Screw those bastards to the wall. They’re conspiring to kill, whether or not they care.

>Rahelin Reynoso, 33 and Quenty Ogando, 44, had bail set at $100,000 each at their arraignments Wednesday in Dorchester Municipal Court on charges of trafficking ...

>The seized fentanyl has a street value of about $2.25 million, the DA's office says.

That a decent amount of money.

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My first arrest earned me a $100,000 bail for a robbery in which I made off with $116… all of the principles upon which our cash bail system are supposed to have been built were pretty much abandoned completely on like day 2.

On the same day:

>In Chelsea District Court, Elizaul Landestoy Sanchez, 34, of Revere, is charged with counts relating to dealing cocaine and fentanyl.
>
>He’s behind bars on $100,000 bail after “a joint task force consisting of Revere and Lynn police, DEA agents and Massachusetts State Police executed a search warrant at 58 School Street in Revere and seized more than 509 grams of cocaine and more than 26 grams of fentanyl.”
>
>Some of the drugs, Hayden’s office said, “were found in a children’s bedroom.”
>
>Sanchez, per the office, has a “significant criminal record” that includes state prison time for drug trafficking.

your bail should have been higher lol

​

Robbery is a violent crime against a person. So taking "only $116" doesn't matter, it's the fact you robbed a human being and put them in fear of their life. It's a felony (probably more than one since most robberies use a weapon or have assault/battery charges to go along with it).

​

If anything, $100k is too little. Violent crimes like that should have no bail whatsoever.

Why in hell are they getting bail at all? If they possess one hundred pounds of Fentanyl, one hundred thousand dollars is nothing to them.

So just put people in jail indefinitely on the word of the police?

That seems problematic.

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Here is a fun pic that Sully and I found.

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By the court.

Violent crimes, no bail, remanded until trial.

Non violent, released on own recognizance.

Apparently 100 lbs of fentanyl is enough to kill every person in Massachusetts 3 times.

So yeah, good job, bury these mass murderers under the jail.

Murderpan at it again

The last line of the article
>Innocent, etc.

Lol, savage.

You're proposing that someone lose their freedom over an accusation of a crime. Surely you can see the issue with that?

The purpose of bail, per the Constitution, is to ensure people show up to trial. Not punish them pre-trial. My understanding is there is a dangerousness hearing process to determine if the circumstances warrant not providing bail at all, based on the seriousness of the crime and evidence. But if you get bail, it has to be affordable but also expensive enough to make sure they show up to court*

• I am definitely not a lawyer so all corrections are welcome

>If anything, $100k is too little. Violent crimes like that should have no bail whatsoever.

Nor should these guys who were keeping fentanyl in a child's bedroom.

Execute fentanyl dealers

You're commenting to people who's only understanding of the criminal justice system is from Law and Order.

It's because they don't actually have 100 lbs of fentanyl. The police like to inflate the numbers so that they seem more impressive. They actually have 100 lbs of powder that has trace amounts of fentanyl in it, but it's common practice to just label the entire thing as the drug, ignoring purity.

They didn't actually capture 100 lbs of fentanyl though.

I used to live a block from there…interesting neighborhood

I don't understand the point of Fentanyl. Maybe it's my innocent lamb DARE propaganda conditioning but is there any upside to using it? It seems like the only point of Fentanyl is to trick people into thinking it's heroin or something and then it kills them. Is it even possible to use Fentanyl safely?

Half of Reddit would like a word with you

Yup and the street value shit is a joke. Maybe if you broke up the amount into $5 bags and sold 200,000 of them. Which wouldn’t happen.

According to mass state law, the entirety of any mixture containing a drug is counted as that drug, because they intend to sell the mixture. So yeah, you’re totally right to point out that it’s misleading, but it’s not the police trying to “sound impressive”, it’s just the legal definition of what the suspects were in possession of.

And really, less pure = more profit, because they have 100 lbs of something to sell regardless of what it contains, and a higher proportion of that being a cutting agent rather than pure fentanyl means they have higher profit margins, so it makes the $100k even less significant to them.

Are you suggesting they track down each granule?

Or is it safe to say that the weight given by police speaks better to the idea that they were trafficking rather than possessing, since the dealers will divide it up later as necessary to wholesale?

Nobody does pure fentanyl. It’s all cut. So it’s one thing to try to push a simple possession charge but when we’re talking this size the whole number tells the whole story.

These guys were gonna make a fuck load of money off of the death and misery off of people and the fact that you’re trying to minimize it is pretty disgusting.

