So I am really new to this (do I need an amp for my setup?)

Submitted by ManlyDude1047 t3_zwj87m in headphones

So, I've been meaning to get into better headphones for a while. I've used wireless my entire life and after I learned sonovo bought out sennheiser I thought "well, I get the hd600 now or I will never get the same quality products". One 30% off deal on amazon later my headphones are on their way! I was just wondering if I need an amp and or a dac for my setup. I have :

An Ipad pro (old gen) full of lossless recordings (apple music). I used to have itunes on my windows PC but I found that things sound better on my Ipad, I don't know if this is because itunes on windows doesn't support higher quality recordings and or my sound card.

I've just seen so many conflicting responses here about amp and if I need them or not. What are your personal opinions and preferences on amps? also what exactly is a dac? if I ever get an amp it will likely be a combo unit and as budget as possible because I did just spend all my money on a single headphone.

Thanks everyone ahead of time

Edit: Just recieved headphones, I-pad pro (old gen) runs it pretty good! Thanks everyone for the DAC and AMP advices, I think I'm going to save up a bit before I make a decision on them!

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covertash t1_j1uyov8 wrote

Keep it simple - especially because you are new to this. If it sounds good to you now, and you're not needing more volume, then don't spend any more money. All hobbyist communities will have ways of tempting you with greener pastures, but it's not an absolute necessity for enjoyment.

Additionally, everyone will have differing opinions on their own "ideal" setups, but keep in mind that it is ideal for them, specifically. The old sayings "you need to learn to walk before you run" and "one size does not fit all" both apply here, so just enjoy what you have for as long as possible.

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ManlyDude1047 OP t1_j1v3ccl wrote

I had some nice headphone (though for a limited time) before but I never had the sound scape experience until I tried the hd600’s in a sennheiser store. So I have a general idea of the kind of audio I am aiming to get at home but I think I’ll be satisfied for a LONG while nevertheless

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covertash t1_j1v5agf wrote

> I have a general idea of the kind of audio I am aiming to get at home

Ah ok. If you have a target or a reference, then at least that will help guide you towards a particular setup, further down the line.

> I think I’ll be satisfied for a LONG while nevertheless

This is genuinely great to hear, because it's very easy to get lost in the audiophile rabbit hole.

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ManlyDude1047 OP t1_j1vbxui wrote

I was lost at the lower end for a long while. I still kinda like my shure se215 and my current lover (was a gift) the momentum 4. Trying them out side by side the 600 just feels like ambrosia for the ears that I can't even imagine something above it. I tried the 800's and a couple of high end Meze headphones as well but I think I just couldn't tell the difference if there was any. I simply can't justify a 2k bump in the price for an experience that will feel the same to my slightly deaf ears, thus the "long time".

Alas, I'm already lost down the espresso rabbit hole. I just sunk 3k on upgrade half a year ago and I still feel the impact on the quality of food I'm having at home (no regrets!)

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covertash t1_j1vfgxu wrote

For what it's worth, I had a pair of HD600's back in 2016, but sold them off because I considered them largely "redundant" in my overall collection, at the time. Cut to present day, I ended up repurchasing a brand new pair last month because I actually missed that balance of sound, and am enamored by them all over again.

In audio, often times the amount spent doesn't always equal the amount of enjoyment and appreciation that can be derived. :)

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broncosandwrestling t1_j1uy6gk wrote

A DAC is a peice of hardware that takes the digital signal from your computer (skipping your sound card/internal audio) and converts that in to an analog signal that your headphones can understand. An amp amplifies that signal (louder).

If you get worse or quieter than ideal sound from your computer you might benefit from a DAC/amp as it would bypass your computer's audio hardware

You might be served well enough by a dongle or want something else. HD600 isn't particularly hard to drive but it's high impedance might be an issue

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ManlyDude1047 OP t1_j1v3ulk wrote

Ah so It bypasses my soundcard. Maybe my pc will sound good now too!

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blargh4 t1_j1vik24 wrote

Try disabling audio enhancements in the Windows sound settings. If your OEM configured it to have a bunch of signal processing enabled by default and that’s the difference you’re hearing, that applies to all connected audio devices in my experience.

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Hail_LordHelix t1_j1xb275 wrote

dac is basically soundcard in box sans the amp portion

(well unless u get a combo dac/amp)

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thaeyo t1_j1vdewi wrote

So there’s a lot to consider here, but first consider there’s a reasonably decent little DAC (chip) and Amp (chip) built into your iPad.

