about this, they always offered to pay for her stuff. While I don’t think they had any malicious intentions, it did turn a bit insulting when they thought she couldn’t even afford a bottle of water, according to her.
While they could focus on school, she worked Americorp.
Bama_Peach t1_isbt1p4 wrote
Understood. I just wanted to provide my own personal ancedote as the perception seems to be that students from underserved communities who attend elite schools do terribly and flunk out because 1. They never should have been accepted in the 1st place and 2. They lack the talent and skills to excel in these colleges. My son’s and many of his friends’ experiences have been just the opposite.
Wagbeard t1_is9valp wrote
> "The slums are the handiwork of a vicious system of the white society. Negros live in them, but they do not make them any more than a prisoner makes a prison".
MLK
As a Canadian, this is driving me nuts. You guys were supposed to fix this crap generations ago and just be integrated and get rid of slums.
skaqt t1_is9vvpq wrote
You mean like how Canada 'fixed' their Boarding Schools?
Wagbeard t1_is9wqnx wrote
You're right but your government did the same stuff to your native demographic too to be fair. I'm talking about black people specifically. MLK liked Canada because we didn't have segregated black communities that your establishment exploits perpetually. The 'black' people in my neighborhood are just my neighbors and they go to the same schools as everyone else.
skaqt t1_isa26qi wrote
I'm not American, but yes the US govt did horrifying shit to the natives. Canada DID have segregation though, they just got rid of it a bit earlier than the US did. Nova Scotia had a segregated school in 1983:
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/racial-segregation-of-black-people-in-canada
Hefty-Revenue5547 t1_isa2qow wrote
Such an awful, naive understanding of history
sbsp13668 t1_isa2zha wrote
Not entirely true. Africville in Halifax was a segregated community that black people were forced to move to. I wouldn't be surprised if there were other major cities that had something similar in Canada. And, as for segregated schools, I remember when I was a kid hearing about the controversy of Toronto creating a school for black students, and it still exists: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/africentric-school-anniversary-1.5005262 However, at least Canadian colleges and universities don't have the same crazy acceptance policies for minorities as their American counterparts; which, as is shown in this documentary, do not set the students up for success.
liketreefiddy t1_isbadpd wrote
oMg wHaT YoU tOo?!?
TheReaperSC t1_isaafff wrote
I work in a poor, rural area in the southern US. While it is only their opinion, the older black teachers I have worked with through the years have all said the problems around here started with the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964. They remember government workers going door-to-door telling the young ladies they could get this, this, and this but they couldn’t have a man of the house. This is strikingly similar to how they proceeded when creating the Chicago high-rise housing complexes. 30 years later we had NAFTA take all the manufacturing businesses from our area. Add these things together and you have a majority of the population, whether white, black, or Native American, that doesn’t value education at all because they have never seen anyone use theirs. Some of my students are already 4th generation welfare recipients and have never seen anyone in their family work a steady job.
barrygurnsberg t1_isaqd2v wrote
It’s called gentrification and the activists don’t like it.
Wagbeard t1_isbn3ni wrote
Whatever you want to tell yourself. Bunch of racist dicks.
My3rstAccount t1_isa62x2 wrote
Oh, my bad. I thought we were supposed to turn the suburbs into the slums. It's cheaper that way.
Also provides jobs to the illegal immigrants we don't want, so they can build fancier, more expensive, cheaper made houses. What a circle of life.
kellymar t1_is9glav wrote
That’s a problem at many colleges, and not just with minority students. I’ve worked at two top tier colleges (one Ivy), and professors often complained about the quality of our students. Some students had to take remedial math and writing classes. We always wondered how they got admitted. Likely legacies.
planesflyfast t1_is9kxsy wrote
More likely not. People from that background are very often well educated and within their own social hierarchy well disciplined. I went to a pretty subpar public high school that always had one or two kids admitted to ivy league schools because they were presented as "Look what a shitty school this kid went to and see how smart they are despite of all that." It rarely went well. A few friends that recieved full ride scholarships to respectable universities both flunked out by the second semester. It's because the standards in high school were basically just show up and don't get in trouble.
