Submitted by mamawoman t3_1264vgh in explainlikeimfive
Comments
AnAquaticOwl t1_je7o7ts wrote
Okay...and what can China do with the data collected from the average user?
152centimetres t1_je7pa59 wrote
one of the things tiktok can do is track your phone's keystrokes on other apps so theoretically they can get your banking password, passwords to all your other apps, and any other sensitive info, which you generally dont want other people to have
BlurryBigfoot74 t1_je7rhqo wrote
And they can target citizens from different countries with different suggestions.
Apparently Chinese tik tok is very educational.
Here in Canada, before I trained my algorithm, I saw a lot of boobs and political vids on a fresh account. Lots of young people dancing. Very mindless stuff.
The internet can be a tool of positive change if owners took a more active role against misinformation . America had the market cornered with Facebook, Twitter and snapchat. China knows what westerners want to see. If garbage is what you demand, garbage is what you get.
tyler1128 t1_je7lqh5 wrote
So, I'll take this both ways. TikTok's parent company is in China, which the government has near absolute control of any company. In that way it is reasonable to assume any company in China can at least become a state actor at any point.
The other way is that, while it is probably reasonable for them and really any social media company at all to not be in government and/or private company devices that have access to private information, a bunch of kids TikTok with their personal phones really aren't giving China even in the worst case all that much more data than basic surveillance would.
GingerJacob36 t1_je7oi7k wrote
There's a bit more to it than that.
One of the high ranking members of TikTok's parent company, I think called ByteDance, is a sitting member of the CCP. TikTok CEO says that this person is only dealing with the Chinese side of the business, but that's a potential area of influence from the Chinese government.
Also, it has been suggested that the app itself is not just collecting data, but also an attempt to subvert American youth in a variety of ways. The algorithm that runs the app in America is very different from the one in China. One notable way is that the app in China, called Douyin, requires anyone under 14 to register as a youth, and it limits their access to 40 minutes per day between 6am and 10pm. They also receive mandatory pauses every 5 minutes, and are shown only "inspiring content" from fields like math and science. Compare that to American teen usage which is mainly sexual dances and NyQuil chicken.
This can become a chicken or the egg kind of conversation, where it's not China's fault that American teens are idiots and pursue this kind of stuff, but it is a bit suspicious that they limit usage for their own but not for us. Whether or not that means that it is an intentionally insidious attack against America is debatable.
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despitegirls t1_je7w1ka wrote
TikTok, as far as we know it, isn't a problem any more than any other social media app, more or less.
The problem is our relationship with China. While our countries aren't at war (at least traditionally) with one another, the relationship is antagonistic. We simply don't trust each other. I can't speak on the why for China, but on the US end, China doesn't respect intellectual property laws and has outright stolen tech from North American companies like Nortel and GE among hundreds of others. Add to that the various misinformation campaigns China has used to attack the US and other countries, along with the fact that they've supported Russia and North Korea, have hacked network infrastructure in the US, and you have a very negative picture of China when it comes to US national security.
And it's through that lens that something like TikTok, which has been used by US soldiers who are deployed, and government employees while on the job, and teens and everyone else, is seen under a different light. Through that lens, if you're FBI/CIA/NSA, you realize that it would possible for a silly video taken at a military base to geotag the location, and the video itself to be able to be combined with other videos to map out that location. Or how silly video challenges could slowly erode social norms. Or how videos posted to TikTok of say the recent hearing could frame questions in a way that doesn't show the fuller context. The kicker is that the CCP could get all of this data if they wanted.
I'm sure there's some good ol' fashioned xenophobia tossed in there. And the thing is, the US runs some of it's own https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/how-hollywood-became-the-unofficial-propaganda-arm-of-the-u-s-military-1.5560575 propoganda on us. I'll take US propoganda over China's as ours isn't intent on destabilization. Even though I think a full ban is probably pointless and RESTRICT Act is probably the new PATRIOT Act (need time to read fully), the fact that there are so many who are vehemently pro-TikTok without thinking critically is partial proof their influence is working imo.
