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krabstarr OP t1_iuhog1l wrote

While the earlier submitted article regarding the sending of "unverified" ballots was refuted by a 3rd party, I wanted to submit this article which includes information from Acting Secretary of the Commonwealth Leigh M. Chapman's response letter to Representative Ryan and other representatives on Friday.

24

Silver-Hburg t1_iuhtysd wrote

They aren’t even sending legitimate absentee ballots. I’ve been “approved” since 8/29 but Lebanon county still hasn’t bothered to mail my ballot even after several phone calls.

47

RDGCompany t1_iuhvl1b wrote

In Bucks I received my ballot in a timely manner and was emailed when they received it back. Their communication the whole time was good. Emails tracking the process all the way.

Bucks, in my mind, is doing it right.

80

tuenthe463 t1_iuhx17o wrote

As long as it's said louder it means they did.

0

LordKaraka12 t1_iuhysce wrote

Sad but conservatives will believe whatever they want. You can show them irrefutable empirical evidence and they will simply deny it bc it doesn’t align with their world view.

58

nesquiksand2 t1_iuhz04k wrote

My dad, who lives in rural pa, was convinced they sent him multiple election ballots.

I had to explain to him that they were registrations to vote.

153

PaApprazer t1_iui0lir wrote

What part of increased use of mail-in voting are you not understanding? Why is election night results a requirement? Wouldn’t knowing all legally cast votes are counted be the goal? smfh

14

kworkbos t1_iui1gju wrote

GQP last week: PA sends out over 250000 unverified ballots.

GQP this week: PA refuses to send out over 250,000 ballots

40

oldschoolskater t1_iui26mx wrote

We could know almost all legally cast votes on election night just like other states already do. Wouldn't you prefer that to the system that we use that causes doubt the longer it takes?

4

crazypants9 t1_iui2pg7 wrote

The GOP has a platform. Destroy integrity and decency. Plant suspicion. Divide America. Seize power. Refuse the facts and truth. It’s dangerous and serves only our enemies.

5

JoshuaIan t1_iui3it0 wrote

There's an entire media cult that has used psychology and propaganda to build this over the past 40 years. This wasn't an accident - this was purposeful manipulation of human nature.

Which is, in and of itself, I guess, human nature. It just sucks that we evidently used to be smart enough to know and demand better as a society, and as a result, we did greater things as a society. I wonder what we could have been capable of without the rise of this media cult taking over our culture.

24

Reynolds_Live t1_iui3p2c wrote

Thing is even if they did it wouldn’t be counted anyway. Morons who believe this don’t realize that each vote is verified heavily.

11

_Woodrow_ t1_iui3q5y wrote

But could you imagine if they did?

−28

HahaWeee t1_iui3x2w wrote

I will say I am going to laugh so so much if Shapiro and Oz win.

Thr gov race will be fraud but the senate magically ok.

6

artisanrox t1_iui4p0c wrote

Fascists...hating the opinion of the public since autocracy was invented.

2

all4whatnot t1_iui7vt3 wrote

As much as I'd hate to see those split results, that outcome has crossed my mind. Trump will sue to say that Mastriano won and then have no explanation as to why Oz won if the vote was rigged.

8

oldschoolskater t1_iui9ht7 wrote

When you confirm enough votes on election night and the remaining ones can't overcome the difference they can call the election. If there isn't enough then you wait. That's the way it's always worked. With the large amount of mail in happening now it gets more difficult so we wait. The longer it takes the more doubt is built in voters minds.

4

justasque t1_iuia5h8 wrote

I think there are good reasons to not count early. Eliminates concerns about someone in on the process finding out their party's votes are low, and pushing for greater turnout. If people don't understand that it takes time to count votes, that can be addressed with more public education. If they can't understand it, there's not a lot we can do, and they will be the first to create a conspiracy theory about insiders knowing the count early if we change the process - there's no satisfying those folks.

5

CaseyCahoots t1_iuial1c wrote

That's good to hear. I've had the pleasure of meeting almost all the election directors listed in this comment chain and they are all wonderful and competent folks. Glad most are having good experiences. County elections offices get it right like 99.9% of the time, but 0.01% 300k registered voters in York is still 300 angry phone calls. Nice to hear kudos for once.

5

Mor_Tearach t1_iuibegr wrote

I managed to get reported for ' threats ' by saying I'd get a lawyer if anyone nullifies my vote. Someone please explain to me how getting a lawyer to protect my right to vote is in any way a ' threat ' ?

