dupattaluella t1_j9knqo6 wrote
Not trying to be insensitive or anything, but what's different for trans people than non trans people when it comes to haircuts? I would think you'd want someone who knows your hair more than someone who knows your orientation.
Edit: After some of the replies, I feel bad for what trans people go through. Some of the people who've replied make it obvious they assume gender off hairstyle. My female cousin, who identified as female, used to have super short hair. I hope she didn't have to go through assumptions of being male just because of her choice of hairstyle. And I hope hairstylists aren't being assumptive aholes either. People should be able to have whatever haircut they want and not have to state their gender in the process.
LetsGoHome t1_j9koc13 wrote
They likely just don't want to risk being subjected to transphobic abuse.
dupattaluella t1_j9ksqpa wrote
I don't even understand why you have to tell a hairstylist if you're trans, lesbian, gay, nonbinary, straight, etc. It makes no sense and doesn't change the fact of how to cut someone's hair.
Wendon t1_j9ku5w5 wrote
Yeah it does, if a male presenting person is asking for help presenting more female or vice versa it will obviously come up, don't be dense. Hair is tremendously gendered.
dupattaluella t1_j9kvqv7 wrote
>Hair is tremendously gendered.
Maybe to you, but not everyone sees hair as a gendered thing. I see men and women with a variety of cuts, styles, and colors. I have no idea if they're trying to present a certain way or not because of all the variety. I know men who identify as men and have long curly hair. I know women who identify as women who have short spiked hair. My female cousin even had a fauxhawk for a while. If I think someone has nice or cool hair, I tell them. I don't wonder how they're trying to present since there's so much variety nowadays.
Wendon t1_j9kw17j wrote
Ok dude, but it obviously matters to the person who made this post, so why are you going out of your way to fight about it? I don't care if it matters to you. I'm not trying to refer you to a stylist. Good for you.
dupattaluella t1_j9kwjdd wrote
I'm trying to understand this but all I'm getting is "hair is gendered" when it's not. Any stylist who cares how someone wants to cut their hair and will judge a person for it isn't a good person. Doesn't matter what the customer's gender is.
Wendon t1_j9kx8vn wrote
You are not communicating like someone who wants to understand, you are communicating like someone who wants to fight about something. If you are being genuine you should maybe think about why you are being so combative about it. If I showed up to a salon and asked my stylist to help me look more feminine and they responded like you, "what do you mean feminine, you don't think women can have short or buzzed hair" I would leave and go to a different stylist. I cannot believe you are acting in good faith.
dupattaluella t1_j9kyer7 wrote
What is feminine hair though? This is what I'm trying to get across. I see people who look masculine and people who look feminine with long hair, short hair, buzzed hair, bald, curly hair, straight hair, wavy hair, etc. Trying to present masculine or feminine is literally different to everyone.
Wendon t1_j9kykr8 wrote
You know very well what constitutes feminine hair you're just starting a fight.
dupattaluella t1_j9kzv2a wrote
No. I don't. If I said only women have long hair, isn't that kind of sexist? If I said only men have short hair, isn't that also kind of sexist. This idea that hair is gendered is a sexist idea to me. Anyone can have any hairstyle and if someone sees gender based on hair, they're the one with the problem.
LetsGoHome t1_j9l4qjl wrote
So you're gonna walk up to a men's barbershop and ask for a wolf cut?
dupattaluella t1_j9l9ku9 wrote
No, I don't want a wolf cut. But, if I did, I'd go to my hairstylist and ask if she knows how to do that style since I already trust her with my hair. If not, I'd ask her for recommendations before searching on my own.
haunted_waffles t1_j9kumu2 wrote
It’s mostly because certain styles of haircut are categorized as “for men” or “for women.” For example, a trans man who hasn’t medically transitioned might go to a salon for a men’s short haircut, but leave with a pixie cut because their stylist either (1) assumed that’s what they wanted because they perceive the client as a woman or (2) are actively transphobic and gave them a feminine haircut on purpose to make them conform to their assigned gender (or to just be mean). Also, it is not fun to have someone who is hostile (transphobic) towards you cut your hair in general.
dupattaluella t1_j9kvw3p wrote
I think people put too much thought and time into this. With all the variety in hairstyles across all genders nowadays, I don't think you can say hair is gendered anymore.