kellymar t1_isaris4 wrote
I have a friend who is a reading specialist in a wealthy NJ school district. Parents will routinely complain to her that there is a mistake. They are doctors/lawyers/scientists, etc., and their children can’t possibly be struggling. She has to explain that it’s not a reflection on them. Even wealthy kids sometimes struggle. It doesn’t mean that they are stupid and it’s not a reflection of their parenting. But you’re right, wealthy kids certainly have more educational advantages, including access to private tutors.
PartyPorpoise t1_isax661 wrote
One interesting aspect of reading is that “background knowledge” plays a big part in reading comprehension. Kids from wealthy backgrounds tend to have more exposure to knowledge and information not just in school, but in their home life too.
PartyPorpoise t1_isao46z wrote
Yeah, at a shitty high school, a reasonably intelligent kid can make good grades without a lot of effort. The numbers look good, but they didn’t learn a lot.
Opening_Ad_3242 t1_isa7dh2 wrote
You still have to have high grades, test scores and extra curriculars to get in as a legacy. My friend applied to Notre Dame as a legacy (grandfather and father went there). Had a 3.8, 1400s on his SAT and was class president and played Varsity Tennis. Did not get in. I could have applied as a legacy too but had a 2.9 and would not even have had a chance. These schools don't just go "oh he's a legacy, come on in!". There's a finite number of people they take every year and there are plenty of legacies with perfect GPAs, high test scores and tons of extra curriculars to choose from.
Kobold_Archmage t1_isb33wo wrote
Should’ve donated more
ishipbrutasha t1_isbxxkn wrote
I know, right?
Opening_Ad_3242 t1_isciw01 wrote
They actually do donate and still do. The fact is, there's shit loads of legacies for them to choose from and many of them have perfect records, legacies who don't try hard aren't gonna make the cut, even legacies that do work hard don't make it.
mr_ji t1_isa95ox wrote
That's completely illogical. Legacies are typically going to come from successful, well-educated backgrounds and thrive. If this documentary is any indication, it's that the schools care more about artificial diversity than scholastic competency and students like this are the ones set up to fail when they actually have to perform. And many schools have said or demonstrated exactly that, like Harvard or the entire CA state system.
You can't fix issues in primary education in college unless you're willing to let the whole point of college change from enhancing education to being a poorly-executed social experiment, and the results speak for themselves.
PartyPorpoise t1_isanaib wrote
Grade inflation is a common problem in American public schools. The academic standards are so low that any reasonably intelligent student can get a good grade without much effort. A lot of kids pass without doing much work at all.
Marchesa-LuisaCasati t1_isohon0 wrote
My sister is a high school math teacher and she said they're specifically told they aren't permitted to fail more than 10% of their class in any given semester. She said she hands out A's to students who honestly try regardless of whether they succeed in math. She's been "counseled" at work for "giving" out too many D's....she had the point out the kids were all actually failing.
PartyPorpoise t1_isp5czv wrote
I did some substitute teaching and at some high schools, many of the kids can barely read or write. Yet they’re still encouraged to go to college.
Rdan5112 t1_isat4f5 wrote
It pisses me off that people seem to equate “elite universities” with “better”. It’s like putting a beginning swimmer on the Olympic team. They’ve got the best coaches, the best facilities, massive funding… it must be the best place to learn to swim… right? When people hear you were on the Olympic swim team, you can definitely get a job as a lifeguard, maybe even a coach…. Are we all tracking?
Bama_Peach t1_isb4zfq wrote
As someone whose child attends an "Elite University", I concur that these schools are in no way better. But what these schools do offer that so-called "non-elite schools" do not are unmatched networking and career opportunities.