Be open to hearing opposing viewpoints and seek out many sources for important stories. You may not agree with the other side, but you'll understand their position, and likely get a fuller understanding of any given situation.
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jnemesh t1_je7okdl wrote
Answer: TikTok is a company that is owned, at least in part, by the Chinese government. They are known to collect TONS of data from users, including location data, and that data is sent back to servers IN CHINA. While the company has tried to deflect and say they are perfectly innocent, there is no real reason to believe that user data harvested by the company isn't being diverted to other, more nefarious purposes, by the Chinese Communist Party and it's spy agencies. Remedies such as relocating the servers to the US where access can be monitored and controlled has been met with resistance, and there are indications that the NSA or CIA or other agencies have found them to be a security risk.
skylercollins t1_je7rlqu wrote
It's not.
It's all a ruse for the federal government to steal more power over our ability to privately communicate with one another.
It's what states do, lie to its subjects in order to get or maintain its power of economic plunder.
MechanicalBot1234 t1_je7zcn2 wrote
I work in content personaliation engines. If one had control over your data and provide recommendations on what you watch, they can brainwash you to do whatever they want.
They can make you a porn addict. Or a Jehovah's witness.
They can make you take the side they choose in any topic.
They can manipulate you on who you vote.
Our own governments have been doing this for 50 plus years, but now Tick Tok allows the control to cross international boundaries.
By the Way, China doesn't allow their data to get out of China either
skylercollins t1_je8duu1 wrote
We should definitely do as the authoritarian communist China does
🙄
me_at_myhouse t1_je7vixe wrote
Because a news story can spread on TikTok and the US govt cannot censor or stop the story.
Facebook will censor / kill a story at US govt. request.
Everything else you hear is a smokescreen to deflect from this.
-domi- t1_je7n9jc wrote
Some people think it's very bad that a foreign government can just request Tiktok's data there gathering on their users, and they just have to comply. They're okay with the US government doing it with insta, snapchat, Facebook, etc, however. And they're okay with those US companies selling that data on an open market indiscriminately, even if the buyer is a company affiliated with the Chinese government.
So, uh, all those companies are security risks, because they all monitor personal data invasively, and handle it poorly. People are mostly mad at Tiktok, cause it's Chinese.
ArenSteele t1_je7t2ex wrote
Well, and the fact that China used is part ownership of Zoom to snoop into all kinds of peoples meetings to identify people who supported Hong Kong democracy protests and attempt to extradite and imprison them
So they will absolutely use Tik Tok for hostile means
And yes we need to crack down on domestics data abuses as well
Ground2ChairMissile t1_je7lihl wrote
It isn't. Not really, especially since most government employees are now barred from using it.
Trying to ban it outright is a symptom of pretty obvious xenophobia, and politicians looking for some kind of victory to claim without actually accomplishing anything.
It's possible that TikTok being owned by a Chinese company with ties to the state means that they have a means of getting user information. But if you're so important that your personal data is worth discovering, especially on the state level, there's no way you can protect it from every vector, from silly little video apps to your bank and investment accounts to the discount card at your grocery store.
There IS a danger of TikTok being used to deliberately spread misinformation. But again, if someone with the resources of an entire country wants to do that, they have plenty of options to accomplish it, none of which require backdoor access to a social media app. Merely spreading a few posts on Twitter or getting a sensationalist headline on Fox News will accomplish far more, and it's essentially free.
States are already engaging in these disinformation campaigns. Playing whack-a-mole with individual apps will not stop them.
dontautotuneme t1_je7mlri wrote
Ground2ChairMissile t1_je7myp6 wrote
Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc. and dozens of other companies all collect the same data. If China wants to spy on you, they're already spying on you.
But you, random Reddit poster, are very literally not worth their time.
jnemesh t1_je7o7bo wrote
Depends on who you are. If you in the military, they might want to know your movements, where you go to work, where you live, how often you go to a particular place, what networks your phone connects to, what your bank balance is, etc...