Technically yes. It’s used in hospitals as a pain killer. As a street user? No it’s not possible to use it safely. The difference between ingesting an amount that will get you high and an amount that will kill you is single digit milligrams. Something tells me dealers and users aren’t using pharma grade scales

you just answered your own question

How do you know? You can literally buy pure (relatively…95%+) fentanyl from the dark web

Easier to smuggle since you need less of it to provide the same high.

This is rich… guy is in here advocating for his dealer lmao

They also had a pill press. So very possible they had pure fentanyl and cutting agents prepped and ready to press into pills

Yes it’s 100% possible to use safely. When administered by a doctor in a medical setting. On the street no not safe even when being careful because you don’t know the strength. It’s so widely used by dealers because it’s extremely cheap and easy to order from Chinese chemical distributors. You can buy $20,000 worth and make hundreds of thousands of dollars selling it.

Users don’t care because it gets them really high and keeps the withdrawals away.

It’s toxic and deadly if ingested. But it’s a myth that skin contact can kill you.

It is cheaper and more potent. Using it safely might be a loaded question. You can use it and not die. Would not call that safe though.

> the entirety of any mixture containing a drug is counted as that drug

for sentencing purposes. Laws can't change the physical reality of the world. And the physical reality is that there weren't 100 lbs of fentanyl there, no matter what some law says about how long someone should be thrown in jail for. And the police are absolutely still lying (not misleading) about how much fent there is. It's both not the "legal definition" and not the truth.

>And really, less pure = more profit

lol.

Or just, you know, reality?

> Are you suggesting they track down each granule? Nobody does pure fentanyl. It’s all cut.

Of course they shouldn't track down the grains. I'm saying that at minimum they should have said that they found 100 lbs of powder that contained fentanyl. Saying it's 100 lbs of fentanyl simply is not factually accurate and also intentionally misrepresenting what was seized.

>and the fact that you’re trying to minimize it is pretty disgusting.

Mmmm, yes, that's what I'm doing. Calling out lies means that I must be pro-murder, right? Cool. Got it.

Pressing fake pills that contain fentanyl is also a violent crime against a person.

No, not indefinitely. In a felony trial, you have to have a preliminary hearing early on in the process. The purpose of the preliminary hearing is to determine (by putting on a mini-trial) if there's probable cause to believe the person accused actually did the crime so that you're not holding someone indefinitely. This is determined by a judge, and the defendant has an attorney to challenge the witnesses and evidence presented. Prosecutors need to prove (admittedly to a lower standard than at trial, again, probable cause) every element of the crimes. Typically these are set to occur within like 10 days of being charged, so that people aren't wrongfully held. This is in most states, if not all of them (Louisiana may be an exception, for example).

Now, practically speaking many defendants waive their own rights so that their attorney has more time to prepare, there are sometimes benefits to resolving a case before that hearing, but that's their choice. If they really were held in custody with no evidence, they'd do the hearing ASAP and they'd have their cases dismissed. The thing is, that almost never happens.

you're being a clown. He's obviously not advocating for the dealer or minimizing what the dealer is doing or any other nonsensical phrases you keep spewing, he's just clarifying the facts since it's obviously misleading to say they have "100 lb's of fent". Nobody is defending, advocating for, or minimizing what the dealer is doing. just stop..

If they had 100 lbs of pure fentanyl, the police would have reported that they seized drugs with a $1.3b street value. Yes, that's b, as in billion, as in $1,300,000,000.

They didn't seize 100 lbs of pure fentanyl.

They also didn't adhere to strict lab conditions to assure that each pilll contained the same dose. I am sure some of those pills they pressed had overdose amounts of fentanyl in them. That is a common way for young first time pill poppers to die. These are not addicts selling to manage their own habit. Put them away.

You violently out someone in fear for their lives. You should have had zero bail.

That is terrible! How many people will die and how many lives will be ruined by that horrible drug?

> They also didn't adhere to strict lab conditions to assure that each pilll contained the same dose.

Oh, absolutely. Fentanyl is dangerous and we should harshly punish those who intentionally peddle in it. But we don't have to misrepresent how bad this is by saying there was enough fent there to kill everyone in the state three times over when there wasn't.

Justice comes with accurately representing the facts.

I think the facts are accurately portrayed here. They put a value of 2.2 million on it. 100 lbs of pure fentanyl is worth more than that?

You either used a gun or your lying

When police report the value of drugs, they report the street value, because it is higher. 100 lbs of pure fentanyl is worth over a billion in street value.

so 2.2 mil accurately describes the purity and value.

It probably accurately describes the higher end of the street value, yea. But representing drugs by their street value is like representing a crate of apples as having a value of $1000, because they could be turned into apple pies and sold at Marie Calendars.