My son (who would fit the title of a student from an underserved community due to our race and the high school he graduated from) will be graduating college in May and has already accepted a six-figure job offer with a Fortune 50 company. This company didn't care what his major was; hell - I don't think they even care what his cumulative GPA is going to be when he graduates - they just wanted a graduate from a top-14 school in their corporate office. Every single one of his classmates that isn't pursuing a post-grad degree got the same type of offer from a comparable corporation. That's why people are breaking their necks to get into these kinds of schools.
Edit: Corrected a typo
Marchesa-LuisaCasati t1_isnu83n wrote
You left out the part about if you get into a golden ticket school and you're from a middle or lower income family, the financial aid package is all grants and scholarships. The truly elite schools no longer use student loans as part of the financial aid package.
My kid also attended an "elite school" and graduated with ZERO student debt.
Bama_Peach t1_isoaqyz wrote
You’re absolutely right; that’s most definitely a benefit that I forgot to mention.
zimtrovert94 t1_isbc2k8 wrote
Exactly this. I went to a CSU. My network is significantly smaller than a UC Berkeley or USC.
And it sucks when half of the game is pure networking. Go to an elite school and you’ll literally run into people who worked with presidents or CEOs of major companies that can get you a big lead in.
At my CSU, I ran into more local politicians or business leaders. It’s a start but a far cry from elite unis.
Marchesa-LuisaCasati t1_iso4ljx wrote
I wish the documentarian had gone back to track the students which had already started at the elite universities to track their performance overtime. How many completed their degrees? How many went on to attend grad school, etc? They only really follow up with the one student at Yale and it's briefly mentioned that he has to seek tutoring (no shame in the tutor game).
Eyiolf_the_Foul t1_is8jehn wrote
Thanks for writing all that! Sounds like fraud, straight up.
sayiansaga t1_is8q6xl wrote
Doesn't sound like it. It is straight up fraud.
freedomfightre t1_is8w465 wrote
And yet the Ivy's fell for it all the same...
kedlubnaaa t1_is9tj80 wrote
Yes. I feel bad for the students, but now I want to know about those schools vetting processes. How much did they over look or not bother verifying for the sake of diversity.
Junooooo t1_isa85kp wrote
I don’t think any schools run background checks on their applicants. You’re absolutely able to lie on your application to get in, just don’t be surprised when you’re packing your bags 6 weeks in because you don’t know how to learn. Which is what we saw happen here. From a school’s perspective, they get there tuition and diversity quotas so why would they care?
PartyPorpoise t1_isaoovt wrote
Plus every high school has different academic standards. How are you going to know that an A from this one school means nothing? Some schools have a reputation but not all are well-known.
Marchesa-LuisaCasati t1_isnvcyo wrote
I assure you tuition at elite schools is paid in the form of grants and scholarships by the university. Low and middle income students aren't taking out loans to pay tuition.
Junooooo t1_isp1bl0 wrote
Ok? Pretty sure these families probably took loans to go to these fake private high schools so what’s the difference? Also, tuition isn’t even close to being the only cost associated with going to university so I’m not sure what your point is.
Marchesa-LuisaCasati t1_isp6f11 wrote
I only learned about the student loans for private high schools a few years ago. I think the doc said tuition was around $600/mo which would be "cheap" for private school where i live and, probably, a stretch for many of these families. The "difference" would be the debt would be the parents and not taken on by under-age kids.
Have you visited any of the the elite schools? Toured Stanford with my kid. They'll provide up $50K start-up money to students with a developed business plan. They also allocate $5K/yr travel and living expenses for accepted middle & lower income students. Regrettably, my kid didn't get in. We're middle class and it is absolutely a golden ticket.
The "point" is that there are about 70 universities in the US which guarantee to meet 100% of financial need without loans. "Need" includes tuition, books, housing, food, and some living expenses (travel, clothes, etc). You asserted the universities took their tuition and it didn't matter to them if the students were successful or not; that's not how elite universities work if you're middle or lower income. Source: my kid attended & graduated from an elite university and we paid $zero.