8

KFCConspiracy t1_iuibn2u wrote

I've talked to a lot of voters this election season canvassing, there's a shocking number of them planning to vote for Shapiro and Oz. I'm not sure whether I should be glad that they're just not voting for Mastriano, or upset that they're not also voting for Fetterman (because Oz during the primary has espoused the same standard GOP crazy shit they all espouse). Those voters could be Shapiro's margin of victory, but they're also probably, if Oz wins, Oz's margin of victory.

3

RDGCompany t1_iuiief3 wrote

Replying to my own reply.

I may not vote in person again. It makes for a calm deliberative decision. I don't have to worry about going after work when I'm exhausted and not thinking clearly. Becomes less of a chore.

17

ho_merjpimpson t1_iuiiu8u wrote

berks weighing in. it was perfect.

the only thing i would change is a more obvious way to check your application status prior to receiving the ballot. i didnt take screen shots or write down the process, but by memory, it was a little unobvious that my mother, in fact, elected to receive her mail in ballot back in feb.

like, all i remember is that finding this page

https://www.pavoterservices.pa.gov/pages/voterregistrationstatus.aspx

was easy. but it should include a link to THIS page:

https://www.pavoterservices.pa.gov/pages/ballottracking.aspx

which i tracked down, but my mother, or anyone not born in the internet age, would likely not find.

and then when i got to the latter page, whatever "status" that was showing for her wasnt defined well enough for us to be confident that she would be receiving a mail in ballot. it turns out that she didnt apply, so she applied, and still currently shows as "pending"... which after calling means it should be on the way, but might not be here in time, which means she will have to drop it off in person... which sucks because she is post transplant and tries to avoid crowds.

4

Icy_Blackberry_3759 t1_iuij5bx wrote

This anti-democracy propaganda from Republicans is fucking terrifying.

Is this going to be forever? They found they can create loyalty by pushing this most extreme conspiracy, and now that’s their bread and butter?

10

sashslingingslasher t1_iuin4f6 wrote

Same bullshit I'm sure. I remembered leading up to 2020, people posting pictures of a bunch of ballot request forms claiming they were ballots.

"I got all the ballots from all the people who lived in my apartment before me!"

No you didn't.

4

Libsoccer20 t1_iuinasv wrote

Get ready for the GOP stolen election propaganda

5

atomicgirl78 t1_iuiochy wrote

As someone trying to get registered lemme tell ya it’s a bitch. I have been trying since June and I am still not registered. Most recently I got a form because I could not be verified because their machine read my birthday wrong. Arghh. Is it because I am a Dem or because the system is stupid and should be allowed to do it all online?

1

Guntcher1423 t1_iuioed7 wrote

Lies and half truths are all these mean spirited assholes got. No policy. No ideas to solve problems. They got nothing but bigotry and hatred.

4

Grimx82 t1_iuios1w wrote

Cool, cool, keep making the case for in person voting with fucking id. One person one vote.

−27

emogu84 t1_iuisw76 wrote

I got mine fine this cycle in Northampton Co, but the 2020 election was a month after we moved houses (within the same county and district, but new polling place). My wife got her mail ballot properly, but mine was forwarded to me by USPS cause it had the old address printed on it. I ended up deciding to cast a provisional ballot on election day rather than chance it. Went to my new polling place and they didn't have a ballot for me, so I had to go back to my old polling place to cast my vote.

Such a shitshow, especially when my wife's info updated correctly and didn't have to deal with any of it. And we're in a blue area of our purple district, near a college campus, so I had my tinfoil hat on for a while after.

5

mistercrinkles t1_iuit97l wrote

But someone did send me 255k flyers bad mouthing Fetterman this month lol

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billfriedman9987 t1_iuiw4dx wrote

There are fraud problems with mail-in absentee ballots but the problems with universal mail-in ballots are much more significant. Still most countries ban even absentee ballots for people living in their countries.

Most developed countries ban absentee ballots unless the citizen is living abroad or require Photo-IDs to obtain those ballots. Even higher percentages of European Union or other European countries ban absentee for in country voters. In addition, some countries that allow voting by mail for citizens living the country don’t allow it for everyone. For example, Japan and Poland have limited mail-in voting to those who have special certificates verifying that they are disabled.

