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chrisdh79 OP t1_ivfd3a0 wrote

From the article: The NightWare system uses “the Apple Watch heart rate sensor, accelerometer, and gyroscope to detect a nightmare and then disrupt it through haptic feedback, generating gentle pulses on the wrist that gradually increase until the user is roused from the nightmare, but not from sleep,” Apple says. It’s also the only FDA-approved digital therapeutic for treating nightmares.

NightWare has already been prescribed to 400 patients in the United States, according to Apple. Almost all of the patients are active-duty military or veterans.

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Tyrilean t1_ivir9ku wrote

I wonder why an app requires a prescription. I can’t see a downside to letting anyone have this. Veterans aren’t the only ones with nightmares.

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_softlite t1_iviyrqv wrote

It's not just an app, it's a watch and phone with software pre-installed, and the bundle is designated as a Class II Medical Device by the FDA. I can only assume there's a lot more money in medical devices than IAPs, at least in the US, and to maintain their class they have to require a prescription.

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Tyrilean t1_ivki7rz wrote

I get that, but it’s not a special medical phone and watch. It’s an iPhone and an Apple Watch. Which I’m currently holding/wearing. The app is the special sauce, and that’s what’s being withheld.

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_softlite t1_ivm9x7v wrote

I didn’t mean to make it sound like the hardware was specialized, only that it’s not a prescription for software but rather an entire “medical device.” Existing as a physical object is probably a requirement for their product to qualify as a “Class II medical device,” which then allows them to sell the package for an insanely high price—even if the physical component is just off-the-shelf tech. And while I can see how you might think this is them “withholding” the product, in the sense that it’s not freely available, it isn’t completely inaccessible—at least, not for the people who need it.

A less cynical reason for their strategy might be that the project received funding specifically for the development of a breakthrough medical device. That funding may have included limitations on what they could do with the result of that development, including limitations that prevent them from either selling it directly to the public or from commercial profit (I.e., profit from a source of payment that doesn’t qualify as a medical expense).

There are a lot of medical devices/other types of objects that require a prescription for no particular reason. My doctor once prescribed me a sandal, which was in every way the same as something I could have bought for $5 except it was a medical-ish pale green and 20x the price.

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3d_extra t1_ivo8f4k wrote

I think it is way simpler than that. They can't have doctors systematically recommend to buy apple watches because there is some app on there. If it is FDA approved then it might become possible to have it as a reimbursable for vets. Apple probably saw that there are a lot of vets without Apple watches and an unmet need. More sales for Apple and perhaps some benefits for vets.

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M365Certified t1_iwmdafq wrote

Its the reimbursable part.

The VA will pay for a Medical Device. If its just an App, then the VA will pay for just the App and the Vet is stuck buying an App, which even a $250 SE watch can be a lot for a Vet struggling with employment due to PTSD.

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Jorycle t1_ivjbsu6 wrote

True, but that's still basically just an app, since they're not adding anything new to either the phone or the watch. Seems like a weird money making scheme to me - and money for Apple, since they can petition for even more goofy "Apple watch saved my friend's dog's uncle" ads/articles.

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Kako0404 t1_ivjyeul wrote

So yes on one hand being FDA approved means they can charge more for the subscription. On the other hand it opens the door for insurance coverage for users.

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DoneisDone45 t1_ivj2vmq wrote

this application is so obvious that i cant believe they never made a device like it before.

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mishap1 t1_ivffhci wrote

So you just have to get a second watch to monitor you at night while you're primary is charging.

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Not_as_witty_as_u t1_ivfmp30 wrote

Not that you would, but a $300 solution to PTSD from war zones is pretty good value even if you had to do that, no? Can you just not help yourself from being cynical?

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Modsda3 t1_ivgg1na wrote

For real. I've had cptsd from combat for 10 years now. Woke up disoriented and completely drenched in sweat and absolutely drained just last night. This tech could be a game changer for me.

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deepseadinko t1_ivim946 wrote

If you do succeed in getting this I would love to hear a follow-up sometime down the road.