PartyPorpoise t1_is8zakt wrote
I feel so bad for those kids. They want to do well, and their parents want them to do well. But most of them aren’t in educated households and aren’t going to realize that they aren’t getting a real education until it’s too late. Really taking advantage of desperate people.
foxxie31 t1_is9bqry wrote
Almost like there is some demand for regulations? Coming from northern Europe this shit makes me just pray we won't go in that direction (of unregulated school system). And yet I think we are heading there..
PartyPorpoise t1_isal7mv wrote
The tricky part is that a lot of American public schools are pretty bad, and I guess that makes a lot of people not trust the government to regulate private schools.
GeneTwist70 t1_isa0yu6 wrote
What makes you think your country/region of Europe may deregulate it's education sector? Honest question as I haven't heard much specifically about privatization/deregulation efforts going on in Europe, though I do know that it's an ongoing thing.
foxxie31 t1_isaczod wrote
At the moment most of the pressure is preschool/kindergarten privatization and on the other hand private donations cover more and more higher education like university. At least in Finland.
When private money is involved that basically means deregulation in some way or the other. Private companies want to decide how they use their money and there's less democratic oversight.
GeneTwist70 t1_iseozan wrote
So wait, private businesses just make donations to universities so they can offer scholarships? Is it tax exempt or what, I've never heard of such a system.
NewOrleansLA t1_is8n4qa wrote
This is how almost everything in louisiana works lol
ClitClipper t1_is9eu17 wrote
Public money syphoned into scams concocted by charismatic / well-connected grifters exploiting a loophole or oversight.
Should sound very familiar to anyone living in the rural south, honestly.
DesiignedTheFuture t1_isa07me wrote
I don't get it, how is it for the sake of diversity when they're being made to look like extremely capable students regardless of race?
__crackers__ t1_isautpf wrote
How long do you think you would be fooled by a below-average student claiming to be an excellent one? Would you honestly need more than five minutes to tell they're full of shit?
It seems unlikely that university admissions would have swallowed all those bullshit applications if they hadn't actively wanted to.
DesiignedTheFuture t1_isb01oz wrote
Where I live, most people do not go for face to face interviews for university courses. You're admitted on the strength of your personal statement and predicted grades instead which is why I was confused about it being a "diversity" thing.
baconcheesecakesauce t1_isa8wqo wrote
That's some editorializing on the part of the above poster.
PartyPorpoise t1_isapurc wrote
The school itself definitely sold itself on being a place that helped young black students succeed. But yeah, I doubt the colleges took race so strongly into account when accepting students. Sure, a lot of colleges want to say they’re diverse, (whether they actually care is another discussion) but a highly accomplished student being black is at best a bonus to them, they’re not going around enrolling under qualified black kids.
Spackledgoat t1_isavea0 wrote
I’m not sure that view is accurate given the information that has come out regarding the test scores required of individuals of different races to be accepted into top universities.
Here is an article from the Harvard crimson that has a graph of the average SAT scores of admitted students by race: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/10/22/asian-american-admit-sat-scores/
You can find similar information regarding academic qualifications for med school applicants and law school applicants.
For law, bar passage rates provide an interesting data point. Those taking the bar have all graduated law school and are taking the same test (which, from my experience, is far easier than most law school tests). We would expect that if all law school applicants were qualified, they would be able to pass the minimum qualifications test at nearly the same rate. What we see instead is that the first time bar passage rate in 2021 for white takers was 24% higher than black takers (85% vs 61%). The passage rate for black takers was also 9% less than any other group, which may suggest schools are accepting and graduating black students who are less qualified than their peers of other races.
napsXfactsXsnacks t1_isb3icm wrote
Or it may suggest that white students have greater access to things like bar prep courses, are less financially stressed out and overburdened by work and family expectations and have more time dedicated to prep. That number only proves your hypothesis if you’re unwilling to take any other factors into account.
Edit: it’s also historically accurate to say that the SAT is a test that was literally designed by a eugenicist to prove that white people are smarter than Black people. College admissions look at a wide array of factors and having a high SAT score isn’t the end all be all. Nonblack kids also have the financial advantage of prep courses on that number as well.
