love those neighborhoods’ architecture, but this is a critical chokepoint in the northeast corridor and building the tunnel is absolutely vital to ensuring broader connectivity and would provide long-term economic benefits to Baltimore

Starting nearly 5 years ago I think there's been a series of consultative meetings and neighborhood input; and an environmental impact plan done. I agree that this needs to continue and resident's concerns addressed, but all I read here was a lot of "if" and supposition- it's not clear exactly what of the projected and documented and disseminated impacts they are concerned about.

So obviously this tunnel needs to happen but why can’t they spend a drop or 2 from the vast ocean of fed gov spending to do some of the testing that these residents are concerned about or somehow otherwise placate those at risk of being affected?

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this project, like every other federally funded project, has 10s of thousands of pages of feasibility studies going back nearly a decade. the complainers cannot be placated, they just want to complain.

That’s a part of every major infrastructure project. Soil boring tests, resonant impacts, etc will be required, just as they are for every other project of a similar scope. Also, these tunnel boring machines may be “scary” but they are used in cities around the world every day. Baltimore is no different than Philly, a city that has recently completed a similar project.

NIMBY, bit freight project too.

Seattle just tunneled the 99

And except going over budget and way beyond the schedule, it went well.

>The plan brings the tunnel right under our houses. Most of the houses in Reservoir Hill were built in the 1900s, and we're very, very concerned about the impact of the drilling that's going to destroy these 100-some-year-old houses," Wright said.

They are just assuming that the boring machines will destroy their homes. This is based, I assume, on fear and nothing else. Tunnels are dug all around the world, all the time and while accidents do occasionally happen in America we have a pretty damn good track record (pun intended) of digging tunnels.

Look at NYC where they just a few years ago extended a line and added new stations under one of the most densely populated cities in the world. No news of entire houses caving in there.

Also saying this is the presidents plan is a bit disingenuous. This has been a project decades in the making. Biden just happened to be the president when it finally got started and funded. Certainly his infrastructure plan helped but lets not act like this was his plan when hundreds of people have worked on this for years.

One of the signs in the photo says this is a freight project explosives, toxic cargo nuclear waste.

1. Do they think those things aren't already on the trains that use this tunnel daily now?

2. Would they rather those things be shipped on trucks?

3. Fuck fear mongering idiots who throw out shit like nuclear and explosive just to scare people.

Same deal with the Purple Line connecting Silver Spring and Bethesda: locals were decrying the environmental impact and when that didn't work, the Chevy Chase Country Club clutched their pearls at the impact to their historic neighborhood. Also the recent proposal to run a maglev line from DC to Baltimore. Every town in that corridor protested because they'd get no direct benefit from it, which is part of the issue with these nimbys.

I ran into these people a few years ago at Druid hill park...they are mostly concerned that trains hauling oil and empty oil tankers under their houses and that the trains will be loud in their homes. I then talked to my brother who is an Engineer....they are already transporting oil and empty tankers everyday and also one would expect a new modern not 150 year tunnel would have better sound insulation than the current ones. These people's concerns are completely unfounded.

I work at UMD and years ago they were building a new dorm. The contractor had a big meeting with a bunch of different departments that may be impacted by construction. They spent a few minutes talking about the large crane that would be there for a few months mostly to let people know not to worry if it spins around as it was left unlocked inte totally while not in use to allow it to spin with the wind instead of being locked and adding stress on it. They also said that they make a point of not swinging material over existing buildings but would occasionally have to swing the unladen crane over buildings to pickup materials.

The person who ran the daycare which is next to the dorm basically told them that this was unacceptable because they had kids playing outside there and if that crane fell it would kill them.

I just thought, if that crane falls it doesn't matter if the kids are outside or inside it's crushing them all. Also would it be ok if it was just adults outside and the crane fell?

Like she was legitimately concerned about the placement of a crane because it might fall over and crush kids in daycare.

Not really sure what she thought thy would say to that. Like "shit you're right we need to cancel this project" as if cranes just fall over all the time.

Agreed, but name any big project that doesnt. I will wait.

It needs to get redone. Like NEEDS to get done. Sorry.

It's also important to note that the B&P tunnel is used mostly for passenger cars. Freight cars already go through the Howard Street Tunnel, which is also currently in the process of undergoing an expansion.

All of these concerns are based sorely in fear and because they don't understand the engineering behind it. These issues will all be heavily discussed and worked through as the project goes through design. They will install a heavy monitoring system during construction and have a number of stakeholder meetings.

