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AnythingToAvoidWork t1_jdilqj3 wrote

Reply to comment by ericools in NH House passes abortion-rights protections by IBlazeMyOwnPath

It begins when it can survive and become a healthy adult outside of the womb.

Before that it's a parasite.

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OccasionallyImmortal t1_jdiydia wrote

If the requirement to survive on their own is a requirement, then plenty of adults fail this test as well.

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FruityRogelio t1_jdjwx98 wrote

True. They have at least one of the necessary independent traits to survive, though, no? Independent heart/dependent lungs, vice versa. Brain function. Something. Machines can do a long but They cannot do everything. Mother does everything until delivery. Then it's up to the delivery from there. Birth/life begins at delivery

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OccasionallyImmortal t1_jdkofj7 wrote

The fetus has what it needs. It's just that those parts aren't working correctly yet, but they will in the future... like the adults. The fetus gets what it needs through a tube just as some adults are fed from a feeding tube or breathe from a respirator which pumps air into them.

Even a fetus taken out at 24 weeks can survive on life support just like an older adult. Delivery is irrelevant.

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XEssentialCryIceIs t1_jdjgqvk wrote

I think this is actually the best definition. Once it can maintain homeostasis organically, and I would argue without extreme interventions, it's a living individual. Until then, a fetus is no more a "person" than your liver is. Sure, it's living tissue, but it can't function or survive independent of the body it's attached to.

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largeb789 t1_jdiodk8 wrote

It's hard to classify a fetus as a parasite since it's of the same species.

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FruityRogelio t1_jdjwjqa wrote

Parasitic needs to persist better? I dig what you're saying.

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carpdog112 t1_jdivvdp wrote

So, conservatively 21 weeks?

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Glucose12 t1_jdj4yu0 wrote

Right around the time that brain waves typically can supposedly be found in a fetus/unborn(typically 25 weeks)

Which makes it consistent with the law in most states that affects whether or not a person(adult or not) is alive or dead. Do they have the full/usual complement of brain waves? If not, they're not alive in any way consistent with the law(s) affecting all other humans.

I think, FWIW, that always attempting to aim for legal consistency is a good thing. It lends greater credibility and enforceability. Having the legal system be a hodgepodge of inconsistent patchwork will always lead to social discontent/upset.

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carpdog112 t1_jdja9c7 wrote

All I'm saying is that viability has been demonstrated to be as early as 21 weeks. Drawing a line is obviously something that needs to be done, but it's a sticky wicket with continuously shifting standards.

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Glucose12 t1_jdjjzr4 wrote

21 weeks surprises me - how can the fetus/unborn survive outside of the womb if the brain isn't fully functional yet. Perhaps that 25-week wakeup of the brain isn't consistent, and can be earlier or later for some individuals?

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ericools t1_jdjlbjr wrote

So never for about half the population.

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FruityRogelio t1_jdjvzxd wrote

Completely agree. Finger wagging to say the verbiage will work against your argument, but it's true. Until it's independently surviving (breathing, with a pulse, and with self-sufficient metabolism), it is still an appendage/parasite/growth.

Edit: that leaves out in the cold a shot load of independent people that can't do those things, of course. But flopping into earth requires at least an independent pulse

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Double-Abalone7052 t1_jdrp4cu wrote

Exactly and I don’t have to host a parasite just like you don’t have to give up your kidney even if a living breathing person will die without it. Even if you died I still don’t have a right to make you give up your kidney for your child even if it will die without it. So I don’t have to host a parasite

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llambo17 t1_jditr8k wrote

>Before that it's a parasite

What an interesting view of life...

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AnythingToAvoidWork t1_jdiuvee wrote

It is what it is.

If it can't be removed from the mother and become a functional human why would you call it a human?

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FruityRogelio t1_jdjy1q3 wrote

That's exactly what it is. It's a biological lifeform requiring all metabolic function from its host.

Call it parasitic tendencies if it makes it seem less spooky to think about. The mother and father both hopefully love it as they will their potential future child. In the mean time, they regard it as nourishing, providing, gestation, etc.

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ThunderySleep t1_jdje75v wrote

Go drop a baby off in the middle of the woods without an adult caring for it and see how long it survives. Your comment is brain-dead, even for /r/newhampshire standards.

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FruityRogelio t1_jdjxwx6 wrote

Fwiw, Nordic cultures routinely leave infants outside for hours on end. They're wrapped up, etc. Not sure who you were responding to; new to reddit. Get your point, but if you're saying kids still need care that is true. Care =/= being biologically viable with said care

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