Electricity Bill Update

Submitted by dupattaluella t3_10lro99 in WorcesterMA

Original post here

TL;DR on original post: we had high bills and were trying to find out ways to save on electricity.

We had our meter switched out yesterday with a new meter. We used to have the old meter back from when NG had different rates throughout the day, and three different readings that cycled on the meter, and couldn't read it. They kept telling me the reading for usage was sent to them automatically each month, but they never kept track per day and no one could tell us how to read the meter.

I was starting to think NG was ripping us off and I'm thinking I was right.

In about 18 hours, we've used 9 kwh. Our last bill, with our old meter, was just under 800 kwh. If we look at the 9 kwh in 18 hours, we should use about 12 kwh per day. That would calculate to about 360 kwh per month (30 days) or less than half of what we've been supposedly using each month.

If you think NG might be ripping you off, ask for a new meter. Ours is now the AMR, electronic meter with one static reading. It's free for you to get a new meter and it could end up magically changing your usage.

73

Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

Chippopotanuse t1_j5z2848 wrote

Can you post another update after a week or so? If your trend holds up…wow.

My concern would be that 18 hours might not be long enough to get an accurate ability to extrapolate a month’s worth of use.

The utility should offer rebates if it’s clear the old meter was way off. If you were being charged DOUBLE your actual usage, that’s insane.

26

dupattaluella OP t1_j5z4c0m wrote

Yeah. I can definitely post another update in a couple weeks.

17

Icy_1 t1_j5ykd5p wrote

Thanks for the heads-up! This is huge.

7

C6H12O4 t1_j604z51 wrote

I don't live in Worcester anymore, however I may be able to help. I work for the NYS Department of Public Service, and we regulate utilities. Every state has a version of one, in MA it's called the Department of Public Utilities. I would reach out to them to help.

In NY the law is that a customer can request a meter investigation where the utility will pull the meter and test it in the presence of a DPS meter expert. If it was found to be out of spec you would be refunded the difference. I'm not sure what the regs are in MA but I would call and see.

Some of my other thoughts are that 800 kWh a month seems on the high side that works out to an average 1.11kW continuously. I had an issue where I would keep the fan on my forced air heat all the time to keep air flowing but it was actually using around 800-900 watts so I would check that l.

Also commodity prices for natural gas and fuel oils have been very volatile and high. Utilities pass these costs directly onto the customer, they don't profit off it or mark it up. Generally utilities will try and hedge these costs so that ratepayers are insulated from the volatility but all hedging can do is smooth it out. What I'm trying to say is that the utilities don't have much control over the supply portion of the bill.

I would also check what rate code/service class you are in, it should be listed on your bill. If you had a meter that tracked different periods you may be on a time varying rate which could affect the bill as well.

6

dupattaluella OP t1_j60675u wrote

Well, my meter was switched out yesterday so it's a moot point unless my kwh don't change starting with my next bill.

1

C6H12O4 t1_j607ngp wrote

They likely still have it at their meter shop, if you would like it tested.

Additionally while it does happen it is rare that the meters are off especially by 2x. They are pretty rigorously tested during the certification process. The other possibility is an issue with NG's billing system which is more common of an issue. The MA DPU can likely help with that as well.

7

Rmcneil87 t1_j5z9kdp wrote

Your difference has nothing to do with the meter technically. It’s the program the meter is on. You just changed from AMI (“smart metering”)to AMR. Your meter more than likely was already being read wirelessly as 99% of residential are, because NG charges a fee to have someone come out and read your meter monthly. AMI meters are designed so you can use power during the cheapest time(off peak hours) to cut the costs.

Customer service is useless and 85% of the time have no clue what they’re saying. Just trying to get you off the line.

Pretty much everyone hates AMI though, as there’s no real instruction on how to use them properly. And a customer service rep has no clue about any of the technical details. They basically read from a script.