Wendon t1_j9kwp3d wrote
You are literally arguing with everyone on this post about it so maybe you should look in the mirror here and do some reflection as to why your gut instinct when a trans person is asking for stylist recs why you feel the need to turn it into a political discussion
outb0undflight t1_j9o9j20 wrote
>maybe you should look in the mirror here and do some reflection as to why your gut instinct when a trans person is asking for stylist recs why you feel the need to turn it into a political discussion
Every time this person posts it devolves into a desperate attempt to prove how much smarter they are than everyone else. Leftists, feminists, people who got the COVID vaccine, their electric company...it's honestly kind of fascinating. I've never seen someone JAQ themselves off this hard.
I'll be honest, I do not believe they're trolling, I've seen their post history...they're just like this.
Wendon t1_j9ocgsj wrote
Yeah I mean, "trolling" is understating the severity, they're a grade-A grifter asshole if you look at all of their responses and then read the edit on the parent post. No idea what compels someone to suck this badly, seems boring.
dupattaluella t1_j9ky07a wrote
I'm saying I don't believe hair is gendered and don't understand why this is a big issue. I keep getting met with reiterating that hair is gendered. It's not a good explanation. And how is this political when I'm saying I see a variety of haircuts on people nowadays? That's not political, that's an observation.
Wendon t1_j9kyu3z wrote
If one person in a room doesn't think hair is gendered and literally everyone else in the room thinks it is, how are you concluding that hair isn't gendered
dupattaluella t1_j9l09x3 wrote
Maybe I know different people than you. Everyone I know doesn't see gender based on hair. That's very sexist imo. It's like making a judgement of how someone will behave based on their hairstyle, what their voice will sound like, what genitalia they have, etc. It's not right.
Wendon t1_j9l0o3o wrote
I'm gonna drop out of this now because I know with 100% certainty that you are being deliberately combative about this, and know what you are doing. The reason OP is asking for a trans-friendly hair stylist is because they don't want to get a haircut from someone like you.
dupattaluella t1_j9l1sf4 wrote
Nope. It's crazy to me how many people, like yourself, assume someone's gender on their hairstyle.
Wendon t1_j9l2pc2 wrote
Literally not a single person on this thread said that. You are being deliberately obtuse. You know for an absolute fact that you are being a debate bro about this. OP asked a simple question and you turned it into a debate, I hope I never meet someone like you IRL. Cannot imagine deliberately being a dickhead on purpose to someone looking for help, I'm just not built like that.
dupattaluella t1_j9l9j2r wrote
You, and others, are saying hairstyles are gendered. You've even stated some hairstyles are feminine. That means you identify someone's gender by their hairstyle. I'm not the one who sees gender in hairstyles.
haunted_waffles t1_j9kxdoh wrote
Anyone can have any hairstyle for sure. But hair styles are a part of how people express their genders. And when you are talking about different hairstyles in the context of going to a salon, different styles are currently considered more feminine or masculine. And unfortunately there are stylists who simply won’t give people they perceive as men “women’s” haircuts and vice versa. So, for trans people to actually get the styles they want when they visit the salon, they need to make sure the stylist will actually be willing to give them those hairstyles. It would be nice if this wasn’t a problem trans people face, but right now it is.
dupattaluella t1_j9kzk8j wrote
>So, for trans people to actually get the styles they want when they visit the salon, they need to make sure the stylist will actually be willing to give them those hairstyles.