Most headphones dongles are going to offer a better DAC and Amp built into one small unit. If you want a desktop setup, that’s when you get a DAC and Amp as separate units. To this point, search your local used market for an JDS Labs Atom Stack. They are a great value if you can get one. (Stack means both units, DAC and amp)

The sound of the 600s will change slightly but it may not matter to you when you consider the cost.

A DAC upgrade will improve the sound, but an amp more notably. The resistance of the 600 varies by frequency, so adding more power ensure the FR response is as designed. It may sound ever slightly more bassy or full on an amp. The main thing I notice with an amp is improved transient response, kicks, tings, bells etc. The initial impact is deeper and more punchy. This is because there’s literally more power available and this drives the diaphragm faster.

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No-Context5479 t1_j1wbuig wrote

Just get the Qudelix 5K if you'd ever need an AMP/DAC Bluetooth Receiver... You'd thank me later, u/ManlyDude1047

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imsolass t1_j1uz1tv wrote

I haven't tried the HD600, so this is just my thoughts on DACs and amplifiers after spending a lot of time on this forum.

> What are your personal opinions and preferences on amps?

For me I would only buy an amp if I NEEDED one. If I'm powering my headphones through my computer and it's not loud enough at maxed out settings for my personal use case, then I'd consider an amp.

> also what exactly is a dac?

A DAC is a digital-audio converter. Basically, it converts the digital signal of the audio, and then converts it into an analog signal, which your headphones can understand and produce audio with. You don't NEED a DAC by any means, but if you're experiencing issues with the source you're using (issues can be things like a hissing noise when there's no music playing), then you can use an external DAC to fix those issues.

> if I ever get an amp it will likely be a combo unit and as budget as possible because I did just spend all my money on a single headphone.

Sure, that's up to you. I want to say that you should try listening to the HD 600 first from your devices without an amp and see if it needs more juice to sound adequately loud, and if it does... you can order either a dedicated amp or a combo DAC + amp unit. (Disclaimer: from reading the HD 600's resistance and sensitivity, I think you'll most likely need an amp) People do say that an amp makes the sound better, but it's usually a very marginal improvement for a lot of money, so it might not be worth it unless you absolutely need it.

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ManlyDude1047 OP t1_j1v2vlq wrote

Well, thank you!I’m hoping the Ipad can handle it!

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imsolass t1_j1vgcd3 wrote

If your iPad doesn't handle it, you'd probably need a portable DAC amp combo. I've heard from some people that the Apple dongle (3.5mm to lightning converter) works well enough for the HD 600

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ImOnlyHereForClash t1_j1v66xb wrote

So I'm curious, why do you think that Sonovo will cut the legs out from under Sennheiser?

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ManlyDude1047 OP t1_j1va58t wrote

I have a reason or two but it mostly comes down to "big fish eat medium fish = not much really".I might be biased. First of all Sonova, a company that isn't intrested in hi-fi equipment, isn't likely to fund any department in sennheiser that will keep developing audio equipment. I am not so old that I saw many products drop in quality but even now, new sennheiser products aren't up to par with the older ones(mostly in longevity). When I buy something I usually want it to last a while. I still have my Stanley classics from 2005 and they are pretty much like new.

Everyone that I know who had a chance to buy the 600s still use their granite counter versions pretty much daily. The new gen 600 was already a drop in material quality and for the next version I don't have much hope for it to be produced let alone without half a kilo of plastic.

I don't necessarily think they will cut out the legs of senny, but public exchange companies are mostly just trying to boost up the share prices, and keeping sennheiser as a company that develops high quality headphones isn't really to their benefit.

Secondly the company vision seems to be "make everyone use wireless headphones duh" which doesn't sound good to me. Either way Phonak is carrying sonova on their back and Unitron is their main tech group. This just doesn't give me much hope for the future of sennheiser as it seems to just be a quick grab off the market that if it doesn't profit them, will just stay as a brand name while their researchers and engineers are distributed to other brands

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ostuniman t1_j1v01x5 wrote

every headphone and every dac and every amp will sound totally different to each person. Only you will know what sounds good.

Its like buying car. some love leather seats and some hate it.

