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GangNailer t1_j28uqj2 wrote

Stock buybacks should be illegal. Maybe then apple would finally invest in newer tech for their phones and fix their texting issues.

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DragoonXNucleon t1_j28wsua wrote

The issue isn't buybacks. The issue is our tax and wealth laws that allow the wealthy to accrue billions. A buyback is just a company spending their own money to buy their own stock, thats it.

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GangNailer t1_j28zyx6 wrote

Buybacks have no value in this economy except to enrich investors. And that is the issue. Instead of investing back into the company, pay raises for employees etc. It goes straight to the top. It is the number one issue. U r talking about.

Stock buybacks should be illegal... Period.

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allnamestaken1968 t1_j29noti wrote

This is also a fundamental misunderstanding of what buybacks do. Do you think dividends enrich investors undeservedly? Same thing.

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allnamestaken1968 t1_j294t84 wrote

And what should they do with the money? They don’t have the management capacity to invest it. The alternative is dividends, which is way less tax optimization for investors (since you have to take it). Buybacks by themselves do not increase share price anyways.

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GangNailer t1_j295bgl wrote

Invest it into the company through living wages for employees, health benefits, r and d, you know... The things companies originally were supposed to do

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Objective-Throat-614 t1_j298wya wrote

You realize how much tech workers make right?

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ssjskipp t1_j29m3fl wrote

Or they could, I don't know, not use oppressed labor to make their products? Why do you think tech is the only place apple can spend their income?

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Objective-Throat-614 t1_j29wwd9 wrote

Sounds like a China problem

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thenikolaka t1_j2a0pey wrote

Isn’t Apple trying to take production out of China though? And isn’t most of the oppressed labor happening in places like Congo where China is operating operating some 90% of the mines extracting materials to build smartphones? Cuz if so that sounds more like an Apple/US Problem in development, once again exploiting Africa to do so.

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Objective-Throat-614 t1_j2a3mb2 wrote

Another “America bad” Reddit npc. So close to making an actual thought before devolving back into braindead takes. China owns and/or funds the DRC cobalt mines. It’s a China problem

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GangNailer t1_j29b6l6 wrote

So workers don't deserve to make money equivalent to the value they produce?

Ur okay letting a rich investors take that money from you? Man stop protecting those in power and punch up for once.

Stop punching down at the workers who actually do the labor in this economy.

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Objective-Throat-614 t1_j29eo4f wrote

You said living wages. Apple software engineers with even a few years of experience make at least $250k lmao

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GangNailer t1_j29g4rx wrote

And the CEO and investors make 400times that amount.

Plus why not pay the frontline workers, customer support, etc. more if ur so butthurt about software engineers making money. Apple has more than just software engineers running it u know?

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Objective-Throat-614 t1_j29ws2i wrote

You’re the one moving the goal posts so you can continue to suck off 1%ers

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GangNailer t1_j2a1c3c wrote

Lmfao... Just try and prove that dumbass statement Of yours.

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Objective-Throat-614 t1_j2a29fr wrote

I did. You’re rattling off le reddit npc phrases like living wages while discussing a class of individuals who make more out of college than you will in your 40s. They don’t need you to fellate them

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GangNailer t1_j2a3u8x wrote

It isn't an npc. Listen to what the people are saying. All the wealth created is made by people at the bottom. Richasshokes would have no money at all if the people at the bottom worked in low wage positions. Real material value is done through labor, not moving money around on screens... This whole system is setup so people like you think you are creating more value than the actual labor of people creating the product or providing their service.

I work with entrepreneurs on a daily basis, and I know just how egotistical and how they live in a non-reality environment.

They think everything they do is all the work needed and they fail unless they hire other experts to take parts of the business over. Businesses are all collaborative efforts, and should be treated like meritcracy. And to say one person deserve 400times more than the actual workers is the most shittiest propganda to fall a victim to.

Material wealth is built on materials and labor, everything else is parsetic and gambling.

Things haven't bean this bad in terms of inequality since... Ever. Even the guided age had better equality. We are at a point where the greedy have fallen vicitem to their own propganda, and don't realize how better the world would be without the 1% and the dick suckers who promote them.

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allnamestaken1968 t1_j29nf2i wrote

This is however not how business works. I am pretty sure Apple Pay’s pretty well. As for r&d, they spent a shitload already. And you don’t want to start another series of conglomerates like we had in the 70s and 80s, when utilities owned malls and rental car companies. That’s not good for anybody. Lastly, you would also have to stop special dividends, which is not not going to happen. Basically buybacks are a good way to return to cash to shareholders to reinvest in other companies.

