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Awkward-Media-3550 t1_j2hz2bu wrote

Building new roads will not reduce traffic density, but it will increase total traffic volume which should correlate to increased economic activity, justifying the costs of building in the eyes of planners that care about pumping numbers.

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Bobbydadude01 t1_j2hzobi wrote

It not affecting traffic density isn't always true and is only really represented in high density areas.

If North Adam's turned a 1 lane arterial road into a 2 lane arterial, it wouldn't see its traffic volume double.

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Square-Dragonfruit76 t1_j2hzep3 wrote

That assumes people weren't using other modes of transportation already

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jimaug87 t1_j2i156y wrote

Which roads are we referring to?

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Square-Dragonfruit76 t1_j2i1v8r wrote

They're expanding the lanes of multiple roads. And they're building a new road my way to work (I commute from Cambridge to Wakefield).

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Ockham51 t1_j2ib8wu wrote

This is not true. Other than adding capacity for safety and transit, like bus-only and HOV lanes, there has not been a meaningful increase in roadway capacity in more than 40 years.

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dpm25 t1_j2ibtfm wrote

A number of state roads have been expanded recently however Massdot does seem to be coming around of late. Even DCR is looking at roadway narrowing and they are as bad as it gets.

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Intrepid_Priority154 t1_j2hz643 wrote

Where are we building new roads?

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NativeMasshole t1_j2i2r60 wrote

Where do we even have room for new roads? That's the whole problem in the first place!

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Intrepid_Priority154 t1_j2i2zdj wrote

That was not my question

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NativeMasshole t1_j2i31bu wrote

Yeah, I was just piling on.

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SomeLightAssPlay t1_j2i5yij wrote

this is actually almost an aside but ive noticed the reading comprehension of reddit in general has really gone down a lot recently. people will make assumptions and/or interpret you as having said/thought the wildest things that simply you did not. The person above is a small example but ive seen it everywhere on reddit at a really increased rate.

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NativeMasshole t1_j2i7z4t wrote

Admittedly, I'm on here way too much, and I sometimes catch myself jumping on people for the smallest (perceived) things. Reddit really does have an overall kind of shitty, argumentative culture. Still miles better than the alternatives though.

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Hairy_Greek t1_j2i24rd wrote

Where are you seeing new roads?

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asscheeseterps710 t1_j2i5a42 wrote

Saw one being developed in Hudson but that’s is for the Museum I think

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Hairy_Greek t1_j2i6uzb wrote

I mean things like that are to be expected. But it isn’t as if we are seeing new state routes, urban arterials, or collectors being constructed.

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Bobbydadude01 t1_j2hzixt wrote

What roads are you referring to? We currently have a complete steers initiative in the state, so road upgrades/construction must include mobility measures for multiple forms of transportation unless it is a high-speed highway.

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beachwhistles t1_j2i0cgw wrote

I personally like the exposed rebar look, with the faded green.

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Unique-Public-8594 t1_j2hz1p6 wrote

It’s the short sighted planners (“we have traffic so we need new roads, public transportation doesn’t make money”) vs the long term planners (“road maintenance is also expensive, public transportation is better for the environment”).

It’s also how do I appeal to big donors to get re-elected (because, statistically fewer big donors ride public transportation).

In my ideal world, public transportation is clean, safe, frequent, and free.

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March_Latter t1_j2hzwrz wrote

In Massachusetts "new" is always better. Look up any feasibility study in any town, the answer is always to replace and the repair cost will always justify the new building. Its intentional.

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squarerootofapplepie t1_j2i7lc5 wrote

What new roads are you talking about?

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OldKingsHigh t1_j2iesfr wrote

One example I can think of is I believe the cape is going from 8 lanes to 12 across the canal.

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Technical_Hair_4383 t1_j2i4vn3 wrote

I see very few new roads constructed here on the Cape, except for new developments, which are private. Most of the construction here on the roads are improvements -- widening to include bike lanes and pedestrian sidewalks, putting in roundabouts to increase safety by limiting speeds. Local businesses here hate any construction, of course, because it limits access temporarily in a seasonal economy, so they fight it like hell.

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dpm25 t1_j2ic6qu wrote

I mean the cape is a pretty good example of road widening. Going from 8 to 12 lanes crossing the canal soon, with no commensurate increase in commuter rail or commuter bus access.

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squarerootofapplepie t1_j2ijewf wrote

But it’s a bridge. They’re widening the bridge.

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dpm25 t1_j2ijhxc wrote

It's not a roadway widening if it's a bridge?

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squarerootofapplepie t1_j2ijs19 wrote

It’s a bridge improvement. I think that the driving force behind this was fixing the bridge, not widening the road.

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dpm25 t1_j2ijvnz wrote

Yet, despite that, the road is being..... What's the word?

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squarerootofapplepie t1_j2ika1h wrote

Why are you being so pretentious about this, I’m just saying that this is not the same as just adding more lanes to a highway, which has one singular goal, to add more lanes. The goal of the bridge repair is to repair the bridge.

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dpm25 t1_j2ikd9r wrote

They are literally adding more lanes.

Literally.

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squarerootofapplepie t1_j2iktz7 wrote

Ok fine whatever, I give up.

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dpm25 t1_j2ilcvr wrote

You are trying to be pendantic about a literal roadway widening.

If roads need repair and they get widened does that not count as a widening in your mind?