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mishap1 t1_ivfo1v8 wrote

If it works, it's a dirt cheap solution. Not criticizing the innovation. The commentary is on Apple's lack of focus on increasing battery life on these. I've gone to the Ultra as my 4th iteration but I could routinely run my last gen to reserve power in the course of a day and anything but near religious charging discipline means a dead watch.

Few things are more frustrating than having a watch crap out mid-day because you forgot to charge. Other brands have watches that last longer and have the same sensors so I don't exactly see where this is an Apple unique feature. It's just a bit of PR fluff unless there's a patent on it here. I say this as a very long time AAPL shareholder.

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Not_as_witty_as_u t1_ivfrhly wrote

>Apple's lack of focus on increasing battery life on these

Yeah because surely they're not trying to improve that...

I don't know what to tell you but I sleep with mine on and charge while showering/getting ready for the day and I'm good.

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Mg2836 t1_ivha1sv wrote

I mean whats the competition….

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mishap1 t1_ivfuaeq wrote

They reached a good enough point of 18 hours and spent any other gains in cutting costs. Same with their phones.

I get the expectation that people are always near chargers and I always carry a charger. That said, my 6 would be deep into reserve power before I get back to a charger probably once a week especially if I did any exercise in the day. It'd never last to the morning if I ever wore it without a solid charge.

Perhaps I am just too much of a power user or I don't sleep enough but the margin of error on the base watches doesn't seem sufficient for medical use.

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Tball2 t1_ivijt2y wrote

Then why did you buy 4 iterations. Buy one of the alternatives if they have the same sensors and have the battery life you crave so badly

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therealpigman t1_ivfilz4 wrote

Charging while I shower each day is usually enough to last day and night

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thoughts_and_prayers t1_ivfho8f wrote

I always keep my Apple Watch on during the night. Typically just need to charge it while I’m getting ready for the day and sleep and I’m usually all charged up.

The fast charging functionality that they added a couple releases ago solved most of the charging issues.

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evilohm t1_ivfn52o wrote

you can charge it an hour before bedtime or while you're idle sometime in the day.

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jordanundead t1_ivft3u6 wrote

I have my bedtime set so it tells me exactly when I need to charge to have 100% battery by bedtime.

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killer_by_design t1_ivhb0rz wrote

I can't even begin to describe to you how wide ranging and difficult living with PTSD is.

Please delete your comment. I know it's an off hand glib "haha apple dumb" kind of comment but the idea that for $300 my partner could avoid a PTSD episode is money I would spend a hundred times over.

Please consider deleting your comment.

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tooold4urcrap t1_ivghnki wrote

My watch never needs to be charged at night tho so I’m not sure what you’re asking.

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TheDyingAdventure t1_ivi2hjr wrote

Sometimes I charge mine while I brush my teeth and wash my face. It charges to 100 percent battery pretty fast.

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Shepard_P t1_iviqglq wrote

You must have not used a new one. They charge super fast.

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rdicky58 t1_ivi7o7y wrote

Not necessarily, I use sleep monitoring on mine and I just have to remember to throw it on the charger a couple hours before bedtime. If I forget it’ll still track through the night, I’ll just have to charge it the next morning. Still lasts me the whole day.

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Tyrilean t1_ivir6mc wrote

I wear my watch at night. Toss it on the charger in the morning while I do my morning routine, and it’s topped up by then.

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SatanLifeProTips t1_ivgsgnf wrote

For all the ahole downvotes, the guy isn’t wrong. Apple needs to get off it’s ass and improve the battery life drastically.

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PiXLANIMATIONS t1_ivh6ifo wrote

It’s basically an iPhone which monitors more than your iPhone does passively, and most of them have Always On Displays. The fact that such a tiny, complicated device lasts as long as it does is a testament to Apple’s design and hardware team.