2

Rmcneil87 t1_j5za2c8 wrote

Also, they can’t really rip you off via metering…The state audits a percentage of meters randomly yearly. Mechanical failure on meters is pretty low especially in newer meters that are digital versus older style glass meters which use a disk and gears to spin.

2

dupattaluella OP t1_j5zlr94 wrote

The AMI meters shouldn't submit readings for more kwhs each month than the AMR meters. Plus, the program ended over a year ago, per NG customer service. So, that doesn't explain why I was being charged for almost 800 kwhs last month and I'm now seeing 12 kwh in the last 24 hours (checked the meter again on the 24 hour mark from install).

Since the AMI meter has three different readings it cycles through, and no one at NG could explain how to accurately read the meter, it tells me they were either getting some innacurate readings I was being charged for OR they were ripping me off purposely. It took me months of asking for a new meter to get one. I was starting to suspect them, but wanted to give the benefit of the doubt. When they acted as if switching out a meter was impossible and having someone come out to explain how to read the AMI meter would never happen, I started to wonder if it was them ripping me off.

If my next full cycle (which will start early February through early March) is closer to 360 kwh, I'll know it was the meter and/or NG trying to rip me off. Since the replacement happened mid cycle this time, I should see a decrease this next bill as well (which I should get the second week of February).

2

Rmcneil87 t1_j6194ot wrote

Were your bills actual or estimates? I promise you they’re not trying to screw you— anymore than any other utility does.

Also, one days usage is a fraction of the whole picture.

2

dupattaluella OP t1_j61dsiy wrote

I'm confused on the question asking if my bills were actual or estimates. There's no way for me to know. They told me they get an auto reading once per month that tells them how many kwh I've used. But, I used to not be able to read my meter as I had no idea which of the three numbers to look at so I have no idea.

−1

Rmcneil87 t1_j68fhy3 wrote

There is a way…it says it in the bill itself. It will say actual or estimated.

1

dupattaluella OP t1_j68oss5 wrote

Ah, I see what you mean. It says actual. In all my prevuous bills, the current reading says "0 Actual" and the previous reading says "0 Actual". So, if those are actual readings, I shouldn't be charged anything, right?

1

Rmcneil87 t1_j68ftk1 wrote

Meters have radios in them. It pings a signal every few seconds. Bills are done In cycles. Every cycle is a different area of the city/coverage area. They have a vehicle with a transponder that drives around and collects the data sent from each individual meter. That’s how they “automatically” get a reading from your meter every month. Unless you pay the (I think it’s $15 I could be wrong) money to have someone physically come read your meter. You can also ask them to have someone come re-read the meter if you think there was an error.

0

dupattaluella OP t1_j68p5f3 wrote

I was told they pull an electronic reading once per month on my cycle end date because I'm close enough to one of their centers. In all my previous bills, the current reading says "0 Actual" and the previous reading says "0 Actual". So, if those are actual readings, I shouldn't be charged anything, right?

1

Rmcneil87 t1_j68pbu0 wrote

I’d honestly have to look at the bill to tell you what the breakdown is. Smart metering bills are different than your typical

1

dupattaluella OP t1_j69u8nw wrote

There is no breakdown. It literally says "0 Actual" for both current and previous. No readings anywhere on the bill.

0

Rmcneil87 t1_j69uhuj wrote

there should always be a reading, even if its an estimate it will tell you what the estimated usage is. if there is not any usage information I would definitely contact them and ask why. I have no explanation for that.

0

dupattaluella OP t1_j69vfo9 wrote

>there should always be a reading, even if its an estimate it will tell you what the estimated usage is

Well, there isn't.

>if there is not any usage information I would definitely contact them and ask why.

I have. They say its because I have a smart meter so it doesn't show my usage. This is one of the reasons I think they're trying to screw me on my electricity bill.

>I have no explanation for that.

Then, I don't think you know more than the "average person" and really shouldn't act like you do. You can help someone without sounding condescending and as if you have the "utility worker" version of the doctor complex.