Even what we would consider "inconsequential" data, in the wrong hands, can be used to devastating effect! It might also let them know who might be vulnerable to being compromised.
Let's say, as an example, you worked in a top secret facility developing software for the new F-35 fighters. Let's also say that you were in an extra-marital affair with someone. You had better believe that foreign agents who learn of this would use it to try to blackmail you...this literally happens ALL OF THE TIME.
Just because YOU, PERSONALLY aren't aware of what is going on doesn't mean the US Government is also ignorant. There may be knowledge that the CIA or NSA picked up on that indicates that Tik Tok is a security threat.
Ground2ChairMissile t1_je7oihn wrote
>Depends on who you are. If you in the military,
Uh huh. Which is why I said:
> especially since most government employees are now barred from using it.
Next...
>Just because YOU, PERSONALLY aren't aware of what is going on doesn't mean the US Government is also ignorant. There may be knowledge that the CIA or NSA picked up on that indicates that Tik Tok is a security threat.
If they had that information, they'd have already shut down the app with existing anti-espionage laws.
Congress banning it legislatively is a performance, nothing more.
jnemesh t1_jea8ap0 wrote
Not true at all. The government doesn't always telegraph what it knows or how it knows it...and they ARE working on legislation to enact a total ban.
Ground2ChairMissile t1_jea8lyq wrote
> and they ARE working on legislation to enact a total ban.
Walk yourself through it. C'mon, what comes after that...
Got it yet?
Need some help?
Here it is:
...because they can't accomplish it with current anti-espionage laws.
Because federal law enforcement agencies can't find anything the app does that's against the law.
dontautotuneme t1_je7nmj5 wrote
Your evidence of Tik Tok not spying on anyone is: other social media is? You sound like someone who is employed by Bytedance.
Ground2ChairMissile t1_je7nuh1 wrote
I didn't say TikTok isn't spying on you.
I said that if China wants to spy on you, it will, and it doesn't need a video app to do it.
And that you are not that important.
>You sound like someone who is employed by Bytedance.
You are the definition of paranoid.
ToxiClay t1_je7rkjw wrote
> But you, random Reddit poster, are very literally not worth their time.
Individually, no. None of us are.
But we're not talking individuals; we're talking about broad access to all sorts of data, unimaginable data.
>Trying to ban it outright is a symptom of pretty obvious xenophobia,
Nope. It would be xenophobia if we were looking to ban anything outside of our shores, but we're not -- we're very specifically targeting a certain set of foreign entities who are demonstrably against American interests.
Ground2ChairMissile t1_je7thn6 wrote
"Unimaginable" is a weasel word. If you can't enumerate a specific threat, then say so.
ToxiClay t1_je7tvq3 wrote
No, because you're going to take that and pooh-pooh anything anyone tries to say.
The threat isn't specifically enumerable because the threat space is that large.
Ground2ChairMissile t1_je7uh4i wrote
Like I said, weasel word.
I already laid out specific threats. And why a video app isn't necessary to exploit them.
But if you're so desperate to believe that Congress is actually accomplishing something, while we drown in medical debt and wait for our next scheduled mass shooting, so be it.
ToxiClay t1_je7utgr wrote
> Like I said, weasel word.
Like I said, no.
>I already laid out specific threats. And why a video app isn't necessary to exploit them.
And what about all the other data China is picking up? Or the money that China is making from TikTok?
>...wait for our next scheduled mass shooting...
Oh, come on. Don't try to pivot to that fucking chestnut.
Ground2ChairMissile t1_je7vc5r wrote
Lie to yourself all you want. I don't have to indulge your delusion.
Who is more likely to actually hurt you, the terrible Red Communist menace, or the nutjob who bought a gun with no trouble and decided he needed to rob a 7-11 for his next fix?
And which of these problems is Congress more interested in actually fixing?
ToxiClay t1_je7zql8 wrote
> Lie to yourself all you want. I don't have to indulge your delusion.
