Anti fascist Pinocchio for the win

I loved how they depicted Mussolini in this movie 😂😂😂

Definitely would have given this a best pic nom over Avatar.

Completely agree! Del Toro added to the story, made it make more sense and got you way more emotionally invested. Of course he also brought along his good luck charm, Ron Pearlman. Love that some directors and actors in Hollywood have like a special bond / collaboration. Also liked the language joke with "il dulce". I highly recommend you watch the making of mini-documentary, if you haven't already?

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I haven’t seen it, documentaries just aren’t my thing

I agree, I liked avatar as well but I think that this was leagues better

The best of the three Pinocchio films that came out last year easily

Cabinet Of Curiosities, if you want more Del Toro.

I watched that, it had a few misses but overall it was pretty solid.

It’s fine/good.

Wonderfully animated of course, but the material is ultimately very shallow and patronising, (which makes sense, it’s primarily aimed at children), it runs too long, and the songs are just not good for the most part.

Agree again. Think my favorite is a draw between The Autopsy and The Viewing.

I went to the exhibit on this movie hosted at MoMA in New York and it really impressed me how much work and care went into the puppetry and sets.

Those were my two favourites as well, I liked the viewing more because of the atmosphere and that soundtrack was amazing. I’m a sucker for that stuff

How is it patronizing?

It’s constantly telling you exactly what the themes are, what the characters are feeling and how you should feel/ the lessons you should be taking away from it etc.

Understandable for a kids film, but still not something I think is good.

Y tho

You'd think I'm making this up, but agree a third time! Loved the late 70's / early 80's vibe! The gooey monster made me think of The Thing and similar movies. And also, to have RoboCop himself starring. Awesome.

They don’t interest me in the slightest.

Would have dropped Elvis, Top Gun, or Women Talking before Avatar for BP

Those two were the best. I hope there will be a season 2. It was a lot of fun to get such a wide variety of horror stories.

i started watching it with high hopes after all the hypes, but was very disappointed. couldn't go past half, don't have plans to finish watching.

You're acting like there's no subtext. The subtheme of death, failure and renewal as something regular humans lack and don't understand is a constant theme. Pinocchio gets to live several lives in an environment and time where most humans don't and it enhances the OG story while making its own progress.

I agree the film isn't perfect and the songs should have been better but it's a very deep cut into humanity as a whole.

The songs were great too. Ciao Papa is so beautiful. If you've lost your father, it's a real tear-jerker.

I’m not pretending there’s no sub text, it’s just not a particularly thematically deep film, and the film beats you over the head with its main themes repeatedly, it does not expect the viewer to do much of any thinking. It’s a kids first introduction to its themes and that’s fine given that it’s a kids film, but it’s not a particularly “deep cut into humanity as a whole”

Just like the Disney’s remake, both Pinocchio movies have a terrible messaging for kids which is that it’s ok to lie to get yourself out of an unfavourable situation.

10/10 movie. Love it. Beautifully animated and written. Beautiful soundtrack too. Every now and then I feel sometimes the love thats poured into a film shows, it just flows, and this was one of those cases. I love it.

I agree; I also think the portrayal of Mussolini was ridiculously comical and undermined any kind of serious critique of fascism. Similar problem to Jo-Jo Rabbit, in my view -- films that flirted with very serious themes but treated them in an irreverent way, leaving the audience with nothing deeper.

That last line has gotta be one of the most succinctly sad and true things I’ve heard in a movie.

As a whole I really dug the flick. I think the biggest problem was that despite all the changes, Del Toro was still stuck with telling a story we’ve all seen a million times, and for the most part the story beats remain the same. Not much he could’ve done, just what happens when adapting something so popular. The songs were also pretty weak for the most part.

But hey, I’d still give it 4/5, so these are nit picks. I’d also hot take (?) and say it’s the third best Del Toro movie.

I watched it about a week ago and overall really enjoyed it! The animation was my favorite aspect as a fan of the medium, but I thought the main characters were well-realized and engaging. In particular, I loved the opening scenes before Pinocchio was made, as well as the circus bits. "Ciao Papa" was perhaps the peak of the film.