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ManlyDude1047 OP t1_j1v2ntx wrote

I see, but the issue is I can go to a car dealership and get a test drive, for this I need to order one off amazon and hope for the best :/

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Supertangerina t1_j1v3c41 wrote

well if you buy a reliable car with good performance it could end up not being the ideal car for you but dont worry you will still love it vs going everywhere on foot ;)

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WingsOfParagon t1_j1v6jcp wrote

HD600 is probably on the borderline. If you like to listen to your music loudly or likes your bass beefy, then an amp would benefit greatly. The general rule of thumb is that each 3db increase double the power draw.

A good option could be a wireless DAC like the Fiio BTR3 which will turn your headphone into a wireless one while also double as a small amp.

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ManlyDude1047 OP t1_j1vay26 wrote

Over the years I've kinda turned allergic to the concept of wireless, things just seem much more reliable the old fashioned way (for now). Though the idea of turning my headphones wireless does sound good :D You mentioned that the power draw is about double for every 3 dB, how long does the BTR3 last on battery alone? It seems... tiny.

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WingsOfParagon t1_j1vbf04 wrote

It's a 550mAh, should get anywhere between 6-9hr of listening. It varies depending on volume, headphones draw, and Bluetooth encoding codecs used.

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ManlyDude1047 OP t1_j1vdag6 wrote

Huh, it seems like I might be going back to wireless after all. Thank you

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bbuky01 t1_j1vc2be wrote

My iPad Pro is newer so no headphone jack but do have an older iPad with a headphone jack and it does a pretty good job driving my HD-6XX’s which are pretty much HD-650 but the 600’s are a bit less sensitive so probably not going to do as well so I would opt for a amp myself. Even hooking up a old Dragonfly Red I have was definitely much better sounding than the iPad alone.

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ManlyDude1047 OP t1_j1vdlof wrote

Well funny thing, I just learned my ipad has a 3.5 jack! I am so used to getting shafted by newer gen apple on this that I totally forgot it has a 3.5! I've been using the dongle for everthing for the last 2 years, thank you!

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blargh4 t1_j1vlknz wrote

If a good dac/hpa is in your budget, get one. If it’s not, I wouldn’t sweat it too much. If you’re getting the volume you need, the difference between an external dac/amp and a solid headphone jack like the iPad’s is probably placebo.

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TugSpeedmanTivo t1_j1wdwvn wrote

If you’re using an iPad Pro, use the 10$ usb-C dongle. I bought sundaras and a fiio k5 pro because I was using my iPhone as a source.. then I got the iPad Pro and dongle, now my dac amp collects dust.

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o0Spoonman0o t1_j1wydat wrote

Qudelix5K and be done with it. Perfect little dac/amp and very reasonably priced. If you should feel compelled to learn about how to EQ it's also got a 10 band GEQ/20band PEQ.

I use mine as my desktop amp as well as portable with my phone via LDAC. I have no idea why you'd bother with something more expensive unless you've got some seriously hard to drive headphones. It measures fantastic and does everything you could want all while being tiny.

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hourglass7 t1_j1yhxw5 wrote

The only way I can make the sound out of PC as good as from my Iphone is by using an external DAC and WASAPI (it bypasses windows sound/enhancements). Although, if you want to EQ with WASAPI you need to do through Roon (which is very much recommended but cannot be used with Apple Music).

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Supertangerina t1_j1uyhio wrote

A decent dac amp sould noticeably improve mostly the technical performance of those hd600(which btw are said to be notorious for scaling very well when paired to a better amp) and if you notice a difference from different devices you have that indicates that you should benefit a lot from a proper amp.

Also dac is what generates the analog signal from the digital stream aka turns 1s and zeros into an analog signal and a better one should hep you avoid all the usually terrible built in circuitry so when you have the sub 10 bucks apple dongle available that should be the minimun requirement for you.

I'd say get a decent dac amp or a stack or an apple dongle with an amp connected (i got the very cheap topping dx1 (100$ dac amp that could totally drive the hd600) recently and i am very happy with my purchase- sound improved noticeably).

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ManlyDude1047 OP t1_j1v3mst wrote

Oh, I was looking at the dx1 on amazon. Think it’ll work out well with the Ipad?

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Supertangerina t1_j1v4lyz wrote

I don't see why not. its a small little unit you could easily carry to different parts of the house, no power brick, really well built and it worked seamlessly out of windows for me.