1

Rmcneil87 t1_j69w36t wrote

No, I'm just competent enough to read and understand my bill, lol.

ignorance is bliss~

0

dupattaluella OP t1_j69wwrd wrote

You can't seem to explain the "0 actual" for current and previous readings, so 🤷‍♀️

1

Rmcneil87 t1_j69x2fu wrote

You can't seem to post the thing so people can try and help you....you've got it all figured out by the looks of it~ good luck like I said.

1

Rmcneil87 t1_j69vpfy wrote

you can downvote me all you like, you're probably missing something here. And i'm the only person giving you relevant information and possible solutions to your problem-- I won't comment again. good luck addressing your issues, hope the best for you.

0

mtbmike t1_j5zvvdu wrote

We did have a period of very cold weather around Christmas, i think that’s probably your last billing period?

2

dupattaluella OP t1_j5zw6pj wrote

The last two bills were almost identical is kwh. That accounts for early November through early January.

Plus, we used our wood fireplace more last month to offset the use of our furnace.

2

mtbmike t1_j5zwio4 wrote

Yeah it was super warm in November early December i was still golfing haha. So that’s not a factor i guess but as you know many things can affect your Bill. I hope you are correct tho!

1

dupattaluella OP t1_j5zx68w wrote

We only used 12 kwh as of the 24 hour mark from installation, so I'm thinking I may be correct. I'll see what happens this next bill though. It was switched out almost exactly at the mid cycle mark, so if my bill is closer to 570kwh, I think I can assume I was correct. I'll still wait for the next full cycle bill to be sure though.

1

CGmoz t1_j603psk wrote

NG is pretty well regulated, it would be quite a scandal if they were ripping you off on purpose.

I think it is more likely that one of your neighbours (are you in a 3 decker?) was hooked up to your electric somehow. If it was an accident, it might've gotten fixed then the meter was swapped. If not, definitely keep an eye out.

2

C6H12O4 t1_j608gb9 wrote

I doubt it would have been fixed during the meter swap. Meter swaps are very quick and easy they just pop right out. If the tech had noticed something a miss in the meter pan they would not have touched it and alerted OP bc the meter plan is the customers responsibility.

Your point about a neighbor using OP's electricity is very possible.

6

dupattaluella OP t1_j6061kf wrote

How would my AMI meter get swapped for another AMI meter when the AMI meters are now obsolete?

I've had an AMI until yesterday.

0

CGmoz t1_j606qnx wrote

Huh? No, your neighbour would have been hooked into the electric line somewhere downstream of the meter, it wouldn't have been based on a meter swap.

But when the electric company gave you a new meter, they might have fixed it - or whoever was tapped in noticed you noticed and stopped.

This happens by accident a lot in 3 deckers - some electrician isn't paying attention and hooks one unit's outlet into another unit's breaker box or something.

2

dupattaluella OP t1_j60da7z wrote

We're in a single house, so they'd have to be tapped in somewhere else. I don't think a switch of the meter would have fixed that.

Beyond that, I called and complained for 3-4 months since I didn't agree with our bill relative the year before (looking at kwh, not cost) and after a few months of complaining the kwh decreased by about 200kwh/month with no change on our end.

I truly think NG was trying to rip us off. Maybe they're in cahoots with solar companies since we get door to door solar sales people at least once per month for the last year.

0

Rmcneil87 t1_j619qvw wrote

Lol, this is a pretty ridiculous statement. It’s more likely to be an error than some giant conspiracy to bill you more. I don’t think you have a clue how regulated that industry is. Especially in MA

3

dupattaluella OP t1_j61dxup wrote

Well, then they used an error to take advantage of someone who was calling and complaining for months, telling them multiple times they couldn't switch out the meter, then suddenly being able to switch out the meter.

1

Rmcneil87 t1_j68fe6x wrote

You and thousands of other people— utilities are not magic, they deal with hundreds of thousands of customers. It’s an impossible ask to expect immediate answers or change. You should post your bills from the previous two years during the same time frame, and then compare it to the new readings with your new meter. One day of usage doesn’t come close to telling you the full story. One week isn’t enough either.