The movie did start to lose me a bit in the second half; I thought the fascism angle was not very well-integrated with the rest of the movie, and that whole plotline kinda just never resolved. I e seen several of Del Toro's other movies (Pan's Labyrinth, The Devil's Backbone, and the Hellboy movies), and I felt the messaging in those movies, while never subtle, felt organic. Luckily, it stuck the landing; I really liked the way the movie ended.

Fucking hell

Finger crossed for season 2 indeed. I think the series had more than enough success for Netflix to green-light it, but haven't heard any confirmation yet.

Had the problem a lot of thr live action Disney remakes have where it doesn't really commit to being a musical so the songs it does have just feel out of place.

It's barely half an hour, some fun behind the scenes details though.

Anything would have been better than the dog turd that Disney just put out, so this movie was a great palate cleanse

And with ''The Fall of the House of Usher'' from Mike Flanagan being his last Netflix project they do need more content for the spooky season.

Am usually pretty up to date when it comes to upcoming projects, but this one I've totally missed... Thank you! Just set a reminder on my Netflix. Loved Midnight Club, Midnight Mass, Haunting Of Bly Manor and Haunting Of Hill House. Also like that Henry Thomas has sort of become Mike Flanagan's good luck charm. Thomas was truly uncanny in Doctor Sleep.

K

I turned it off half way through.

I have watched thousands of movies and own ~500 and could not force myself to sit through the whole movie.

Not G's best work.

> I have watched thousands of movies and own ~500 and could not force myself to sit through the whole movie.

Congrats?

Have you seen GDT talk about the film? there is actually a lot of deep stuff there that doenst just hit you over the head. Also this isnt a childrens movie. Its not even aimed at children. So maybe you might need to look through another lens

I’ve seen him talk about it. There’s nothing in the film that was particularly deep and the film has absolutely no restraint in how it works thematically.

It’s absolutely is a children’s movie come on dude lmao. I like the film as well, you do not need to be so insecure about liking a kids movies that you need to pretend it’s not one.

no one is insecure here. Its not a kids movie. Animation is not just for children. Animation is a MEDIUM. This movie hes said himself is not a kids movie. That if you do show it to your kids that it would bring some good talks but that its not made for them. And its not about me "liking it", I worked on it. I will PROUDLY say that Lion King (the original) Is one of my favorite movies. I got to disneyland every few weeks im not embarrassed by what I like.

I enjoyed this movie as it's gorgeous and I love Guillermo Del Toro as a director, but I was pretty hung up on the ending especially.

Did anyone else feel like themes of mortality were weakened considerably by the handling of Pinocchio's >!immortality!<?

>!Especially when it's revealed that he's able to become mortal whenever he wants. And when he becomes mortal to sacrifice himself, he's brought back to life and made immortal again. And it seems to be implied he can also choose when to die as well?!<

>!After eternal life being brought up as eternal pain, the brevity of human life's importance to being human, and the threat of being alive until the end of time, I was extremely disappointed and slightly bothered this was all just written away by the ending.!<

Bro come on, you can’t say you’re not being insecure about pretending it’s not made for kids, and then make a completely disingenuous rebuttal pretending I said something completely different and change the framing of the topic completely.

I never said animation is just for children, I literally did not claim that at all. I said Pinocchio is a kids film, which it is. It’s in the kids section of Netflix. It makes huge strides and effort to make itself palatable to children, and hold their hands throughout the entire thing story-wise. The entire purpose of how it presents itself thematically is to ensure that the children watching it get the point and take on the valuable lessons it has.

Adults can enjoy animation while also acknowledging that a film is made for children. It’s embarrassing that every time a kids film comes along that treats children with a bit of respect, grown adults like you have to pretend it’s not actually aimed at kids at all. If you want people who don’t respect animation to realise it can be for adults, actually champion animated films aimed at adults, instead of pretending films made for kids aren’t for kids, it’s not helping.

I honestly didn’t like it. I was very excited and thought the film looked beautiful. But it all seemed way too simple for me. The character development just happened without any reason. Gepetto was a grumpy guy, missing his son and treating Pinocchio badly. Then he gets kidnapped and all is a sudden he loves him.

Pinocchio is an absolute twat. Ungrateful, selfishC etc. So like any child. Suddenly, he gets a heart of gold. Oh, and he loves his father.

Cricket? Same. Hasn’t seen Pinocchio all film. Suddenly loves him and gives up his one and only wish.