Spackledgoat t1_iscufnp wrote
Yeah, these qualified students who just completed no less then 7 years of post secondary education and hold a professional doctorate are being held back by bar prep availability.
Even if it’s just how prepared the students are, the average first year black law student has a GPA in the bottom 10% of their class. We can pretend that these students just have a tough life (even though, if I recall correctly, a large majority of black law students are from families with incomes in the top half of household incomes in the US and are 3x over represented than the general population for having parents with terminal degrees), or maybe the schools are admitting unqualified students to boost diversity numbers.
There’s a whole “mismatch theory” regarding the negative effects of putting unqualified students into academic environments and the negative effects of doing so. Really fascinating stuff.
EffortlessFlexor t1_isa57il wrote
pisses me off how this sort of stuff is happening all over the country with charter schools siphon money from public schools. there is so much grift in k-12 education
UKisBEST t1_is9v6yq wrote
Sounds like excellent curriculum on how American success works.
MLong32 t1_isc2jcq wrote
Sounds like exactly what I’d expect from Umar if he ever got the funds to open that school he’s been “building” for the past 10 years
BronsonJonas t1_is7hbw8 wrote
And then all these kids fail out or end up as sociology majors because the academic rigor here is a fraction of what you get at a competitive high school.
thesecondfire OP t1_is7j30g wrote
There is one student portrayed at the end who seems to have adjusted to Yale, but it is true that this school is part of a huge problem in America of kids being pushed into college when they're not ready, because they're sold the idea that that's the only correct way. For a lot of schools and districts it's all about graduation rates, regardless of readiness. It's awful what's being done to millions of kids.
TUGrad t1_is7p7qg wrote
Yes, I've read a couple of articles about this that discuss students who are still in ivy leagues.
PartyPorpoise t1_is8zm9p wrote
And for kids who genuinely do want to go to college and have a shot, they get screwed over too. They’re getting a low quality of education that leaves them unprepared for college and thus more likely to drop out. And since many come from households without a lot of education, they don’t realize that they’re not being prepared until it’s (likely) too late.
blackraven36 t1_is8olsm wrote
Ah yes you see obsessing about hitting “the numbers” has worked so incredibly well for everyone! And after no thought or deliberation we put this gloriously successful tactic into our schools!
clem82 t1_iso3vgz wrote
> who seems to have adjusted to Yale
True, I looked up a couple of interviews and they were doing a LOT of self taught curriculum to catch up. Rightfully so, but to do that given the circumstances is a trait that shows they'll be just fine. That type of self starting and adversity is amazing and always wins
primalprincess t1_is8merh wrote
As a sociology major this made me laugh so hard. Because it’s true lol
imakemediocreart t1_is92gr7 wrote
Actually some top schools like Harvard aren’t known for grade deflation; the hardest part is getting in
BronsonJonas t1_is94s51 wrote
If you’re at Harvard Premed because you got straight A’s in your remedial courses from an inner city high school and scored in the 85th percentile on the SAT, you’re going to have a very hard time keeping up with the coursework.
PartyPorpoise t1_isaq2dp wrote
Yeah, even a lower ranking college is too hard for some students.
pleasekillmerightnow t1_is9zvgg wrote
Is being a sociology major a bad thing?
PartyPorpoise t1_isaq7qo wrote
They’re just making a joke about how sociology (maybe humanities in general) is easy.
Likely_Satire t1_isaw0vt wrote
That and people who fail/drop out of harder pursuits such as the BAR exam usually teach this subject (or history) as they have (most) all the credits necessary to transfer majors.
I had a teacher like this; felt so bad for the dude.
Tried to become a lawyer cause his mom pushed him to be like his older brother. Went to one of the top schools in the US; but he quickly found out he didn't have the chops or the will to keep pursuing this major and dropped out. He said his choices of jobs using his current credits and not going back to school; essentially amounted to history/sociology teacher... so that's what he became.
