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forgot_to_growup t1_j1j3emy wrote

Awesome. Now give it to all Americans not just a select few. We all pay for it.

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RunJun t1_j1jbzia wrote

I want healthcare for all but that's not happening soon. We owe them this and so much more so I'll happily pay in taxes for this.

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impeach_the_mother t1_j1jpa3x wrote

Why do we owe them more than any other citizen? Are their lives worth more?

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MesqTex t1_j1jqz46 wrote

Trail of Tears was an asshole move on our part. So many other things we’ve done as well. The systematic racism towards the indigenous population in the US is on a level as bad as the Jim Crow era and beyond for the BIPOC communities.

The indigenous communities won’t see the respect and support they deserve until we rid the racist cultures in our government, starting with the GQP and Far Right factions of our society.

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sadpaperclip t1_j1jtogn wrote

>on our part

Damn bro how old are you

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MesqTex t1_j1ju6hc wrote

Age is just a number. But to recognize and grow up from the asshole I was just a few years ago, it’s time I make amends for the mistakes of my forefathers. The so-called “Great Awakening” for me wasn’t through QAnon, but through the realization that I’d been a pain in the butt.

I’m trying to be better.

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Papplenoose t1_j1k2f5k wrote

That's pretty cool! Anyone who is capable of admitting that is pretty dang cool in me book. That's not easy :)

Also I can't stop laughing at your comment; I've never heard someone use "age is just a number" in a positive, non creepy way before lol

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amreinj t1_j1kj5vj wrote

My grandmother was beaten for speaking our language and sent to boarding schools. Reparations are owed.

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Jrdirtbike114 t1_j1k1qkj wrote

Our ancestors committed genocide against their ancestors. We used the land we stole from them to become the richest nation in recorded human history. Our lives are orders of magnitude easier than they otherwise would have been, and their lives are orders of magnitude worse than they otherwise would have been. Therefore, continuing to benefit from that situation without attempting to right the wrong in some way is morally wrong.

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rileyg98 t1_j1k7d0t wrote

And that's how war works...

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amreinj t1_j1kjam5 wrote

Genocide isn't war

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rileyg98 t1_j1kzwpj wrote

These days maybe. But that's how it was in those times.

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impeach_the_mother t1_j1k24v8 wrote

Everyone's been genocided by everyone at some point.

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Jrdirtbike114 t1_j1k99g5 wrote

Well shit! Everybody is a victim of theft at some point. Let's legalize theft! What a great fucking way to build a society!

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impeach_the_mother t1_j1k9h2d wrote

No I just saying treating victims of theft differently is weird. If there's white kids in poverty and native kids in poverty and black kids in poverty we should be helping all of them

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prismstein t1_j1kiz0n wrote

You're right.

Thing is, when a group is advocating for something, they aren't saying only advocate for that, they aren't saying dismiss other causes. You don't go in front of them and say "what about this or that?" Example: Saying all loves matter when someone says black lives matter. To do so is to dismiss the message being presented.

That said, this Indian healthcare thing is even more simple, the gov has a contract with the Indians, in writing, that hey have to execute. And they're executing it. That's it. If you feel incredulous that other coloured kids aren't getting helped, they are groups that advocate for those causes, you can contribute to those.

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Sunghana t1_j1kj5jo wrote

It is a treaty RIGHT. Please tell me how it is weird to abide by a signed agreement.The U.S. has, and continues to, break signed treaties with tribes. Tribes were able to "enforce" this right but even then it is adequately funded which partially explains how Native health outcomes are incredibly bad compared to other ethnic/racial groups in the U.S.

Indian Health Services has to compete for funding with other government agencies. It isn't an entitlement (or held in trust) and funding has to be approved by Congress. Remember when people were bitching about death panels? IHS has something called Purchased/Referred Care. Referrals and emergencies are ranked on a priority scale from 1 (emergency, life-threatening) to 5 (cosmetic/elective/experimental treatments). If a tribe runs out of money, they can't pay for services and if they can't pay, your referral gets deferred until either more funding shows up or something super not good happens that moves you up the priority scale such as having a heart attack. So preventative care isn't guaranteed and worse health outcomes are a result. Now have that happen for generations and tell me it's weird to treat victims of theft differently? We stole their land, their language & culture, their children (boarding schools then, foster care now) and underfund their health programs. Learn some history...😒

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snapthesnacc t1_j1li9im wrote

Correct! That happens progressively though and this is part of that process.

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lubu9 t1_j1ke16y wrote

People hold grudges. Especially if you know when it's in your own blood and own ancestors that were treated unfairly. And you go to public places and see how people of different races (especially white people) still treat you dirt, show subtle discomfort in your presence, or shit even after so many years ago in history. Yes we will hold grudges. The U.S. has done a lot more then just genocide to the natives to be the most hated country.