Maybe I've just never encountered this, but I don't know any hairstylist who won't take your money and give you the hairstyle you want. They may ask if you're sure you want to take 10 inches off or go from black to blonde hair, but that's usually because it's such a drastic change and they want to be sure before they start messing with your hair. Most hairstylists will gladly give you what you want in exchange for you giving them money.
haunted_waffles t1_j9lm02b wrote
Yeah unfortunately it is a real thing trans people deal with. I’m glad you haven’t personally faced this problem, but it is an experience that is real for others.
dupattaluella t1_j9m4x8k wrote
It's crazy to me what some people on here were saying to me about hairstyles equating to gender. I've never been around people who assume gender based on hairstyles. I don't see an issue with anyone having a hairstyle they want, no matter how they identify.
LetsGoHome t1_j9kt6tb wrote
Well this person isn't telling them anything about their sexuality. They're telling them they're trans. They're two very different things. She said in her post that she hasn't transitioned yet - so she is currently presenting as a man. She wants a hair stylist that she can tell she is a woman and not get transphobic hate for it. So basically, currently appears as a man, wants to talk women haircuts safely. Does that make more sense?
dupattaluella t1_j9kuo7n wrote
No, it doesn't make sense. I see men with stereotypical female hair all the time. I don't ever wonder their gender as I don't care. I see both men and women with varieties of hairstyles and colors. Being afraid of what someone will think of your hairstyle preference doesn't seem like an inherently trans issue to me. It seems like an issue that stems from someone being afraid of what others think of them as a whole, which happens to many people, no matter their gender or orientation.
LetsGoHome t1_j9kxay8 wrote
Hm yes, but trans people have a risk of being murdered, harassed, and more. She wants to prevent that. I get that you don't see gender or w/e but many. Many. People do. And society is still not super safe for trans folks.
dupattaluella t1_j9kz3vk wrote
I can understand there are some people who look down on trans people, but I don't understand why a hairstylist even needs to know your gender identity. I don't discuss my gender identity with my stylist and she's never asked. I tell her how I want my hair to look. I've had many hairstyles, even super short, throughout my life and never once discussed my gender. This is what I don't get.
No one seems to be able to explain this. It keeps going back to people being transphobic over hairstyles when hairstyles come in all varieties no matter the gender. And people keep talking about presenting feminine or masculine when all genders have a variety of hairstyles and they crossover between genders. To me, this is akin to thinking only females can have long hair and only males can have short hair. If all you see is gender identity when you look at someone's hairstyle, I think that's a problem.
LetsGoHome t1_j9l1tiw wrote
Yes, you don't need to discuss your gender identity with your hair stylist. This is because you are cisgender - your gender presentation matches your identity. They do not have this luxury.
Wendon t1_j9l3ydh wrote
Don't engage, this person is deliberately trolling. They got me too.
LetsGoHome t1_j9l62kk wrote
At least someone else reading can have a valuable takeaway.
Wendon t1_j9l6mub wrote
I just feel bad OP's post got hijacked by this asshole but yeah, hopefully it is a productive read for anyone approaching in good faith.
dupattaluella t1_j9l2i3s wrote
Why do you assume I'm cisgender? That's quite rude and presumptive of you. Are you someone who assumes gender based on hairstyle too?
LetsGoHome t1_j9l5z1v wrote
Japan is divided into 47 prefectures (都道府県, todōfuken, [todoːɸɯ̥ꜜkeɴ]), which rank immediately below the national government and form the country's first level of jurisdiction and administrative division. They include 43 prefectures proper (県, ken), two urban prefectures (府, fu: Osaka and Kyoto), one "circuit" or "territory" (道, dō: Hokkai-dō) and one metropolis (都, to: Tokyo). In 1868, the Meiji Fuhanken sanchisei administration created the first prefectures (urban fu and rural ken) to replace the urban and rural administrators (bugyō, daikan, etc.) in the parts of the country previously controlled directly by the shogunate and a few territories of rebels/shogunate loyalists who had not submitted to the new government such as Aizu/Wakamatsu. In 1871, all remaining feudal domains (han) were also transformed into prefectures, so that prefectures subdivided the whole country. In several waves of territorial consolidation, today's 47 prefectures were formed by the turn of the century. In many instances, these are contiguous with the ancient ritsuryō provinces of Japan.[1]
dupattaluella t1_j9l9ql8 wrote
I don't understand how this explains why you assume I'm cisgendered.