To add insult to injury (at least at the time I had him as a teacher); he was classified as a substitute and got paid 13k a year for a school who has a teacher on tenure who was milking maternity leave for well over a year and a half according to him.
Dude was getting fucked royally and at the expense of the kids too. Man didn't get paid enough so he litterally had 2 additional jobs after school (he was a soccer and MMA coach surprisingly); so he almost never came in with a prepared lesson plan.
I remember just about everyday him googling a lesson plan related to what we were learning and we'd just go along with some video or assignment someone else made. Shit even grading was a joke; he'd have us make our own rubrics and then have us grade ourselves lmao.
God bless that man tho, he was a good dude who was trying his best. Hopefully he's getting paid what he deserves now; but yeah this is how you end up with teachers sometimes 😅🤷♂️
thetruthhurts2016 t1_isb3fch wrote
Yes, unless you want to teach. It doesn't open as many doors as Stem or Business majors.A Sociology degree is probably as beneficial as Philosophy or English. Though I'm sure some "woke" companies would hire a sociologist for their diversity and inclusion department/HR.
Sociology is very interesting, and can shed light on important issues, though its much more Marxist these days, at least in California.
Definitely read some sociology books, but don't major in it.
Marchesa-LuisaCasati t1_isnxphm wrote
I had a double major in psych and sociology as an undergrad. I made pitiful money as a social worker in a nursing home and i borrowed money so it was a double whammy. The one thing i told my kid about higher educations was, "Don't get a degree in a field where all you can do is 'think deep thoughts.' You can think deep thoughts at the public library for free."
8bitbebop4 t1_is8iyns wrote
Dont worry, they wont be held responsible for their student loans.
GrittyPrettySitty t1_is8lwfk wrote
Yes... complain about the bandaid.
8bitbebop4 t1_isl1s3l wrote
What an odd analogy. I paid for my bandaid. Which is coincidentally how i paid for both mine, and now tje bandaids of those incapable of paying for their bandaids.
Marchesa-LuisaCasati t1_isny5hu wrote
You must not have got the memo that the elite universities no longer use loans as a part of their financial aid packages. Admission to elite universities are actual golden tickets if you're from a middle or lower income family. My kid graduated from an "elite" university; we paid ZERO dollars.
TotallynottheCCP t1_is8psko wrote
Of course not, they just gotta whine a little louder and the slate will be wiped clean for ESG points.
[deleted] t1_is7sygj wrote
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OrgyInTheBurnWard t1_is6qlmj wrote
I liked the Original better.
cabinstudio t1_is6z5c0 wrote
Welcome to South Harmon Institute of Technology
GullibleDetective t1_is72v64 wrote
Yep this is the true version, with the same guy that played in the critical hit - Waiting.
SilverBraids t1_is7qsa4 wrote
Their mascot is a sandwich
stonedkayaker t1_is7v1yj wrote
Really? A sandwich? They're the SHIT Sandwiches?! They're really taking this way too far.
Currensy69 t1_is7tsc3 wrote
Ask me about my WEINERRRRRR
Smellmyhand t1_is7io7q wrote
Just wanted to make sure someone made this joke
BenVera t1_is8gawz wrote
Isn’t Accepted the movie where they go to Shit
Straight_White_Boy t1_is9wwob wrote
South Hampton Institute of Technology
LL_Snarbuckle t1_isacjco wrote
Whatever your opinion is of the guy, I remember Thomas Sowell talking about this exact phenomenon. He was arguing against having race quotas for ivy league schools, because often academically under qualified people end up floundering and failing in the environment, and it's really sad. He argues that many of those who fail under these circumstances would have thrived in a regular, less competitive 4-year school. You can't just throw someone into an ivy league school without prep, experience, and resources for help and expect them to succeed. The pipeline for getting ahead has to start way earlier so that I person is actually prepared and qualified.