The US has been in over 20 coups in Latin America in the 50s and 60s. Destabilizing and undermining Latin American democracy in the name of money and greed. You don't think America is the terrorist? Lol. America provoked a war with the Mexicans and robbed us of California, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Nevada. Then made the treaty to make the border south of rio grande. Then Mexicans are propagandized as criminals trying to cross the border that was originally Mexican soil that the U.S. (white people) are so proud of. Then you get American tourists in mexico that think they're above everyone else cause of their white skin. Like yeah we know you tour our land and go back home, enjoy our food and women and celebrate our holidays. Like fuck you guys. You destroyed decades of culture and livelihood for these people in these countries. You can even see the aftermath of the wars it cause it even after so many years. Mexico lost a lot of recognition after that war and a lot of Mexicans believe we were robbed and still hold resentment over the American people that the land should be given back.

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impeach_the_mother t1_j1kg1sl wrote

How much land should we give back. Some all? Should we all be sent back to Europe

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TotalUsername t1_j1kgpxs wrote

Yes, nobody wants you here.

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GronanStormbringer33 t1_j1l6g0t wrote

Didn't Mexicans obliterate millions of natives by disease and war and then forcefully assimilate the rest to the point that the native identity no longer exists? And let me get this right, you are mad that the land your ancestors stole was stolen from you by someone else?

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Synergythepariah t1_j273xvs wrote

>Didn't Mexicans obliterate millions of natives by disease and war and then forcefully assimilate the rest to the point that the native identity no longer exists?

Ehhh, I'd really say that that was the doing of the Spanish - not quite Mexican people.

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lubu9 t1_j1l9c4t wrote

Lol Americans started assimilating first. Once people caught on what you guys were doing, you guys got mad when the Mexicans were giving you the same treatment. You guys got your tiny penis butthurt and provoked that war. Mexicans are more native than you think. Americans just use "native American" to separate identity from the natives and Mexicans so that Mexicans can't claim they're part native and any land that was rightfully theirs. The natives offered the Americans help by teaching how to produce food and survive off the land. Americans took advantage of their kindness and killed them off. Do I need to tell you any further why the Mexican people think American people are rats till this day? I don't think so. There are lot of Hispanic people who are aware of your kind or hate your kind. Hence, why the "guerros" "gringo" is used so often in a negative connotation.

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Synergythepariah t1_j272ezi wrote

>Lol Americans started assimilating first

TIL that the Spanish Empire didn't exist and didn't genocide central american native people

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Papplenoose t1_j1k20sw wrote

No, and nobody is saying that. They did get kinda super screwed over though... I feel like there's more than enough wealth in this country to give them some of what was taken.

I get where you're coming from: you arent directly responsible for that, so why should you have to pay for it? I'm not sure I have an answer for you other than 'its the right thing to do', as I think you'd probably want help if you were in their shoes. I know I would. All (or most? I don't know) of the people who were directly responsible for it are dead. They can't make it up to them anymore (not would they want to). So if it's going to happen, somebody has to make the sacrifice. Why not us? Let's be real: they're probably never going to get the vast majority of what was taken, so it seems like the right thing to do to help where we can..

To put that all in terms of money (this is gonna feel real gross): helping people develop a better life is almost always good for the economy. People who are dying don't stimulate the economy. Happy, healthy, thriving people do. That wasn't very fun at all!

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asaking t1_j1l13lt wrote

Ever heard of a treaty - it’s legitimately why the United States government owes them

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mofa90277 t1_j1ldmxm wrote

The same reason renters pay rent to landlords: they owned it first. The native Americans have “leased” their lands to the United States via various treaties.

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quiettryit t1_j1jvboo wrote

We already do it to every single retired military person, providing platinum medical care to them, their spouses and children... In addition to paying most thousands per month in disability while still allowing them to work full time. Ass to that education benefits that they can give to their spouse or children.

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Antennae89 t1_j1k1lq0 wrote

I'm sorry but no, "platinum care" couldn't be farther from the truth. Tens of thousands of retired military and war veterans are denied benefits or stuck in never ending run around referrals to get benefits or disabilities approved. In the military we call Tri-care (the military insurance), Try And Get Us to Care.

Have some hope with the recently passed bill allocating enough budget to increase VA benefits 22% to help more much needed vets.

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B_Mac4607 t1_j1k0x76 wrote

If only thats how it worked for most retired military. The VA, “ looks like your spine has broken in 3 places due to your successful ejection from a malfunctioning F-13. I’ll send the forms over and we can get you a back brace in about 6 months.”

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NothingFirstCreate t1_j1l28xk wrote

I get this is just an example but — the VA secretly knows on the low that your claim about ejecting from an “F-13” is made up. That’s why they denied the claim. Fun fact — the USAF never had an F-13 fighter designation in use. So, unless it was a Junkers F-13 manufactured in 1919 by Germany, they’d likely call fraud on this particular claim tongue in cheek

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SweetCans928 t1_j1k8ckj wrote

I had a similar conversation with a VA employee recently(and I'm a retired vet myself), and he was saying something similar. "We already have a system in place." Yeah not the best, but at least it's a functional model to start with. I'm very grateful that I don't ever have to worry about healthcare stuff like a lot of Americans do. The VA has had my back 100% of the time and I never have to wait very long for anything.