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GangNailer t1_j29red0 wrote

Explain to me how giving higher wages supports giving conglomerates more power?

I mean how come whenever the little guy gets money people are sooo pissed off. But when we call out the rich people misusing their wealth it's okay, because they "know" how to spend money "better"

I Mena the little guy already gets punched down at. Punch up for God's sake. Shareholders = the wealthy

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allnamestaken1968 t1_j2a6e4k wrote

That’s not what I meant. Sorry. Obviously that would work - but in the end, it’s a market for labor. I am for minimum wage $25 plus inflation - but that wouldn’t change this as nobody at Apple makes that little (well, maybe some janitors, but not enough to change this picture). Companies will be profit/cash flow maximizing under the rules allowed. A cash machine like Apple will always generate more cash than they can reasonably invest in new businesses

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monkeycomet2 t1_j28xr3i wrote

A stock buyback is effectively the same as a dividend. It's just a way to reward investors.

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GangNailer t1_j290ftz wrote

This is the issue, investors are only in it for short term gains. We should make buybacks illegal so they have to be in the company long-term to create more stability in the company and market. Make them play by the same rules as the rest of the world.

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monkeycomet2 t1_j290v4j wrote

What do stock buybacks have to do with short term gains? All a stock buyback does is increase the share price by buying shares at whatever the current share price is.

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GangNailer t1_j2915hd wrote

You're incentivizing investors to sell during buy backs, as the price is being pumped up.

If the crypto scene has taught u, No one should trust investors to hold their positions when they have inside information like this

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monkeycomet2 t1_j291dm2 wrote

Just cause the share price goes up doesn't mean it's time to sell lol.

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GangNailer t1_j292f2z wrote

Right, and your going to put all your trust in investors to keep the stock long-term because of their "genius" iq and "conservative strategies" .

Sorry but I am skeptical af and no longer have any respect nor trust for investors at that level.

I'm tired of giving control of companies and their fate to investors like this. It's about time companies are trated like the real economic engine they should be, jobs, taxes and creating value. Instead of playing with them like financial tools to enrich the already wealthy.

The idea of buy backs is completly benefitting one class of people, and the only way we can finally have fair distribution of wealth is to stop this tactic that only the lucky few are able to benefit from.

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monkeycomet2 t1_j293gjf wrote

I'm not 100% sure, but a lot of people probably own AAPL as a part of the S&P 500 as an ETF or pensions fund or something. Also they're financial tools that everyone can use. It just so happens that the wealthiest people in society are the ones that use them. I'm not saying that everyone has equal opportunity or access to them, but there's really nothing stopping people from investing outside of a lack of capital which is easily solved using ETFs or even a margin account for the less risk averse.

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GangNailer t1_j294lm2 wrote

Lol "nothing stopping people".

That is the difference between our perspective. There are so many barriers for working class folks to invest in stocks, it makes no sense to trust these whales at the tops to trickle down their wealth to the rest.

What, like the average 401k has like 5dollars of applstock in it.. Lol come-on! Buying back stocks in appl will be a blip for the average investor.

Reagnomics doesn't work, and your idealogy fails to bring in the real dynamics of how the stock market works. Again, buybacks are just another tool that only make a real difference if you area full-time investor with wealth spewing out of your wallet.

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jeekiii t1_j2957tk wrote

What are you talking about. I have 50k total saved and I own apple stocks through index funds. It's not hard to get into the stock market.

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GangNailer t1_j297x1e wrote

It is if you don't have 50k bro... The stock market is for people who have money. Other folks like me have to spend what I get in paychecks on things that keep me and my family alive

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monkeycomet2 t1_j2959zm wrote

You're just assuming that I subscribe to trickle down economics, which I don't btw. I would support an initiative for the government to invest some money for each high school student so that they have some wealth to start out. All I'm trying to point out is that stock buybacks are not the enemy you are making them out to be. They are nearly identical to dividends in their effect. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it evil.

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GangNailer t1_j2965p4 wrote

I do understand it and I am pointing it out as peak wealth redistribution. It takes all the hard earned labor and value the employees at the company made, and gives it to investors who spend 4times a year advising managment.

It's utterly dispicable and financializes companies into money printing machines. Thus giving management reasons to outsource and costcut and destroy the US economy further.

Ps, I really am getting tired of your strawmanning here, bringing up different points that have nothing to do with my comments. If u want to support buy backs In a public forum, be my guest. I am with the few with a business and financial education of who see the real reason they exist and how they are used. And your pro position is not going to change that truth, no matter how you try to explain the benefits of them.

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