Fortunately, I'm not lying, and there's no "delusion" you have to indulge.
>Who is more likely to actually hurt you, the terrible Red Communist menace, or the nutjob who bought a gun with no trouble and decided he needed to rob a 7-11 for his next fix?
Let me guess: your solution lines up roughly with what's coming out of the Democrat thoughtspace.
>And which of these problems is Congress more interested in actually fixing?
The deadlock is because Democrats don't actually want to "solve a problem," and they get pushback on it, as they rightfully should.
Ground2ChairMissile t1_je80dqz wrote
Delusional people are often unaware that they're deluded. For example, you'd have to be pretty fucking stupid to be manipulated by a bunch of jingoist politicians taking straight from the McCarthy playbook, just two days after our latest all-American homegrown slaughter.
A slaughter that doesn't happen in civilized countries.
New century, same dumbasses.
ToxiClay t1_je80i1j wrote
> Delusional people are often unaware that they're deluded.
People who aren't delusional are also often unaware that they're deluded.
>For example, you'd have to be pretty fucking stupid to be manipulated by a bunch of jingoist politicians taking straight from the McCarthy playbook, just two days after our latest all-American homegrown slaughter.
Damn, then it's a good thing I'm not being manipulated in such a way, isn't it?
Listen, if you want to talk guns, I'm game, but calling me deluded and stupid isn't a good opener.
Nor is implying that America is somehow "uncivilized" for not doing things like banning "assault weapons" and "high-capacity magazines" and whatnot.
Ground2ChairMissile t1_je80zp2 wrote
You're the one listening to the same politicians who've literally told you they won't solve any problems.
And yet you think they'll protect you from the big, bad, foreign boogeyman.
I'm tempted to say something like "you can't possibly be that stupid," but clearly you can. How unsurprising it is to find that you're also a gun nut.
ToxiClay t1_je834ve wrote
> I'm tempted to say something like "you can't possibly be that stupid," but clearly you can.
Again, a terrible opener if you're actually looking to have a discussion.
>How unsurprising it is to find that you're also a gun nut.
I'm not, unless you're really reaching with your definitions. How do you define "gun nut" for the purpose of casually dismissing people?
>You're the one listening to the same politicians who've literally told you they won't solve any problems.
And yet you want them to solve gun violence.
Ground2ChairMissile t1_je83o1d wrote
>if you're looking to have a discussion.
That presumes that I'm talking to a rational person. On that note...
>How do you define "gun nut" for the purpose of casually dismissing people?
Great question, shockingly! A gun nut is someone who values their own guns and/or access to guns above the lives of other people.
I've answered your question. Now you answer mine. How many school shootings has, say, Canada had this week?
Several gun nuts have outright refused to even consider this question. Let's see if you can do better.
ToxiClay t1_je84e03 wrote
> That presumes that I'm talking to a rational person
You are, and because I'm so rational, I'm concluding that you're not actually interested in having a conversation, but instead punching down. This is evidenced by, among other things, your use of "shockingly" in your next sentence -- and your over-broad definition of "gun nut."
By your definition, to not be a "gun nut," one should want guns banned outright. That'd make a lot more people "gun nuts" than are actually warranted.
Now that I've actually had a chance to briefly experience you, I'm not actually sure I want to have a discussion with you if this is the kind of person you are, and how you interact with people.
Can you tell me I'm wrong?
Ground2ChairMissile t1_je84r5m wrote
>By your definition, to not be a "gun nut," one should want guns banned outright.
Point to where I said "in order to not be a gun nut, one should want to ban guns outright."
Bet you can't. It'd be an awfully hypocritical thing to say, since I own guns myself.
>Several gun nuts have outright refused to even consider this question.
The streak continues.
>Can you tell me I'm wrong?
You still haven't answered my last question.
bisonpoonslayer t1_je7lpgz wrote
The Chinese government can ask any Chinese company to look at every facet of their business and they have to comply. Since TikTok is Chinese there are worries that the Chinese government will have access to all the data collected by the app.