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boonemos t1_j1v31fb wrote

In somewhat reverse order, Digital to Analog Converter usually refers to an adapter that lets you plug in headphones through the USB port. Apple does a better than average job for audio things except when it comes to actually having ports to plug audio equipment into. Dongle is pretty cheap but I like the Qudelix 5K. While they don't pay me to shill it would be rad if they did.

While Apple Music doesn't have everything in their library... I don't think any of them do... the lossless support is really nice! Windows environment sucks but moving out of it is a good way to have less losses in your signal chain. Still not really sure of a good Windows service to cache and stream losslessly though that matches the apple library.

For the good ol' m8 Sennies, I'm seeing 300ohm impedance which can limit how loud they can get. I think this community is getting better at trying to not blast out their ears with open backs so you might not even need an amp at all! Yeah, the amp helps if you want to get L O U D. Thing is, it's hard to find papers that explicitly state how different listening when it comes to having more powerful amplifiers. Until some more research comes out on it, we're kind of in a spot where people are going to defend spending lots of money. You'll probably do fine with the dongle if what I see from https://old.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/ecf1ud/apple_usbc_to_35mm_adapter_impressions/ and https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/ are right, but the build quality on the dongles are iffy so I would recommend getting two apple dongles when the first one breaks in a few months like mine did, a 5K, or something more expensive if you're curious.

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ManlyDude1047 OP t1_j1v5krf wrote

I have the dongle already because although I am a windows fanboy I just can’t get used to android phones. When I swapped to the Ipad It was crazy how much the audio improved. I thought I was streaming losless high-res (to my shure se215 and porta-pro’s).

Hope it all sounds good, I guess we’ll see tomorrow!

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boonemos t1_j1v8e4l wrote

While I won't disagree about how it's fun to hate on Windows, it should have decent support for 44.1KHz and 24-bit playback. Off the shelf, apple has nonmiddling electronics so I can see why it would sound better. I'm guessing you already ran full volume on windows with PEACE? Did it sound different with the dongle? It's highly likely the motherboard came with a noisy sound chip if it's years old. Anyways, best of luck with the new setup!

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ManlyDude1047 OP t1_j1vd5iv wrote

I did mess with Peace, yes and I also downloaded some FLAC files "legally" to see if the difference was about my source files. I don't really like going full volueme on anything my ears are a bit sensitive after going to the club a total of 6 times in my entire life. But it was night and day! Even on bluetooth what I got out of the Ipad and the windows is crazy different. See the thing is I recently discovered this and I am not really good at troubleshooting OR problem solving for that matter. If anyone asks "Lossless high-res" saved my life and for the rest I have no idea why one sounds better then the other. I just know I enjoy my current setup at least 56x times more.

The motherboard is a stock HP so I have no hopes for the sound card to be any good anyway, I just had the accidental step to the "other side" and now can't turn back.

Also, I don't know if thats realted either but turning off Dolby Atmos really imroved my experience as well it seems like. Other than anything Pat Benatar ever sung which is weird...

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boonemos t1_j1vfahz wrote

Might take a few minutes, but try turning off Enhancements and Spatial sounds in the Sounds Playback Properties. And try at least Studio Quality (24bit 44100Hz) in the Advanced Default Format. For PEACE, run it at 100% and use the Pre Amplifying to get it to a nice comfortable volume. Could help a little or be completely worthless but it doesn't cost any money. Supposedly this should minimize how much noise is passed through the chain. Cheers!

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Jmo04 t1_j1vw7s3 wrote

I only looked through these comments a bit and saw a bunch of people saying you might not need an amp. I’d definitely argue you should get an amp/dac combo around the $200 range if you can. I think what you have might power it “fine” but the loudness you will get out of them is going to be severely hindered. Even my old hd598 sounds better with some power than with my phone or computer and it requires less power than what you have

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GLikesSteak t1_j1vyuv3 wrote

Get a cheap external amp like a Topping DX1, the HD600 may get enough volume from your ipad or PC but more than likely won't sound full/sound "dead" as compared when it's amped.

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liukasteneste28 t1_j1wd857 wrote

Well you don't need dac amp combo but it will help a lot in your case. Tho i have heard that ipad has a decent dac amp build in. external will do wonders for you.

But do you wanna have mobile dac amp or just purely for desktop use?

And what is your budged?

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