LetsGoHome t1_j9laelj wrote
"I don't even understand why you have to tell a hairstylist if you're trans, lesbian, gay, nonbinary, straight, etc"
This sentence tells me. Hope that helps! Xoxo
dupattaluella t1_j9lbtmd wrote
Why are you assuming no one but cisgendered people think you shouldn't have to state your gender identity to get a haircut? That's very small minded and makes it seem like you think everyone but cisgendered people are hyperfocused on how someone identifies when it comes to getting a haircut.
This also goes back to your thinking that someone needs a "feminine" haircut to be seen as feminine. Do you see men with your perceived feminine haircuts to be feminine? Do you assume those men identify as women?
Enragedocelot t1_j9m2aw9 wrote
You a troll, keep rolling dawg, buzz outta here
dupattaluella t1_j9mbmxn wrote
Not a troll. I'm not the one stating you can assume someone's gender by their hairstyle (not saying you did this, but others who've chatted with me have). It's absolutely disgusting that someone can say they're inclusive while also assuming gender based on hairstyles.
Wendon t1_j9ks8r9 wrote
They probably are a new trans who hasn't figured out how to style as their gender yet, and are trying to get referred to someone who can help them who isn't transphobic.
dupattaluella t1_j9ku8ww wrote
I guess I just don't understand how a haircut and styling hair had anything to with gender. I see men and women with long hair and short hair, dyed hair, buzzed heads, etc. I don't look at their styles as indicative of their gender in any way.
Wendon t1_j9kvmy6 wrote
You are overcomplicating this. Against my better judgement I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are being earnest- it doesn't matter what you think when you look at someone, if you think they are male or female or trans. It doesn't matter that some men have 3' long hair and some women have buzzed heads. It matters to them that they are presenting as the gender they are, in a way that makes them feel comfortable in their bodies. This is a really 101-level way for a trans person to improve their dysphoria, I urge you to do some research on gender dysphoria if you are genuinely interested in the topic.
dupattaluella t1_j9kwc4i wrote
>You are overcomplicating this.
I think the inverse is actually true.
>It matters to them that they are presenting as the gender they are, in a way that makes them feel comfortable in their bodies.
And that doesn't change how a hairstylist cuts their hair. If a hairstylist is going to judge anyone (no matter their gender) on what they do with their hair, they're not a good stylist or person.
Wendon t1_j9kwv6e wrote
Yes it literally does? If I show up and tell the stylist "I want to present more feminine can you help my hair communicate that" it absolutely does matter. You're a bully, you cannot possibly be acting in good faith, no one is this dense.
dupattaluella t1_j9kybut wrote
What is feminine hair though? This is what I'm trying to get across. I see people who look masculine and people who look feminine with long hair, short hair, buzzed hair, bald, curly hair, straight hair, wavy hair, etc. Trying to present masculine or feminine is literally different to everyone.
mellymellcaramel t1_j9p2pdu wrote
Some people hate trans people for existing. Have you seen the news lately?
dupattaluella t1_j9p5gun wrote
Some people hate women, some people hate men, some people hate certain religions, some people hate [fill in the blank]. I see all sorts of hate in the news almost daily. To live a life focusing on the fact some people hate [fill in the blank] is a life not fully lived.
mellymellcaramel t1_j9phjdw wrote
For you, but as a woman, I too fear being in spaces with all men. I’ve had bad lived experiences, but you may have not had, that affect my decisions today. Not everybody has had your life or your experiences, and view the world differently.
dupattaluella t1_j9plqar wrote
>Not everybody has had your life or your experiences, and view the world differently.
Exactly. You can't make judgements on behalf of other people based on your own lived experiences.
I was raped as a child but I don't fear all men. It wasn't all men that did that to me, just one man. But, I know some women who judge all men (or all women if it was a woman who raped them) based on the one person. I know men and women who've been raped that cannot move past it mentally and will have highly emotional reactions in certain situations.