All it takes is about half an hour on charge and it’ll last me 24/30 hours. That means I can wear it to bed, to work and for the rest of the day, whack it on to charge while I do my night routine and stick it back on before bed, rinse and repeat

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mzchen t1_ivi9kvo wrote

Because it's irrelevant to the article. Also, having to recharge a small device after it spends 8 hours monitoring your body so that you can use it for daily necessities isn't... that bad?

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Murderyoga t1_ivfg8km wrote

I wonder when it will be available to the public. I've never been to war but have frequent night terrors.

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Uharugger t1_ivi69z6 wrote

Yeah, I could definitely benefit from this. Some nights I wake up exhausted from my dreams.

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JulietAlfa t1_iviggjd wrote

I’d really like this also. I have some type of sleeping disorder, strange sometimes lucid dreams. I also wake with a racing heartbeat. I suspect my sleep quality is horrible.

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Saotik t1_ivj6rc7 wrote

When I wake up with a racing heart I sometimes wonder to what extent the dream caused an elevated heart rate and to what extent the elevated heart rate inspired the dream.

I had atrial fibrillation, and since having an ablation and starting beta blockers I hardly ever have dreams or nightmares where I'm running any more.

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imetators t1_ivh23y5 wrote

Man. 4th ad for the past 10 days. Apple marketing team must be working 25 hours a day.

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MrFluffyhead80 t1_ivi52st wrote

Where do you see it’s an ad?

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Matt32490 t1_iviu4qe wrote

Probably because there's a sudden top thread wave of apple products on this sub just in time for Christmas.

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MrFluffyhead80 t1_ivjha9f wrote

Ok, there will always be articles about Apple products, especially on this domain, my question is where do you see it’s an ad?

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imetators t1_ivj1vlo wrote

I have joined r/gadgets a long ass time ago and it usually had variety of gadget news posted here. For the past 2 weeks or so there's a sudden boom of articles about Apple and their technology saving people's lives. Sometimes they say that their product saved someone's live in the title but in the article it barely helped if helped at all yet the title grabs your attention. In cases when people just read the title (let's face it, it happens more than we want to admit) they will swallow fake information with ease.

And as many others stated here, these posts started to pop up at a perfect time right before Christmas shopping season. Makes us think that it was all planned.

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MrFluffyhead80 t1_ivjh72r wrote

Ok, you didn’t answer the question

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imetators t1_ivkmjsy wrote

I did. It appears to us it flew over your head.

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MrFluffyhead80 t1_ivkn4j6 wrote

You actually just stated that the most popular tech company has a bunch of articles on the gadgets subreddit. At best you thought of a conspiracy

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imetators t1_ivkss18 wrote

You are right. It doesn't specifically state that this is in fact an ad. That is true. But it is kind of the same as if you see a popular brand in a movie. Not an actual ad, but has the same purpose.

Me, and a few people in comment section, just noticed that on this sub there's a sudden flow of appraisal for Apple products. After a 4th (I've seen only 4 so far) post in a short period of time it becomes a bit suspicious, don't you think? Considering the whole time of existence of Apple Watch, it is suspicious to me.

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MrFluffyhead80 t1_ivkv0e0 wrote

So they paid for product placement in an ad like company’s do for movies? I won’t hold my breath for you to provide no proof on that conspiracy also!

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eatingganesha t1_ivfpkno wrote

When’s it gonna get to the rest of us? Veterans aren’t the only group that suffer with PTSD.

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jordanundead t1_ivftdds wrote

The article says it’s by prescription and most but not all current users are active or former military. Ask your doctor.

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fuglyfoot t1_ivfy3zo wrote

Is this the first app that requires a prescription?

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jordanundead t1_ivfyfep wrote

apparently prescription only apps have been a thing for a while now.

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fuglyfoot t1_ivfyz7z wrote

Let’s hope none of these apps get into the hands of some unprescribed people who will just abuse it… thank you for the article btw.

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jimmytwolegsjohnny t1_ivhgn6v wrote

I can't tell if sarcasm or not...how would people abuse a diabetes support app, or a night terror support app?