The film is full of these examples where characters act a certain way because the movie’s plot requires it, but it just comes out of nowhere. The songs are also relatively meh and I really didn’t like Pinocchio’s design, which looked more like a horrifying Digimon (anybody who watched the show, knows the one).

I still think it looked beautiful and the setting was amazing, but for me it was all form and no substance. But that’s just me, and I’m happy the majority seemed to absolutely love this film.

I almost cried after watching. It’s not just an animation for kids, but a story of friendship, love and peace that resonates with adults too. The themes of anti-war and “YOLO” are the most impressive compared to the other Pinocchio adaptations

You guys know that Disney didn't make Pinocchio right? The Disney film isn't the original. We used to read it at school in Italy

Pinocchio doesn’t become immortal again after Sebastian uses his wish on him, if he were to get shot he’d be dead for good but for him to die naturally it will take a while since he’s made of wood.

Elvis is on there? Really? That makes it kind of insulting that it wasn't nominated. Not surprising though considering it's technically an animated movie, and the Oscars are still awful at recognizing animated movies.

Go ahead and find where I said Disney made Pinocchio

Oh this wasn't aimed at you, but I saw many comments that seemed to imply it.

I hate musicals, should I watch it?

I’d almost go as far to say it’s NOT an animation for kids. This had some pretty brutal moments that would be scarring for a lot kids. Definitely a great movie though.

Incredible film. One of my favorites of the year.

My 3yo daughter made me replay the poop song like 20x, so there's that too.

Ahhh okay, that does make the ending a bit better for me if that's the case.

There’s something in here for all ages to appreciate 😂😂😂

I finished it, but I didn’t get it. Maybe I’m not a member of the target audience, but I thought it was really boring.

Honestly, I do not understand this Elvis awards season hype at all.

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I think Guillermo del Toro really doesn't like fascists.

I was with you until you said "before Avatar". None of those deserve a nomination.

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Ya I’m starting to get that feeling as well

Oscars demographic loves elvis. It is prime oscar bait

That’s very true

Thought it was great take. I definitely got weepy.

I am not pretending anything. There can be a way a crew work on it and a director envision it and then a network promote it or categorize it differently. I never said you said animation is just for children, I said what GDT said about animation. It really ISNT presented that way and I think we just both view the movie very differently. Like I wouldnt recommend to my friends to show their kids this movie alone. THATS my pov.

The way that you replied to my comment absolutely acts as if that was the argument I was making.

Del Toro actually talked about how the audience includes children, it’s just not a “babysitter”movie that offers no value to adults. You’re misinterpreting what he said. If kids weren’t the audience here, the PG adaptation of one of the most famous childrens stories ever would not handle its subject matter the way that it does, (including watering down the war and fascism so that it’s palatable to them). Insisting that kids movies are actually for adults and not suitable at all just devalues animations potential as an adult medium to the people who don’t think it is.

It’s a real shame that on the rare occasions kids get a genuinely good movie that seeks to teach them valuable lessons, you wouldn’t recommend them to watch it, and not thinking it’s suitable to kids shows an incredibly blatant misunderstanding of the material and it’s suitability since the director has said he made it palatable for them.

one of my favorite animated movies of all time. we all got sick and tired of all the crappy pinocchio movies coming out left and right, but this movie gave us hope. the animation is beyond beautiful, absolute eye candy in every scene. this movie can juggle what seems like many stories at once and do it right. they put a masterful spin on the pinocchio universe and gave us probably the best geppetto we've seen since the original came out. this movie left me wanting more and i hope we do get to see more of that universe.

Im not out of touch here, you are completely misunderstanding me and I dont have time to argue with someone on the internet. You are reading into what im saying a lot and putting more value on my words than my itent. I never said that " Insisting that kids movies are actually for adults and not suitable at all just devalues animations potential as an adult medium to the people who don’t think it is."

What I meant by the when my friends ask if their kids should watch it I mean not alone, depends on the age. There's so much more nuance to what I am saying and you are twisting my words. So im done here. Im telling you while working on it there was no like "were making this for kids" We were making a story for all that parents might need to talk about some of the darker themes with their kids about.

But im not gonna talk with you when you nitpick and twist my words.