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quiettryit t1_j1ke0lk wrote

I'm glad you're honest about this, a lot of veterans like to act like they are getting some third world care when in fact it's better than most private insurance and far cheaper. I worked with a guy that made $80k+/yr as a GS civil service employee, while also 100% disabled getting $42k+ tax free per year, in addition to healthcare for themselves and their families, easily valued at another $20k/yr. And in Florida disabled veterans at that level also don't have to pay property taxes.

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SweetCans928 t1_j1kkoqe wrote

And here I am constantly wracked with guilt over what I'm taking from the system lol. And you're right; I've heard that same cynical perspective from fellow vets more than a few times. I kinda get where the perception comes from("you guys did XYZ in good faith for your nation and now the gubment is gonna drag their feet with your treatment?"), but just because something doesn't work as well as it could or even should, does not mean it is trash.

On top of getting paid every month so that I don't have to work if I don't want to(I don't lol), I've gotten every kind of treatment I needed and thensome. Tons of psyche stuff, but also optical, dental, back stuff, whatever I've needed help with. They have also helped get me into housing programs when I was on the streets for a bit, have helped by getting me into fun programs like Drum Circle, and free medication. And yeah some of the employees DGAF but you'll find that anywhere, and on the flipside of that token I've met tons of compassionate, caring people at the VA.

And when I was stuck in a cycle of self-destruction and kept finding myself in the VA psyche ward with suicidal ideations, feeling guilty over like my seventh stay in about a three year span, a nurse there told me "Even if you have to come back here a hundred times, we are here to help you through it with open arms and a compassionate ear" which really meant a ton to me at the time.

That seventh trip was one of my last trips in a long time, so I guess she was right that I didn't need to kill myself to extricate myself from so many negative feelings. Thank you blonde VA nurse!

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quiettryit t1_j1km6yn wrote

Thank you so much for sharing that, you really do offer a great perspective! I'm a civilian and pay $17k/yr for health insurance with a $7k out of pocket for the family. It also takes me months to see a specialist and doesn't include dental or vision. I have permanent disabilities due to lack of treatment from military doctors, ironically, when I was a toddler and my dad was in the air force. I get nothing from that and can't sue even though it was malpractice. I struggle to work and provide for my family. I get almost no psyche benefits and struggle. It feels like a black hole with no real help available. I don't fault veterans for getting their benefits, I just wish something could be done for civilians who try so hard and struggle. I'm glad you were able to get the help you needed and are doing better! I appreciate your service and hope that it world gets better for everyone in the future.

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forgot_to_growup t1_j1l3s2b wrote

I worked as a civilian nurse at an army hospital. Active Duty personnel and Veterans received excellent care that was on par or better than civilian hospitals. The staff were also treated better and not worked to the bone the way they are at for profit private hospitals. Conservatives keep pouring the Kool Aid and their constituents greedily drink it up.

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Willow-girl t1_j1lbqql wrote

Two of my husbands were former military and had to deal with the VA in two different states. It was a nightmare. I'm glad to hear the facility you worked at was a good one but that isn't universal.

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forgot_to_growup t1_j1o1wih wrote

Maybe it depends on the state. Working in healthcare in red and blue states is very different. Blue states are much better.

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Willow-girl t1_j1olhud wrote

Both were in blue states, MI and PA.

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forgot_to_growup t1_j26egoe wrote

Trump won the first time in both of those states. Biden only won narrowly in 2020.

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Willow-girl t1_j27ic2x wrote

Trump's 2016 win in Michigan was the first time Michiganders went Republican for POTUS in nearly a quarter-century. Pennsylvania's registered voters are 49% Democrat to 37% Republican.

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quiettryit t1_j1mkpr4 wrote

I don't think they understand how bad medical care is in the civilian sector. Waiting months to see a specialist, paying thousands for minor procedures in addition to thousands per month in premiums and many doctors not even accepting new patients. We had to drive 5 hours before to find an in network specialist. The nurses and doctors were indeed burned out as it's like a warzone in civilian hospitals too while military and VA facilities had so many employees that many could just sit and hang out most being civil service and Public employees or contractors. They want everyone to think they are so abused, but if that's true then just look at the care everyday civilians deal with on a daily basis.

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GrislyGrape t1_j1k14u9 wrote

Or their tribes can pay for it with the money they take in from casinos. It's a racket, just like non natives.

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amreinj t1_j1kitwn wrote

The US owes us more. Pay your rent.

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forgot_to_growup t1_j1l2w00 wrote

We owe ourselves more.

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amreinj t1_j1l3ogi wrote

Literally no, there's legal precedent to back up this too. The tribes in AK have decent restitution because we proved it was owed by the US government. It doesn't matter how long ago something was, the US government is still around and they still need to pay their debts. Honestly it's a good way to test socialized healthcare and prove it can work on a larger scale.

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ThellraAK t1_j1l7pq3 wrote

Try looking at ANTHCs just through IHS.

Our services would be absolute shit without third party payments.

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Willow-girl t1_j1lbkoa wrote

> Honestly it's a good way to test socialized healthcare and prove it can work on a larger scale.

The article doesn't sound like it's working too well.

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