These guys had the apples and they had pie crust and they had ovens, so they were definitely planning on turning the apples into apple pies. But there's a lot of work that has to be done between having the raw materials and actually having that much in cash.

Bail generally isn’t to keep people off the streets. It’s to ensure they show up in court, because the criminal process is really slow. When bail has been set, the state hasn’t proved anything, other than that they had probable cause to make an arrest, which is a really low bar. Your position is basically “if the police accuse someone of a violent crime, they should sit in jail indefinitely.”

You have zero understanding of how the bail system is supposed to work. Bail is not to be used as a punishment, the purpose is to help ensure the defendant shows up in court. Yes, the severity of the crime is to be considered, but so are other key factors as well: Previous record (which I did not have), a history of defaulting (which I did not have), and a determination whether an individual is a flight risk (which I wasn’t). I was not in any way trying to justify my actions or downplay the severity of my crime, but rather just shed light on the fact that our cash bail system is wildly inconsistent and caters to those with large amounts of cash at their disposal (i.e. alleged high-level drug traffickers with millions of dollars worth of fentanyl). When all was said and done a judge agreed that my bail had been set far too high and knocked it down to $10k. Still a sum that a homeless drug addict can’t just pull out of their back pocket, but much more fair given the situation. Anyway, I plead out, did my time, made amends, started a business within the recovery field, and have the privilege of being of service and support to individuals who are going through the same difficulties that I once was.

That’s an excessive amount of fentanyl

My point is that the 2.2 number has that data in it. 100 lbs of pure is worth more. The 100 lbs of cut pill product is worth 2.2.

Im surprised they admitted to this on reddit.

I don’t know how many times I’ve had to explain this to people… glad somebody gets it.

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Thank you for the info! Correct me if I'm wrong (genuinely asking here):

In Massachusetts bail is based on the ability and means to pay and the risk of flight, not on the severity of the crime. If the crime is severe enough, they have dangerousness/evidence hearings to determine if bail should be an option or not, correct? If there's risk/threat, they just don't have bail, right? Because bail isn't set up to be a mechanism to hold people and not everyone charged with a violent crime is denied bail, correct?

Basing it off my understanding of reading articles on the SJC ruling a few years ago, and not on any actual legal experience (hence why these are all questions more than statements)

https://www.molarilaw.com/blog/massachusetts-supreme-judicial-court-bail-must-be-affordable-defendants

The internet is not the most compassionate, nor subtle place. Glad to hear you are in long term recovery. Addiction is horrible.

“But it’s a myth that skin contact can kill you..”

Don’t tell that to all of the cops who have “overdosed” from reaching into a suspects pocket and pulled out an open bag. There was a recent study published in the New England Journal of Medicine that basically obliterated the notion that all of these cops were overdosing and the police union clapped back by essentially saying that police would never lie, and therefore the study was just an attempt to downplay the heroic actions of these poor cops. Strange times.

$100,000 is nothing, you should have been given no bail. Scum.

Lol ok bud

Take a snort and tell me the purity then.

So to preface: I am barred (inactive) in Mass, but I don't practice criminal law there so treat this like I'm a layperson. I do practice criminal defense and was a prosecutor in California, and they have a similar rule, so I'll just answer based on the laws there.

That's pretty much correct, at least in CA. The way it works in CA is if bail is set, it must be at a level that's affordable to the individual (ie not set on a schedule sheet) but still be an incentive to return to court. There can be additional requirements for bail like an ankle monitor, but that's not always needed. However, as you mentioned, depending on the severity of the crime, there's a strong possibility that bail will just not be set. Like robbery, for example, which is a violent crime (and counts as a 'strike' for CA sentencing purposes). It's very serious and so the judge may decide that the danger to the community and the risk of flight outweighs the accused's right to bail. They weigh a number of factors, but they're also basing the seriousness on how the DA charged the case, not on a hearing with evidence presented. For example, I have a client right now accused of a very serious crime and was given no bail, but the violent crime he's charged with was done in self-defense, which isn't in the police report or the complaint, so the judge can't really consider it.

So simply put, the judge first determines SHOULD they get bail, and then determines how much based on their income/resources.

Thank you for the info! The last paragraph sums up my layperson's understanding.

Hopefully it won't ever gain first hand experience on this one 😂

And this is why you test presses (or better yet don't take them at all)

Can you provide the lab results or actual weight then please?

I was gonna say, lol. "Holy shit are they planning to kill the entire US population?"

EDIT: Technically I guess it would be a chemical weapon though?

Give them a year in prison for each LB, they can erase a year for every g of fent they consume. Everyone who deals addictive drugs should experience addiction and an overdose, they are the lowest of the low.

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Excellent work by the Police. Cleanup the streets.