I kinda hated the movie. Character motivation is one of the most important aspects for me to enjoy a story and it was horrendous in the movie. Geppetto HATED Pinocchio and wanted nothing to do with him. He was forced onto him and he didn't care. Then after 2 days of not giving a shit, he uproots his life to search for him after he WILLINGLY left to join a circus, earn money and become famous. That makes no sense from his character point of view and runied the entire movie in mine.

I didn’t say you said that, I said the argument your making accomplishes that. It might be worth reading the points I’m actually making before saying I’m misunderstanding you.

There is nuance, but you can’t complain I’m missing the nuance in your position when you don’t understand what I’m saying, and making incredibly specific statements that remove and ignore nuance.

You cannot say I’m twisting words, when you tried to reframe my argument as something else, and completely twisted the literal director of the films words to pretend it’s not aimed at or suitable for children, when GDT has said he made sure it accommodated them. A family movie is a kids movie. It’s not a kids movie in the exact same way Paw Patrol is, but it is still one. I’m not sure what capacity you worked on it, but your mindset does not align with the creative mind behind it.

I said it to my wife and I'll say it here: it is literally impossible to write a Pinocchio musical score now that Disney wrote "There Are No Strings On Me". That's it, that is the most succinct way of singing the concept of Pinocchio. Everything else is doomed to break the less is more rule.

Did you sleep through parts of it or something?

Watch the beginning again before Pinocchio leaves. They barely interact with each other and Geppetto definitely doesn't care about him at that point.

That’s not saying much but yeah, great movie

I thought this movie was incredible. I cried.

I cried a lot

Yeah, this is one of those rare films where you are just filled with gratitude to the filmmakers for taking the time and care to make it! A real gift.

Not even remotely. It's a wonderful movie made by a brilliant director. Bad take.

Do you prefer this or the Disney version?

Good, but as far as animated 2022 movies go, Puss in Boots: The Last Wish wins out.

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I watch the making-of documentary and they said it was an effort of a decade of work

That made me really sad. It's a really great movie, and we won't have another stop motion movie like this. Maybe ever.

Pinocchio is great. But like. 20% greater because of what it is? It's not groundbreaking. The golden age of these non-computer animations is over, and works like these are not what media corporations want when they can print a Frozen every 2 years.

I didn't care for the musical numbers but thought it was a pretty great movie overall.

Same, I think hype is based on the great acting job by this newcomer. He did do great. But, IMO that’s not enough to get BP.

I am not arguing with you any more. They do align I promise, im just not gona spend hrs on the internet re-explaining myself to you. I probably shoulda said nothing in the first place. I never said it wasn't suitable for children, you are misunderstanding me and making statements off what you think im trying to say. Please stop and have a wonderful day.

Austin Butlers performance is what saved that movie and made me somewhat enjoyed it. It’s safe to say I really did not like whatever Tom Hanks was doing in that movie, it pissed me off so much it almost completely ruined it for me.

“Did we just become best friends?”

There is no point in arguing with someone who says this movie is for kids. The director himself said that it wasn’t, that’s the end of the conversation right there.

All the best.

He said it wasn’t just for kids, not that it wasn’t for kids.

Thank you <3 I mean its for everyone. But def not something you have kids watch alone. It can create WONDERFUL conversations about life and death between kids ad their parents but would I say hey 4 year old timmy can watch this alone. No, I wouldnt.

A Redditor made friend is a friend till the end.

I thought the animation was great. I thought the songs were okay. It was a good movie with a lot going for it.

But I couldn't stand Pinocchio. He was the worst part of the movie and I probably wouldn't have finished if I wasn't watching it with my partner. It was just not for me..

As far as biopics go, Elvis is not Oscar bait at all. It’s a very unique gaudy maximalist film, it doesn’t fit the conventions of “Oscar Bait”.

It must be difficult to balance tackling fascism while remaining digestible for children, but I just don’t think it’s accomplished well at all.

Sure, the songs aren’t very good, but they’re sporadically placed enough that it doesn’t really feel like a musical.

I'm hoping they meant it's not "just some cartoon for kids," as opposed to "not only is it an animation for kids."

There's really nothing "for kids" about this film. If people are still walking around in 2023 thinking "oh it's animated, must be a family movie" they have been living under a rock

The movie’s absolutely amazing but I couldn’t finish it because the war scenes hit too close to home (I’m Ukrainian). I guess it just shows how well made it is.