France has made an exception in 2020 to the ban absentee ballots to those who are sick or at particular risk during the Coronavirus pandemic. Poland and two cities in Russia have adopted mail-in ballots for elections this year only, but most countries haven't changed their regulations.

−3

billfriedman9987 t1_iuiwix6 wrote

Absentee ballots =! Universal mail in ballots.

Simply put, it’s like a blank check that can be falsified, duplicated and corrupted.

Absentee ballots are requested for each voter. These are fine. It’s the universal ballots that are prone to fraud

−2

billfriedman9987 t1_iuixfpv wrote

Of the 47 countries in Europe, a staggering 46 require government-issued photo IDs for in-person voting. The only exception is the United Kingdom, where a photo ID is required for national elections in Northern Ireland but not for Scotland, Wales, and England. Both Canada and Mexico require a government-issued photo ID. Mexico goes a step farther by making its ID biometric with both photo and fingerprints.

European, Canadian, and Mexican absentee ballot laws are much more restrictive than ours. None automatically sends absentee ballots to all registered voters.

You know why? Because In doing so you open your election to fraud.

1

billfriedman9987 t1_iuiy6pm wrote

You are delusional if you don’t see the issue with a. Universal mail in ballot. What im saying is there is a reason why no other developed country allows for it.

Absentee ballots that are requested are not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the 2020 universal mail in ballots. The pandemic is over, it’s time to go back to the previous system

1

rivershimmer t1_iuizc1z wrote

I don't think it's a fair comparison, the spread-out USA to more compact, densely populated, highly urbanized nations with excellent public transportation like Japan or France. A better comparison would be to Canada or Australia, geographically big countries with lots of citizens living in the boonies. And both those countries offer mail-in voting.

3

rivershimmer t1_iuizkyk wrote

> Simply put, it’s like a blank check that can be falsified, duplicated and corrupted.

Sure, but we don't ban checks because of the potential for abuse. You want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

3

rivershimmer t1_iuj1nbe wrote

Except, as so many Republican voters discovered in 2020 when they were arrested for double-voting or voting for their dead relatives, it's pretty easy to zero in on criminals who think they gaming the system. Every ballot is going to come in an envelope with someone's name on it. Easy enough to figure out if it's a legit vote.

3

MetaphysicalMayhem t1_iuj80p9 wrote

Every.Single.Mail-in.Ballot.Sent. has a complete record that’s accessible via pavoterservices.pa.gov. That was also true in 2020. I’m just absolutely sick of this MAGA madness. But once again, there will be a “red mirage” in PA because as a matter of principle and/or convenience, we anti-MAGAs are mostly casting our votes by mail, and they can’t start counting them until Election Day. I just dropped my ballot off in person at the county elections office.

Deal with it, MAGAs. You’ll mostly lose again in PA, just like 2020. Shapiro and Fetterman will win. Here in the PA first congressional district, RINO GOP Rep. Fitzpatrick will probably also win on the same ballots. Quit whining and threatening. You.Are.Not.The.Majority.

8

JKsoloman5000 t1_iuj9j3g wrote

They can say whatever they want and it’s automatically true for a large portion of the population. No amount of evidence would change their minds. We live in a post truth reality

13

Prestigious-Buy1774 t1_iujc9ny wrote

The opposite could also happen. If voters see a wider margin they may not vote Because they think their vote would Not make a difference anyway. Everyone eligible should vote. But don't count the votes until election day To truly show what the voters want. It will make it more important for them if they do not know anything ahead of time

2

51stStar t1_iujcryg wrote

"Sociopaths sowing conspiracy theories to angry and unstable randos in hopes that they kill elected officials with hammers" season is almost upon us.

Do your part and don't indulge the angry and unstable randos in your life, set them straight.

19

Prestigious-Buy1774 t1_iujctbc wrote

I decided I would not take the chance on any of these problems occurring. I simply cast my ballot on election day in person and I know it will be counted properly. If I was out of the area I would cast an absentee Ballot because that is a bit of a different process

1

Prestigious-Buy1774 t1_iujdifr wrote

P .S. ... My mom died in 2020. She still received a ballot to vote. I shredded it up And informed the polling workers when I went to vote myself. They wanted the extra ballot back. So I told her no, I shredded it up so no one else could get their hands on it. They didn't give me any problem but looked surprised when I told Them no. I felt in my conscience it was the right thing to do and also the safest given the conditions

0

akadmin t1_iujdsz6 wrote

God the internet sucks. What an inflammatory headline. Clicks and comments abound! ...but at what cost?