Read the article, I’m talking about a specific comment that one of the protestors made

To be fair, MagLev would benefit very few of us. The tickets will be too expensive, the trains too far apart, and last I heard, it terminates at Camden Yards, with no plan to expand northeast. I'd be all about having an $8-$10 ride to D.C. that takes half an hour with more train options than a $30-$60 ride to D.C. that takes 15 minutes with fewer train options.

Agree completely. For the billions taxpayers would spend on a maglev line, they could run MARC trains between Baltimore and DC 24/7 with 10 minute headways, but that won't get press like a maglev/hyperloop/gondola/long-distance trebuchet.

I kinda want to see the trebuchet, though ;)

Also it’s important to note that all trains running through the new tunnel are required to be electrified. No diesel engines will be allowed in the new tunnel.

Well, there's the two camps. The trebuchet transit one and the catapult transit one. https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-12-2017/eUy4IT.gif

The one about no testing being done? The protester likely would have no way to know what, if any testing has taken place.

Oh, I wasn’t being sarcastic. I lived in Seattle when the tunnel was being dug. It was a cool project.

-Pretty sure there is not any freight on the corridor anymore South/West of Bayview Yard in East Baltimore.

-CSX redid the Virginia Ave tunnel in DC with similar concerns/ neighborhood outcry. I don't remember there being a whole lot of issues once they finally let them start construction.

I like how the best thing you can say about Sandtown-Winchester is there is some nice architecture

No one seems to really care about those communities, I wonder what the reaction would be if the new tunnel went under Hampden instead

Please god don’t let these ignorant fucks block progress for Baltimore, my god we need it

If it made a train go faster I would be for it.

This goes beyond baltimore. The BP tunnel is a choke point for freight trains and commercial traveling for the east coast. The project will bring billions for dollars in return

So would I, but I bet we'd see a lot more protests

It’s already approved and happening. They started work already

Maybe, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it

So their concerns are unfounded but also they would have no way of even verifying. Got it 🙄

Seems like a benefit for the daycare as kids flippin love cranes and watching construction.

The new Frederick Douglass Tunnel will only be used by passenger trains.

I lived at green lake elevated 99was downrite scary to drive down to get the ferry.

> They are just assuming that the boring machines will destroy their homes.

There is also a strange fear of below grade infrastructure. I've had tons of people tell me they prefer to ride the bus from Mondawmin to downtown because metro is underground. I'm from California, where the earth literally shakes regularly, and I haven't seen tunnel fear like this before.

Billions of dollars for who?

Tax revenue for everyone.

Does that mean that MARC is getting electrified? Or will they continue to use the old tunnel.

Honestly, the public doesn't care about these communities because it's where the "criminals" mostly live. Also, since the area is notorious for unemployment and poverty (things I speak volumes on because it's all manufactured poverty to a once thriving neighborhood) the powers that be don't have a huge incentive to listen to or care about the neighborhood. They don't provide a large tax base, so they are unfortunately ignored in favor of more prominent communities. This is wrong on so many levels, but it's the unfortunate reality of West Baltimore.

I'm sure if places like Resovoir Hill weren't undergoing gentrification, we probably wouldn't even hear about these protests for too long.

Electrified. Hogan is responsible for the diesel conversion for cost savings because he doesn't care about kids' lungs. They'll go back to electric.

Electrified. Hogan is responsible for the diesel conversion for cost savings because he doesn't care about kids' lungs. They'll go back to electric.

Have you noticed that the protestors (so 4 of the 5 that make up this group) are actually white, generally wealthier Reservoir Hill residents?

That's awesome!

Well also, there will be no freight in the new tunnel. These folks succeeded in opposing that so it will stay in the old, more dangerous tunnel with worse (ie no) ventilation systems that runs through the same poor communities. Big win all around /s.

There is an entire FEIS and ROD with specific answers to their concerns, they just don't believe the data and think it's made up. More tests confirming the prior data they already refuse to believe won't change their minds.

They could contact their councilperson or delegates who likely can share the info with them.

It sure would be nice if the news article would elaborate a bit more instead of just letting such a comment be made without any context

That's why it's on the news lol. Because Res. Hill is a gentrified area. If the protest was in Sandtown it would be a footnote to sensationalist media

Turns out Sandtown wants 20,000 city jobs with $50m in workforce training to get people into those labor apprenticeships.

Labor apprenticeships? I don't think I saw that on the article

I mean, there are sinkholes in Baltimore every year. I think there is a reasonable concern that could be addressed?

To be clear, I dont agree with the concern...I am a professional in the humanities who works with the population in the area. And I am wondering if the education and dissemination of information is being done in such a way that the engineering, and how the line would run with no freight is being distributed in a way that is effective.