This is the same for many traumas. If you let the trauma run your life, you will never be able to move past it and run your own life. Read Man's Search for Meaning sometime. It's very eye opening on how some people were hollow shells of themselves after the Holocaust and how some were still able to live fulfilling lives despite the atrocities they were put through. It's extremely emotional at times, just as a warning, but it is an amazing example of how you can persevere.
mellymellcaramel t1_ja4fx7m wrote
Yes, you can absolutely make judgements. That’s what people do. If I see a raccoon acting strange I’m going to make a judgment and assume it has rabies. But it could be possibly sick, but I’m using my life experiences to make a call to keep me safe. And I’ll apply that in all areas of my life. I’m not living in fear, and I’m living fully. It’s okay to be weary of people places or things based on lived experiences.
dupattaluella t1_ja4jw4s wrote
>It’s okay to be weary of people places or things based on lived experiences.
Never said it wasn't OK. Being alert and understanding your surroundings is much different then making assumptions and judgments. Making assumptions and judgements of people of a certain group based on only the people you've been in contact with that were shitty isn't right. Again, if someone did that to black people, it would be called racism. If people did that to trans people, it would be called hate and bigotry. So what is it when you choose to dislike all men and be leary of all men? I feel like there's a word for that. 🤔
And of course you'd be leary of a racoon acting strange. It's a wild animal. That's much different than a human being who isn't going to be exposed to rabies as much as animals living in the wild would be.
mellymellcaramel t1_ja9oq77 wrote
LIf there’s a hundred men in the room and one of them is a serial killer, I’m going to avoid all 100 men. Again, you can judge people to keep yourself safe, and it’s done subconsciously every day. So, if there’s a hundred barbers in worcester and one of them is transphobic, wouldn’t you want to try and find out which one?
dupattaluella t1_ja9zerm wrote
>LIf there’s a hundred men in the room and one of them is a serial killer, I’m going to avoid all 100 men
How do you know there's a serial killer in the room?
>Again, you can judge people to keep yourself safe, and it’s done subconsciously every day.
Never said you couldn't. I'm saying if you judge people based on what someone did, or said, to you before, you're being prejudice (or bias if you want a nicer word). You're making assumptions of people. With my past examples, this could be racist or sexist, so how is it any different in this case?
>So, if there’s a hundred barbers in worcester and one of them is transphobic, wouldn’t you want to try and find out which one?
Nope. I'd go to a barber and see how the interaction goes. 1/100 is such a small chance that it's not worth the time and effort to figure out which one it is.
Also, you're using "transphobic" incorrectly. Phobic is a suffix from the Greek language and literally means having or involving an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something. Such as arachniphobic, which is an extreme fear of spiders. You can't decide to change the Greek language that has been set for around 2400 years. Or did you think arachniphobic meant to have an extreme hatred or bigotry of spiders?
mellymellcaramel t1_jaa4gin wrote
You’re really insufferable.
Good for you that you would go to a barber without checking which one. This person chose not to do that, and that is perfectly OK. I’m not answering your straw man questions about how I know there’s a serial killer.
I didn’t invent the word transphobic, go write a letter to Merrimack Webster and tell them all about your feelings.
dupattaluella t1_jaaau3l wrote
You seem very upset at the fact that I see verifying 100 barbers as too much work. And you don't want to answer my question as to how you'd know who's a serial killer because you wouldn't be able to without someone telling you or you looking it up.
It's Merriam Webster. They chose to add the word "discrimination" to any word using "phobic" that's centered around people, yet don't do that for any other "phobic" words. They also don't define "phobic" using the word "discrimination." So, you can probably see how they've adapted Greek words to mean whatever they want them to mean. By you using the word, you are saying you agree. By agreeing, you are changing Greek words that have been established for about 2400 years and choosing when and when not to add the meaning of bigotry or hatred to the suffix "phobic." You are picking and choosing when and where "phobic" means one thing vs another.
mellymellcaramel t1_jaax58l wrote
TL:DR
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