If it’s proven that they have over billed you , they will credit you. This is why myself and others have told you to contact the DPU. There are processes for everything. You need to have the patience and understanding to work that process. Complaining here or taking frustrations out on a representative isn’t going to get your situation corrected.

Again, I think you’re grasping at straws with the conspiracy thing. They’re not purposely trying to screw your over.

0

dupattaluella OP t1_j68oemq wrote

Well, once I have bills with this new meter, I'll update you. We can see how big of a difference it makes. And when I contact them for credits, I'll let you know what they say. You seem to have too much trust in them for no reason.

1

Rmcneil87 t1_j68pk3x wrote

I have no trust in any company. But I know how they operate and I have experience in the field. So I’d wager to say I have a better understanding of how metering and billing and utility construction works than your average person.

0

dupattaluella OP t1_j69ue4p wrote

Well, if my current and previous readings show as "0 actual" what amount of kwh should I be getting charged for?

1

Leuvedo t1_j5z3kah wrote

How did you go about getting your meter replaced?

1

dupattaluella OP t1_j5z48lk wrote

I called and asked 5 times before they finally did anything.

4

erwin_s t1_j620q61 wrote

I put a monitor in my panel. The amount I record with the monitor closely matches my NG bill.

1

dupattaluella OP t1_j63364w wrote

I didn't know you could do that. Is this something I can get at Home Depot or Lowes?

1

erwin_s t1_j63mdn6 wrote

I am not sure if you can get them locally, I bought mine from Amazon.

Link here.

I am willing to bet that there are cheaper monitors out there. The one I use monitors all power in, but also every circuit. So when my bill is 300$, I can see the space heater cost me x$ and my laundry dryer cost me y$.

A handy person could install this themselves, but if you are not handy or don't have the time you would need an electrician. Think around 300$ for the best device and 1 hour of an electrician's time.

If you were to buy the simplest monitor (only main power), it is a bit cheaper and easier to install. Link here. So only around 90$ assuming you DIY.

I was CONVINCED there was a problem with my meter, which is why I bought the system. It turns out I just had some appliances that used WAY more than I expected, and I had some bad habits with turning things off.

I guess since I mentioned DIY, if you are not comfortable don't even try. Electricity is dangerous and no one wants to find your corpse in the basement next to the panel.

I could talk for days about the cost of electricity in this state. I grew up in PA, and we are paying 300% more than my friends back in Pittsburgh.

2

dupattaluella OP t1_j63os0o wrote

Thank you for all the info! Based on the new meter's readings over the last almost 48 hours, I do think we were being charged for WAY more than we used. I'm still going to talk to my husband about the sensor though. We might wait to see how the next full month with the new meter goes, but this could come in handy.

1

Malefic-Angel t1_j5zr0md wrote

I switched to Constellation as a supplier. Nat Grid are crooks

0

dupattaluella OP t1_j5ztfcq wrote

This was mainly a meter issue. I checked at the 24 hour mark and were at 12 kwh. We did nothing different over those 24 hours than we've been doing the last couple months.

There's no way we'd be using almost 800kwh in a month if we use 12 kwh per day. It would be about 360kwh/month. Now, to account for potential fluctuation, let's say it was 400kwh/month. With my current rates, my most recent bill would have been $164.52 instead of $313.38. That's a $148.86 difference.

So, yeah, while we may not have the cheapest supplier (Worcester Green at $.25/kwh), that's not the main issue. I may consider other suppliers once I confirm we're not being screwed over anymore, but I want to get this resolved asap first.

1

Malefic-Angel t1_j5zvrk0 wrote

I hear ya. My apartment just had $315 due last month with hardly any change of activity. An increase of about $110.

0

Rmcneil87 t1_j619vse wrote

Let us know how that turns out for you in the long haul 👍🏻

1