Im just dumb and you were being sarcastic though. Probably. I hope

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fuglyfoot t1_ivhgu4m wrote

I was being sarcastic, I don’t understand how an app could be medically abused.

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RiceAlicorn t1_ivj1tar wrote

Prescriptions aren't only for addressing medical abuse of patients — they're also for addressing the medical abuse of practitioners.

Imagine if I were some Dr. Oz quack. If I really wanted to, I could make a PTSD app right now and release it on the app market. Doesn't matter if it actually works. I'd have to avoid representing myself or my product as a legally qualified medical practitioner, but I could use one of the many non-legally protected "medical" titles and trick people into thinking I'm a doctor and purchasing my app.

An prescription app with FDA approval is significantly different from the quackery above. FDA approval/prescription status gives an app legitimacy. In order to get FDA approval, the app needs to undergo rigorous testing and analysis to prove that it is safe and effective when used as instructed for its intended use. Having it locked behind prescriptions also lends it legitimacy, because it means that only licensed medical professionals are allowed to distribute it. Another point is that doctors can better instruct patients on effective usage of the app as well as adjust patient medical care with this app in mind, as prescription-level things tend to come with a lot of accompanying medical literature useful for understanding them.

Those are the two good reasons: apps being granted prescription-status/FDA approval separates them from BS apps, and having the apps prescribed by doctors allows doctors to instruct patients and tweak it to better fit patient care.

Of course, there's also the third bad reason... capitalism. Getting anything FDA approval takes a ton of time and money, and at bare minimum companies need to recoup the cost. Beyond that, companies also wanna make a shit ton of money and bleed the populace dry. The market for prescription apps is in its growing stage right now, there's little to no competition, and no government-mandated price regulation. These are the perfect conditions for companies to form monopolies and mark up their prescription apps exorbitantly, forcing people to buy their products because no alternatives exist.

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Tyrilean t1_ivirem9 wrote

Wouldn’t want anyone ODing on apps.

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antiquemule t1_ivgibqx wrote

I imagine a low cost open source version would not be too difficult to create. Not that I'm offering.

Here is the story of the guy who invented it.

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Baremegigjen t1_ivitdh9 wrote

Vets were the primary test subjects, probably due to the availability of medical records and well studied cause of their PTSD. I read about this more than a year ago but it was still in the test phase so it’s great to see it’s being used more widely. Hopefully more patients who could benefit from it from across society can get access.

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tomistruth t1_ivfqkho wrote

Man Apple is freaking out because nobody buys their Watch Ultra. Those PR posts are damn annoying.

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656666_ t1_ivghs0h wrote

„Nobody“, except the majority of people.

Leading smartwatch vendor: Apple

Apple's smartwatch unit shipment share worldwide Q1 2022 36%

Quarterly smartwatch unit shipment share worldwide from 2018 to 2022, by vendor: https://www.statista.com/statistics/910862/worldwide-smartwatch-shipment-market-share/

Edit: all the downvotes from the apple haters that don’t like facts and statistics :)

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DearChoice t1_ivgngwu wrote

They may be leading in selling smart watches but you're not taking into consideration how many even own a smart watch. I only know one single person who had a smart watch (Apple) and she regretted buying it as it served no purpose at all.

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656666_ t1_ivguwyt wrote

I think you underestimate smartwatches.

> Now, as of today, Apple sells more watches than the entire Swiss watch industry. The gap widened in 2019 to 30.7M vs. 21.1M. That's the number of watches sold.

>Swiss watches are more expensive, certainly- but Apple watch sales for 2020 were $30.6B. The Swiss watch industry's total exports were $15B.

Also my comment was about the comment before, the guy who said apple don’t sell enough.

they perform top on the market and sell the most.

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JoeHerer t1_ivimx5o wrote

I think they specifically meant the Apple Watch Ultra.

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656666_ t1_iviwnc5 wrote

Ah okay, fair enough. I thought in general cause that’s what the article about.

I’m haben am Apple Watch as well, but dam it, over 1000$ for the ultra is just a joke.