−5

and_another_username t1_iujmfq8 wrote

Wow. Fact check: “false”.

They DID send 255k ballots to unverified voters. But they say they will totally “verify later”. And that they “totally don’t count ballots before voter verified. Bc trust us”

How can u send a ballot before verified at all?! How is this the procedure ? That’s fucked If a voter’s identification can’t be verified at the time they apply for a ballot, state law does require that the voter still be issued a ballot and be provided an opportunity until the sixth day after the election to provide the proper proof of identification. But counties are not to count the ballot unless the voter provides proof of identification.

This is some shady shit. You should absolutely not get a ballot until verified. And give up to 6 days AFTER election? Smells like bullsht Why is PA always with the worst ballot procedure?

−9

billfriedman9987 t1_iujqk30 wrote

You are missing the point.

With an absentee ballot, you provide information, you sign a form, and they mail one to you to fill out. It is uniquely tied to you and your name and signature is associated with the vote. You requested the ballot and turned it in. This is fine and has been a common practice for years for those who are out of state or medically unable to vote. There is also the no-excuse category, which again, I'm fine with, but it follows the same process but there is no actual reason other than convenience for this service. This is ok.

What is not ok is universal mail in ballots, where they are sent to every single voter. This sounds good on paper, right? But it has a lot of issues associated with it.

Because of widespread inaccuracies in a state’s voter registration records, a state that sends ballots to all registered voters will inadvertently send ballots to persons ineligible to vote or others with fake registrations, invalid registrations, outdated registrations, and to the deceased.

Furthermore, with this type of carpet-bomb approach, it lends to ballot harvesting which if you are unfamiliar is the practice of collecting ballots from large groups of people and submitting them en-masse, often times empowered by political candidates and in doing so alter the legitimacy of those ballots.

There is a reason that no industrialized nation condones universal mail in ballots. This is not just a democratic or republican issue; this is an issue that impacts all of us.

−1

billfriedman9987 t1_iujqstj wrote

I actually just posted this in another reply so here it is.

With an absentee ballot, you provide information, you sign a form, and they mail one to you to fill out. It is uniquely tied to you and your name and signature is associated with the vote. You requested the ballot and turned it in. This is fine and has been a common practice for years for those who are out of state or medically unable to vote. There is also the no-excuse category, which again, I'm fine with, but it follows the same process but there is no actual reason other than convenience for this service. This is ok.

What is not ok is universal mail in ballots, where they are sent to every single voter. This sounds good on paper, right? But it has a lot of issues associated with it.

Because of widespread inaccuracies in a state’s voter registration records, a state that sends ballots to all registered voters will inadvertently send ballots to persons ineligible to vote or others with fake registrations, invalid registrations, outdated registrations, and to the deceased.

Furthermore, with this type of carpet-bomb approach, it lends to ballot harvesting which if you are unfamiliar is the practice of collecting ballots from large groups of people and submitting them en-masse, often times empowered by political candidates and in doing so alter the legitimacy of those ballots.

There is a reason that no industrialized nation condones universal mail in ballots. This is not just a democratic or republican issue; this is an issue that impacts all of us.

0

BobcatBarry t1_iujqto3 wrote

Through American history, the news networks calling an election reflected their predictions, not total counts. Just like Fox called Arizona for Biden before they finished counting, they used a combination of precincts reported, their own exit polls, and math to figure out who won before the official count was in.

1

billfriedman9987 t1_iujqu5i wrote

With an absentee ballot, you provide information, you sign a form, and they mail one to you to fill out. It is uniquely tied to you and your name and signature is associated with the vote. You requested the ballot and turned it in. This is fine and has been a common practice for years for those who are out of state or medically unable to vote. There is also the no-excuse category, which again, I'm fine with, but it follows the same process but there is no actual reason other than convenience for this service. This is ok.

What is not ok is universal mail in ballots, where they are sent to every single voter. This sounds good on paper, right? But it has a lot of issues associated with it.

Because of widespread inaccuracies in a state’s voter registration records, a state that sends ballots to all registered voters will inadvertently send ballots to persons ineligible to vote or others with fake registrations, invalid registrations, outdated registrations, and to the deceased.