Fuck that’s really unfortunate, I hope you and your family are safe

This movie, although nice to look at.. definitely is not better than puss in boots 2. lol

Not for kids alone, but for kids with their grown up to watch together for sure.

Is a person allowed to be emotional and change their mind? Have you ever gotten mad and yelled at a friend or family member, Been mad at them for a few days and then made up? This is life my friend.

Is the whale scene in it? My kid's latest thing is being terrified of being eaten by a whale.

Tom Hanks seems to be phoning it in now.

Yep!

I wouldn’t even call that phoning it in because it didn’t seem like a lazy performance it was just a terrible one. That accent was unbearable

Another wartime children’s fantasy from Guillermo Del Toro. This time it’s animated.

I’m getting a bit tired of the formula.

Downvote me if you want, but I’m off the Del Toro train.

The only film that made me cry 3 fucking times(The Up style opening, conversation between Pinocchio and candlewick in the camp, and the ending). My pick for the best 2022 film.

Why didn't the cricket wish for Geppetos real son to come back to life?

What kind of a response is that 😅

Pinocchio’s nose growing has always been used as a warning to him for his lies and disobedience. Both 2022 Pinocchio movies used his growing nose phenomena for him to get out of the cage (Disney remake) and the sea monster (del Toro). His nose was never about being a device for escape.

Oh dear

Ya this movie kicked my ass emotionally

He lies to save the lives of his father and his friends, idk what to tell you if you think that’s a bad thing. My response was the way it was because you somehow managed to misinterpret a movie that pretty much holds your hand the whole way

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The singing was hard to get through but the animation made up for literally anything that they could have dined

9/10. I’d give it the full 10 if it wasn’t for the whole pine-cone debacle.

Ya I think it’s a rather beautiful ending if I’m being completely honest. He doesn’t become a “real boy” physically but he experiences the joys of what it’s like to have a family, friends, as well as the pain that comes when those friends and family are no longer there with us and that’s about as “real” as you can get.

Puss in Boots fans are so annoying

Cate Blanchett killed it

He was pretty good in Otto, but absolutely awful in Elvis

Good movie, made cry like three time, which is not common at all, buuuut... In my opinion, the pacing was somewhat clunky and the song were not good enough.

I agree it's not for children. So many dead children in that movie.

Pinocchio didn't lie to save Geppetto and the others. He made a deal to be mortal so that he can quickly get back to save Geppetto and luckily save the others by activating the mine. Pinocchio and the others were in an unfavourable circumstance inside the sea monster but they weren't close to being dead.

An example I could give is you're in custody/jail waiting for trial vs you're moments away from getting the guillotine. Lying in the first circumstance is very different than the second.

Welp, I guess no Pinocchio for me until after my kid has a new nightmare.

Right?! I don’t get it.

I'm clearly in the minority but it just didn't do anything for me. I tried to stick with it, but it didn't pull me in whatsoever. The animation is well done, and I liked the art style quite a bit, but I didn't have the emotional reaction that many other people seemed to. Maybe I'll give it a go some other time, but as of now not my favorite from GDT.

> Pinocchio and the others were in an unfavourable circumstance inside the sea monster but they weren't close to being dead.

Ya I’m not gonna bother anymore, the movie makes it very clear that it is life or death for these characters.

Boomers. You meant Boomers.

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I was blown away. My dreams for the next two nights were very powerful.

Yeah definitely felt the same watching it, not for kids- which I appreciated. The fairy thing was creepy. Tbf the original Disney one was terrifying as a kid.

True the songs were pretty weak

Lol

She's the monkey!

> it really impressed me how much work and care went into the puppetry and sets

I got to visit the Laika exhibit, which had lots of puppets from their movies, and the amount of detail is just insane. Stop motion is a crazy cool art form.

I'm just gonna jump in here it was fun reading that little exchange. But it seems like an interesting take that you would find that to be a kids movie after watching it. My wife and I both found it to be definitely not a kids movie. Either way it's interesting how we can all see things different ways and hopefully we can remember that we are on reddit talking about a movie.