Appreciate you!

My grandma is prescribed fentanyl patches for pain, so it does have medical use

I generally support the police. They have tough jobs. But yeah that’s debunked 100%.

Hmmmm

Fuck them, you did your time and I hope you’re doing better. People deserve a second chance, as long as you’re a better person now /u/ShoreNorth9 is the scum, not you

These people should be publicly executed.

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100 pounds?? Isn’t that enough to kill the entire city?

Amazing the cops didn’t instantly drop dead when they were within 5 miles of the fentanyl

Which half?

Fuck off trying to defend drug dealers. They're willingly selling 100 lbs of product they know will possibly kill their buyers and they don't care

Too many people on this subreddit will side with the drug dealers because of "acab"

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Its easy to make. That's literally the main reason its peddled

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The half (or more than half) that think the war on drugs is fucking dumb

Bail is not punitive. All people are innocent until proven guilty in court so they shouldn't be held in jail. Bail is a means to allow them out but with incentive to go to their trial and not flee. They get their bail money back. So bail is mostly set based on flight risk and how much money they have.

The war on drugs is dumb. So is allowing street dealers to possess an amount of fentanyl that can kill an entire population.

Death penalty

Nowhere did I defend drug dealers.

The police gave an estimation of the value the drug dealers had - one pretty lower that the full weight given. Just because you can't do basic math doesn't mean you have to call the people trying to take these murderers off our streets liars

Ahh. So you're just mad I'm criticizing the police. Got it.

Nah mate. You just spreading misinformation hurts everyone

And your position is if the police accuse someone of a violent crime, they should sit in jail indefinitely unless they pay the government a bribe?

First of all, it’s not a payment to the government. It’s returned if you show up to court. Second, bail is an imperfect system and there are better alternatives that work in some circumstances, but it’s certainly better than locking up everyone until trial

The war on drugs is the only reason this situation even exists.

...it's why this shit is happening.

The war on drugs will never be won all while we waste billions a year. Fucking stupid country thinking the war on drugs is worth it and doesn't make it 10x worse

What would you suggest as an alternative to fix the current situation?

What Portugal did in 2001 and the Netherlands and other countries are doing. Legalize all drugs for personnel use Portugal had a massive HIV and overall addict rate. After legalized it dropped significantly compared to the rest of the EU.

All the money that was spent to combat drugs and drug arrests when to rehab progams and they are now the leaders when it comes to getting people healty again.

Imagine billions going to treatment facilities vs tactical gear for police or Jail overhead? It's proven to work and helps lower drug use in general thus it hurts drug dealers.

Building a wall or hiring more police officers will make the issue worse and worse as we see. As no money goes to rehab...

Ask me if I give a fuck. My cousin was killed by some cocksuckers just like these, if it wasn't them. Everyone caught trafficking in fentanyl or carfentanyl should all be charged with felony murder. Someone should run for congress on that platform, they'd win in almost any district in the fucking country at this point. Everybody knows somebody.

I feel like it’s worth way more than 2.25m if they pressed that into pills which is likely what was gonna happen. Pills go for 15-25 each

Portugal decriminalized drug use but dealers and distributors are sent to prison there, contrary to popular opinion. They also don’t tolerate open air drug markets.

I personally don’t hate the idea of legalization. However it’s hard to ignore a state like Oregon and a city like Portland where homelessness and drug use is out of control. Not to mention there are needles everywhere. They have jobs for ppl that are dedicated to just picking up discarded needles that are just left in the street. How do you think seeing that everyday would effect a child or what if they stepped on them ?

If they do, it's because they've lost sight of the forest for the trees and the reason people oppose police in the first place. The dealers cause real harm to communities, and while they might in many ways be symptoms of other failures in society, they are still dangerous ones that need to be dealt with. The "enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing doesn't really play out in most real-world scenarios-

> Some of the drugs, Hayden’s office said, “were found in a children’s bedroom.”

Sometimes I wish it were possible to charge someone with attempted manslaughter.

Indeed. Very few drug users are specifically seeking out fentanyl. It's used as a cheap and potent adulterant that is passed off as more desirable drugs, like prescription opiates, heroin, or even non-opiate type drugs like cocaine. Users are asking for all kinds of drugs and getting fentanyl of variable quantities, either adulterated into or straight up substituted for their intended product, which makes overdosing a real hazard.

Fentanyl adulteration is entirely a black market phenomena.

Don't limit your horizons. I have enough hate in my heart for drug dealers and our worthless pigs

That's not true. Fentanyl reacts with cop DNA to produce a reaction that presents exactly the same as a panic attack and can only be reversed was shooting 6 doses of narcan up the nose.