Furthermore, with this type of carpet-bomb approach, it lends to ballot harvesting which if you are unfamiliar is the practice of collecting ballots from large groups of people and submitting them en-masse, often times empowered by political candidates and in doing so alter the legitimacy of those ballots.

There is a reason that no industrialized nation condones universal mail in ballots. This is not just a democratic or republican issue; this is an issue that impacts all of us.

0

billfriedman9987 t1_iujr14f wrote

I think we all have to admit, the amount of votes tallied after polls closed were more than we've ever seen before, especially in WI, MI, PA, and AZ. We're talking swings of close to a half a million votes in some cases.

−1

justasque t1_iujrb5d wrote

> Just because they count early doesn’t mean they have to release a running total.

Oh they should absolutely NOT release a running total. Under no circumstances. But there will be people who know the total, or who have access to it. And there’s where the issue lies. Those people might illegally use their knowledge to help their party. Or they might be accused of doing so by folks in the opposite party, even if they didn’t. It just creates a whole lot of drama, along with the possibility of an unfair election (or the perception thereof).

We have always had tight elections that take a few days to resolve. It really isnt a problem, if the candidates understand how the voting & counting works and behave like sensible, honest, professional adults. It wasn’t the counting that was the issue in the recent past, it was the adulting, or rather the lack thereof.

3

BobcatBarry t1_iujrd21 wrote

We would also have to admit that in Pennsylvania that happened because Republicans wrote the legislation forbidding the count of mail-in ballots until after polls close, not because of any chicanery on the part of election administrators.

2

krabstarr OP t1_iujrlwb wrote

You have no idea what you're talking about.

The "Not Verified" status refers to how the ballot application initially arrived to the county elections office. They can arrive pre-verifed if the application is submitted online with a driver's license which matches with PennDOT records. The online ballot applications which are designated as "Not Verified" are ones where the voter provided only Social Security Number, ones provided a driver's license number which didn't match PennDOT records, ones which provided non-matching PennDOT numbers and a Social Security Number, and ones where the voter didn't provide either. Ones where an SSN is provided are submitted to the HAVA interface to check against Social Security records even before a ballot can be sent to a voter. The majority of the "255k" ballot applications which were designated as "not verified" get verified this way before a ballot can even go out the door to the voter.

The applications remain coded as their original code (Onlinr Mail-In Not Verified, for example) because that's how it originally arrived. It is not an indication of the current verification status of the voter's ballot application nor an indication of the verification status of the ballot application when the ballot was sent.

So no. They DID NOT send 255k ballots to unverified voters.

5

and_another_username t1_iujs9os wrote

Yea I read it too.

Except that they did get sent out.

The Ballots were sent out. To people who were still yet to be confirmed as verified in the system. You can spin it different ways if ya want. But this is factual.

They even specify if they receive the returned filled out ballot before verified that they won’t count it. And give them up to 6 days after the election

−8

rivershimmer t1_iujsqs5 wrote

> What is not ok is universal mail in ballots, where they are sent to every single voter.

Well, we don't do that in Pennsylvania, so is there any reason you're choosing to complain about it here rather than, say, the Oregon or Utah subreddits?

2

TlpCon t1_iujt0n6 wrote

No one knows the truth but you, in 2020 it was reported you received 230,000 more ballots back than you had registered voters. Will we ever really know the truth.

−6

krabstarr OP t1_iujtu6u wrote

Did you not read a single thing I wrote about how the Social Security numbers are verified BEFORE ballots get sent? THIS is factual. Yes, ballots do get sent out to the minority of voters who didn't provide verifiable driver's license or social security number, but that's not what I'm refuting. I'm refuting the fact that ballots were sent to 255k voters who still did not have verified ID at the time the ballots were sent. It would have been a far lower number due to the fact that the Social Security Numbers are sent for verification prior to ballots being sent, but after the application was received in the "not verified" designation.

5

Boating_with_Ra t1_iujzucc wrote

But this isn’t what happens in Pennsylvania. Mail-in voting in PA is the exact same process as absentee voting. They don’t mail everyone a ballot. They mail everyone a notice that you can vote by mail and give you instructions to do so, and if you want to apply for a mail-in ballot, you follow all those steps you described for absentee ballots.

1

seantimejumpaa t1_iuk8l64 wrote

I voted by mail last year. Elected not to this year. My voting location is in walking distance to my house. I did not get a ballot automatically mailed to me. You have to request it if I’m not mistake.

1