ESPiNstigator t1_is8eedf wrote
This topic was the premier episode of The Weekly on Hulu and FX: “The Education of T.M. Landry” back in 2019. Some kids adjusted to college, many did not, but all were sold a bag of goods.
mattjouff t1_is8tp3c wrote
Who could have possible predicted that the incentives created by affirmative action would result in this kind of abuse. surprised pikachu face
ClitClipper t1_is9faov wrote
I’d say this has a lot more to do with charter school legislation enabling grifters to syphon public money with little oversight.
mattjouff t1_isacq16 wrote
I’d agree except for the data showing many students lie about their race on applications by saying they are part of a minority group in the hopes of having better chances at getting in, so it’s not just charter schools. If you create a vulnerability this obvious in a system, it WILL be exploited, and the ultimate victimes will be those you were trying to help.
JihadDerp t1_is9pedv wrote
You just described the entire tax system. Siphoning money from the public with little oversight.
EffortlessFlexor t1_isa5tru wrote
libertarian who wants more oversight?
mattjouff t1_isck91k wrote
Well if we get taxed, that money might as well not mysteriously disappear in incestuous city councils filled with family members and friends giving each other huge salaries doing nothing all day, and awarding overpriced contracts to other family & friends businesses. Whatever happened to the 3 Trillion Covid bill…
EffortlessFlexor t1_iscv3i1 wrote
I agree - that was a complete fucking scam. Just like a lot of charter schools. Not everything is ridiculous - but no doubt the US has so much bloat and contract bullshit.
That said - its would be cheaper and better to have universal healthcare and the government providing a lot of basic services rather than contracting them out.
Laurely4u t1_is9qx60 wrote
I saw many affirmative action admissions that were on academic probation after the first semester so after that they were forced to major in black studies to avoid the inevitable
kickrox t1_isaz3hs wrote
College mismatching is one of the worst things to happen to poor black students.
Someone that would be top 90% of his class at a standard state college could very well be on academic probation at an Ivy League school. This is very much not a good thing to do on the whole.
thetruthhurts2016 t1_isb3ydd wrote
Yep. Precisely why I went to CC and a State school. No debt and I highly stood out performance wise with a 3.7gpa
kickrox t1_isb4kl0 wrote
Hell yeah! More power to you. Keep killing it.
clem82 t1_iso43oo wrote
>College mismatching is one of the worst things to happen to poor black students.
What really is missed out is that I get they want ivy leagues because it guarantees a good life, but just having a degree is already something that helps. It doesn't grant, but it helps. high school friend, told me that Ivy league doesn't make him feel smarter, but the fact is he was able to network is decision makers and people.
And he also said, at least what was verbal to him, is that his education didn't help, it just got him the connections to put his resume in front of people. And he only got one job offer. I think of, 8-9 interviews?
AlwaysGoToTheTruck t1_is96n1p wrote
I’m wondering how much money in vouchers went to the owner…
Existing_Skin_1564 t1_isazypz wrote
This the movie with Jonah hill
thesecondfire OP t1_isb0pzy wrote
*John A. Hill
FeistySeeker58 t1_isfureg wrote
Middle class parents are working multiple jobs in order to pay the tuition at a Catholic HS that is known for their athletic teams. The boys are wrapped up In sports. They are skating on thin academic academic ice. The non athletic students are on the receiving end of verbal and physical abuse.
I see many teachers talk to students about bullying. I stressed there would be no fat shaming. (Since I am chunky.) The boys say snide and cruel things until they cross the threshold. Then they smile and greet me.
I worry about this generation.
RockNRollerGuy t1_isaw6nt wrote
Saw this at a film festival earlier this year and really enjoyed it!
thesecondfire OP t1_isawajn wrote
Yeah it reminds me how solid POV is as a series, and PBS' other stuff.
clem82 t1_iso3o90 wrote
Just watched this:
- they tried to spin it and that is absolutely not okay.
- it is a dull drag at times, however it does highlight a lot
- how these people are not in prison I'll never understand
- you learn about how a sob story is manipulative rather than qualifications
Meow121325 t1_isaxb5i wrote
Does it also show how most of them flunk out?