Bit strange really as roads, bridges tunnels etc need repair CONSTANTLY.

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DumbshitOnTheRight t1_j2hyurc wrote

Because new! shiny! looks like progress and maintenance does not.

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Nonsheeple_Funnyluv t1_j2i5rk8 wrote

I think very few new roads are being built. We need many more alternate routes available to reduce the standstill traffic and road rage. I think the question is a messed up one. I guess I’m in the mood for a fight haha

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nonstopman t1_j2ibxyx wrote

First off Massachusetts roads are way due for an upgrade. We are one of the oldest states!!!

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dpm25 t1_j2ih3kx wrote

Yes. They should be upgraded with narrowed lanes, less lanes, better sidewalks and curb height bike lanes.

We should also be dramatically narrowing, adding modal filters and adding chicanes to pretty much every residential street.

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traditionalsmoke01 t1_j2i0oig wrote

Where is the study and research?

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Square-Dragonfruit76 t1_j2i0x7n wrote

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/videos/22280067/highways-traffic-worse-congestion-expansion

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traditionalsmoke01 t1_j2i5lx3 wrote

Sorry but can’t take vox seriously and neither should you.

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Ockham51 t1_j2iblkn wrote

This is legit traffic engineering regardless of Vox being the source. A quick Google search will yield dozens of reputable results. Regardless, the OP's assertion that this applies to Massachusetts is wrong. There has not been any expansion of the interstate system here in 40 years.

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Quincyperson t1_j2i41u3 wrote

I’m aware of the induced demand argument, but what new roads are being built?

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Ockham51 t1_j2ib18e wrote

Massachusetts is not adding any new roadways and hasn't for more than 40 years. The last time a new interstate was built was in the early 1980's when I-190 (Leominster to Worcester) was completed and the remaining spur of I-495 to the cape was completed.

The only roadway changes that have been made since then were modifications of existing roadways with capacity changes for safety or evacuation route purposes - like the big dig.

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Legitimate_Button_14 t1_j2ipkuq wrote

This doesn’t mean it leads to slower commuter times. It should still makes for quicker drive times and takes traffic off the side roads. It’s not necessarily a bad thing.

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Hoosac_Love t1_j2i0rgk wrote

where and when are new roads being built with the excetion of the Eisenhower Interstate system built in the 50's and 60's. And the federal roads built earlier on most roads are just pavement of pre existing dirt roads from earlier times.

THere may have been lane additions or turning normal roads into controled acces roads,really when has a new road been built in 50 years?

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oohkt t1_j2i7757 wrote

This reminded me of old route 1 in Newburyport. It's right off of 95, paved, and nature has taken it over. It's a bike/walking path now. It's still odd to see.

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barzbub t1_j2i0ssp wrote

I think VEHICLES are more traffic, they just travel on roads! Less roads would cause more vehicles to be on fewer roads resulting in my traffic jams!

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Square-Dragonfruit76 t1_j2i1064 wrote

You would think that, but there's been multiple studies on it that say otherwise.

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barzbub t1_j2i1esl wrote

The belief that the world is flat has many studies too, doesn’t make it true. More people mean more vehicles, not the other way around. Just as roads don’t miraculously make cars appear!

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Funkybeatzzz t1_j2i2jyt wrote

I challenge you to find one actual study arguing for a flat earth.

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barzbub t1_j2i2pfd wrote

You’re joking? We both know the sun rotates around the Earth!

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Funkybeatzzz t1_j2i3et9 wrote

I’m not joking. You are using a common anti-science argument against OP as some sort of “gotcha” and immediately pull back when challenged with some sort of humor. OP has shown actual scientific evidence with a source and you think your anecdotal evidence trumps it. Go back to Facebook with this nonsense.

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barzbub t1_j2i4guq wrote

Massachusetts Population Grew 7.4% to Over 7 million From 2010 to 2020https://www.census.gov/library/stories/state-by-state/massachusetts-population-change-between-census-decade.html

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Funkybeatzzz t1_j2i4kqo wrote

How is this a flat earth study? Now I know you’re just trolling.

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barzbub t1_j2i4v3i wrote

The discussion is about roads creating traffic! The population increase is the root cause of more roads, houses, traffic, pollution and etc!

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Funkybeatzzz t1_j2i55b9 wrote

You made the claim that OP’s study can’t be believed because there are studies saying flat earth is true. There aren’t any actual studies about this. You are dismissing scientific evidence based on your feelings.

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barzbub t1_j2i78ks wrote

I was implying the study was the same as claiming the earth was flat. Making the analogy that roads create traffic is backwards logic. The 500k population increase is why there’s MORE everything!! Happy New Year!

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Funkybeatzzz t1_j2iyidg wrote

It might be backwards logic to you but it’s what the actual data analysis shows. Just because it doesn’t make sense to you doesn’t mean you can just dismiss it.

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barzbub t1_j2izdrr wrote

I can and have! How about this, close all the CAR DEALERSHIPS and really solve the problem!!

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Funkybeatzzz t1_j2izqhx wrote

And this is why the US is a joke to the rest of the world.

Science: “Here’s some data and analyses!”

u/barzbub: “My feelings are better than your science!”

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Funkybeatzzz t1_j2i4q3o wrote

And to be clear, I don’t think you believe in flat earth. You’re just using it as an argument to dismiss actual science.

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[deleted] OP t1_j2hywt4 wrote

[removed]

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