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smi3tana t1_ivguttw wrote

oh ffs. Apple ad strategy never changes. Just last week they tried to pin an undying, tenacious woman's achievement to a watch that did literally nothing to help her stay alive.

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The__Aphelion t1_ivhw7e8 wrote

I seriously wanna get a prescription for this. This would help me so freaking much…

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isuamadog t1_ivhb1l8 wrote

I want the app that will wake me up from this life.

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JaxiiRuff t1_ivi3n7q wrote

Im tired of this fucking subreddit and its constant botted Apple Watch posts and articles. What a subtle advertising strategy.

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lemlurker t1_ivfnznn wrote

Oh duck off apple watch. Quit carpet bombing

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ShaolinTrapLord t1_ivhsb5x wrote

Can they make a app where the VA unfucks itself?

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doom1282 t1_ivippc0 wrote

I love how it's always a post about Apple Watches like other smartwatches don't exist with the same capabilities. Nothing against the tech itself I just think it's funny how all the articles are "Apple watch saves someone" and never "Galaxy Watch/FitBit/insert watch brand here saves someone."

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rakkoma t1_ivimi0l wrote

Vets and active service members aren’t the only people who get ptsd and it’s really dogshit that its almost exclusively framed that way.

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happygodavid t1_iviqv4i wrote

I have PTSD from my experiences in an abusive cult. I wish I had this app for the first two years after I left. I’d wake up gasping, sometimes screaming over the nightmares from my trauma and abuse there. I’m glad this exists and hope it helps a lot of people.

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the_jungle_awaits t1_ivir063 wrote

Would love this, but I hate wearing things while I sleep.

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_CodyB t1_ivizg6c wrote

Anyone else getting sick to death of the apple watch circlejetk on this sub?

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worldslastusername t1_ivj361y wrote

This could really help people. Nighttime flashbacks really fuck with my sleep. I’m medicated to the point where I don’t just wake up screaming every night, but I still have a really challenging time during the night. I’ve messaged to ask if it’ll be available in England at any point.

I know Apple might have been all over this subreddit, looking at other comments, but this could really help people. As a software engineer, Apple do seem to be a cut above with their functionality, I don’t find it unreasonable that their watch might be considered more reliable or have broader functionality than other similar watches. For medical devices, reliability is paramount, smaller companies may not have APIs to work with or may be less available, or less consistent in their production.

And if Apple aren’t better and want to use their clout to get an item prescribed which could really do some good, I don’t think that’s terrible. It takes a lot of resources to get a device through clinical trials.

Tldr: I’m excited about this product.

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backjox t1_ivjacvx wrote

Can't every smartwatch do this?

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Ninjake56 t1_ivj0idy wrote

You know, I was actually considering getting an Apple Watch these past few month. But after seeing these obvious poor attempts at propaganda I think I’ll pass. It’s so obvious what apple is trying to do before the Christmas season and I’m not falling for that shit.

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Jorycle t1_ivjbhmx wrote

My takeaway from this is that there's a PRESCRIPTION app for a phone.

A doctor literally had to write a prescription for the equivalent of downloading an app, it just came with the phone and watch too.

I need to know how many people are making how much money off something so ridiculous.

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MattVanAndel t1_ivkessj wrote

Oh man, this sounds like it would work for night terrors, too!

But why on earth does something so simple require a prescription? 🥴😡

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_Luftikus t1_ixrfpqv wrote

This would change my life. But remembering the fiasco of the ECG coming to Germany/Europe, I guess Ill have a fee more years of not sleeping through a single night ahead of me.

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thisisfuxinghard t1_ivhu0z1 wrote

Have they figured out the abysmal battery performance yet tho?

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LucyBowels t1_iviilpy wrote

My Ultra lasts 3 days and charges in an hour. My 7 lasted a day and charged in an hour. That’s acceptable for most people IMO

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Esmack t1_iviexd9 wrote

I can buy a dream catcher for like $5, thanks apple but no thanks

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