GeneTwist70 t1_iseosra wrote
I'd heard about and read stories about this "school," I don't know if the guy running it honestly believed he was doing these kids a service or not, but the effects of this institution are just heartbreaking.
jx_eazy t1_is9mth4 wrote
I think generally when something has both positives and negatives, people will always tend more towards amplifying the negative.
[deleted] t1_is73p6k wrote
Affirmative action is racist
trackdaybruh t1_is7cue5 wrote
California is the only state in the U.S where affirmative action is banned for public domain including college admissions (private colleges are exempt)
https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_209,Affirmative_Action_Initiative(1996)
a_trane13 t1_is80r37 wrote
I’m pretty sure it’s the same in Michigan
https://www.cnn.com/2014/04/22/justice/scotus-michigan-affirmative-actionable
Agamennmon t1_is75jvw wrote
Legal racism
ishipbrutasha t1_isffq9d wrote
It sure is. All those white women who got all those benefits disproportionate to anyone else.
[deleted] t1_is7egm4 wrote
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[deleted] t1_is9bvxx wrote
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[deleted] t1_is9wegh wrote
Did you forget to take your meds lol
giggidy88 t1_is7cwss wrote
Life is a fight for a knife in the mud. Got to get it how you can.
TUGrad t1_is7pft7 wrote
Tell me you have no idea what affirmative action really is without telling me you have no idea what affirmative action really is.
Psilocybin13 t1_is89pje wrote
Trying to right the wrongs of past racism with more racism by favoring one race over the other.
TotallynottheCCP t1_is8pn8s wrote
Basically lol
GrittyPrettySitty t1_is8n3be wrote
Man... I thought we were not supposed to redefine racism to win internet points.
Partyslayer t1_is7duoo wrote
Boring
thesecondfire OP t1_is7inos wrote
I disagree.
Partyslayer t1_is7lqos wrote
No, I watched it. It's boring. Coulda made that 15 min long and compelling. It isn't bad. Sorry we don't agree. Love the program though, and stoked for those kids. I like the tone.
ChubbyProlapse t1_is8i4cj wrote
Damn, watching all the kids go from being so hopeful, and seemingly making so much progress, to sitting there having an existential crisis, directionless, and scared hurt my soul, that feeling really sucks to have.
For people who didn't want to watch because it was too long and quite boring at parts I'll give a quick timeline.
Tldr: business man starts private school to take advantage of colleges blindly accepting black kids for the sake of diversity. Guy is allegedly abusive and falsified college letters to make the kids appear like they've done more than they have. Most kids get fucked over, only four graduate.
Black business man starts a private school with alternative teaching methods. That being, you aren't told to do much of anything, it's all up to you to succeed. Rather than be a teacher, the guy who runs the school is more of a motivational speaker, a life coach of sorts. Since colleges are hungry to accept black kids just for the sake of diversity, the college acceptance rates were 100% for any student who graduated. The school went viral after videos emerged of students celebrating being accepted into ivy league schools. The popularity of the school exploded, the new york times wrote an article which exposed things, turns out the "teaching" methods are incredibly questionable, he screamed at students a lot, gave lectures where he essentially out casted the underporming students which humiliated them, The stress levels were through the roof, some students even developed stress habits of pulling their hair out. We later learn the school owner orchestrated little events to make himself look good, such as telling students to call him and ask him questions about math, so he could provide advice and appear hard at work on his time off while the cameras are filming him. He also was accused of assault and abuse. One case went to court. Then we learn that he was having kids lie and completely fabricate their college letters so they'd have a better chance of being accepted. Such as starting clubs they never started, winning education awards they never won, and fabricating "started from the bottom" black hardship stories. Some Parents started realizing their kids were at a Lower education level than they were when they got in. the end of the documentary, nearly every single senior left the school, and only four students graduated. They were accepted into "top level" schools. The rest say they're directionless, having to go back to high school a grade behind, in debt, and unable to afford college.