I thought it was fantastic. My big criticism is that Sebastian J. Cricket is supposed to kinda vouch for Pinocchio at the end of the film, but by that time they had barely been together. Sebastian kinda hangs out with Geppetto for the majority of the runtime.

Everything else: loved it. Was also super excited to see Patrick McHale's name attached, since I loved his work on Over the Garden Wall. He's able to balance silliness and super-dark themes very well.

Would you say it teaches kids to make deals with occult forces regarding your life? (Deal with the devil), and also if your son gets bombed by an airplane you can get really drunk and carve a wooden voodoo idol version of him and maybe an occult spirit will breathe life into it

Sebastian is always vouching for Pinocchio though, he defends him countless times throughout the movie. Just off the top of my head Sebastian gets very mad at Geppetto for calling Pinocchio a burden.

It was great becuase it was Pinocchio but really guillermo del toros Pinocchio. This is a story unlike what I expected to see. Really good job from everyone involved.

Honestly it might be my 2nd favorite (and 2nd best) Del Toro film after Pan’s Labyrinth

Was surprised this wasn't nominated for best picture honestly.

Next you'll tell me that Mel Brooks doesn't like Hitler.

There almost was an actual fascist Pinocchio. 1930s Italy commissioned an animated film that if finished would have beaten out Snow White for the first cel-animated feature film. Even if it was just fascist propaganda, it would have been extremely fascinating to compare this to Del Torro's on how they tackle fascist ideology.

> and made immortal again.

I don't think so. He's mortal at the end of the movie.

I hate them too, but this didn't feel like one.

It was 2 days with no meaningful interaction.

If you enjoyed the movie, great! I just couldn't.

I can understand you don’t like it. I just can’t see you not understanding that he had a change of heart.

In the sequel, Pinocchio accepts death is a natural part of life and understands his purpose, and spends his time forcibly helping people die so they can meet God.

To quote Honest Trailers, “It was Sieg Heilarious!” But in all seriousness I respect the time and effort that goes into stop motion and I think there was a really good story told with a lot of heart and realism. Definitely a film for the ages

The first song in the movie sort of sounded like a Charlie Day song from It’s Always Sunny:
My son, my son
you are my shining son.
You are my fav-or-ite fav-or-ite thing,
better than sunset, better than spring

It's a masterpiece and although I haven't seen that live-action Disney version, the first few minutes of Del Toro's film already exhibit more charm and emotions than anything I've seen of that soulless remake.

Best film for 2022 ( that I saw)

This movie was just ok for me.. I wish I liked it more..

Like many others, I can see the care that went in to creating this but it just failed to captivate me like it seems to have for the majority.. I also found the character development to be dubious..

I won't be mad when it wins best animated feature and although I didn't hate it, I personally thought Marcel the Shell and Puss in Boots were both better nominees from the animated feature category alone.

I thought the first half was paced really well but the 2nd seemed maybe a bit rushed. I have read they deleted a scene where Pinocchio was going to be killed via firing squad ( I kinda predicted this before it came out by comparing it to the Pinocchio anime, Mokku of the Oak Tree, where a similar scene occurs ). They opted to remove it because it was too dark and slowed things down ( which is kinda what I wanted tho lol ).

Still a worthy and unique interpretation. A somewhat peculiar criticism of mine with some of the other Pinocchios is how much of a dork he looks like when he’s transformed into a real boy, so I was very pleased with the final “twist” there.

Had the same, can't really pinpoint exactly why. It also felt really long.

Lol I know. I thought you were trying to be funny

Woah. I'm talking about one of the core themes of Pinocchio and how both 2022 movies violate its important theme to conveniently move the plot forward. I'm not here criticizing del Toro's creative liberties with the rest of the movie.

All 5 of Baz Luhrmann's past 5 movies have been nominated for an Oscar, including Mulin Rouge (another maximalist movie) getting a best picture nom.

I'm glad you included (2022) as I would have confused it with one of the other Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio movies.

I put the year the movie was released in on all of my posts.

lol

Felt the same way. Amazing stop motion work though.

I'm gonna be honest I was drunk and trying to be funny with that one. I think you make an interesting point.

The only thing that comes to mind right now would be, maybe it's trying to say that having a code of behavior is good, but there are instances when it is better to break your code of what you believe is right. Like that moment where he saved his family and friends by lying compared to someone with a rigid code like the podesta.