It still blows my mind that the US has the death penalty, it puts them in SUCH poor company, but they never seem to fully ditch it.

The US more than any other country can afford to securely house dangerous people for an indefinite period, and we all know that "deterrence" is a myth. Just... joint he rest of us in the developed world already!

And you just know the SCOTUS ruled that way (5-4) because of the concern that a Republican might have cause to challenge a sentence in Federal court.

To clarify, his lawyer was not allowed to tell the jury that his client would face life without parole if he weren’t sentenced to death. That is, the jury was prohibited from knowing that the death penalty was not necessary to prevent the possibility of his release. The state Supreme Court in a separate case later ruled that juries can be told. The condemned man has simply won the right to argue that that should have been an option in his case. The state did not even yet rule against him—instead they had ruled he had no right to make that argument and get a ruling. The Supreme Court in a 5-4 ruling across party lines has ruled that he can make his appeal.

Interesting. He challenged the sentencing in 2003 based on a 1994 Supreme Court ruling (basically his lawyer wanted the jury to know that if they chose a life sentence it was without parole, but the court wouldn't let the lawyer tell the jury that), but the Arizona Supreme Court claimed the Supreme Court ruling didn't apply in Arizona. In 2016 the Supreme Court ruled on a different case that it does apply in Arizona, so he challenged again, but this time the Arizona Supreme Court said he wasn't allowed to appeal because the Supreme Court ruling wasn't a "significant change in the law". Supreme Court says Arizona is wrong, he is actually allowed to appeal.

Glorifying violence is kind of our thing, though.

> it puts them in SUCH poor company,

We have massive wealth inequality, poor access to health care, our infrastructure is falling apart. We are an undeveloping nation.

It's an even more interesting ruling because the Arizona Supreme Court basically "nuh uh'd" an earlier USSC ruling under the claim that the ruling wasn't sufficiently different from precedent, even though the USSC ruling had negated an earlier, similar ruling elsewhere. AZSC said, "oh, it's not substantial because it modifies state law not federal law", and USSC just smacked them down on it. I'm honestly surprised that there was a -4 in this one because even the conservative justices probably don't want state courts negating their rulings.

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I mean we also don't believe in a general standard of care for non-criminals (universal healthcare, minimum living wage, decent public schools) so it's not that crazy.

Three of the five justices who voted for the majority were appointed by Democrat presidents. Sotomayor and Kagan are Obama appointees, and Jackson was appinted by Biden.

It's one reason I'll never visit there. Over here in Britain recently an active conversation has started about restoring the death penalty, politicians are endorsing it, and some polls put support way over 50%, so we can't try and claim the moral high ground.

Not all of America has the death penalty.

The United States still has the Federal death penalty, I think that the last time it was used was Timothy McVeigh for the Oklahoma bombing. It's rare, but it is still on their statute book.

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When you’re not in it for the law or reality, it’s fine to let State courts overrule the SC when the SC got forced to make a decision that could hamstring all states. Just the states that care about the rule of law would be hamstrung and your buddies won’t be use they’ll claim state law is differently experienced.

No worries though, if a state court said roe v wade still existed because the SC is compromised, they’d still pop back in to stop that.

Well you have to remember who those four are, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch and Barrett, who are all basically human ham steaks.

Yes, of course. All of the liberal justices supported the decision, it's a good policy. But without conservative votes, it wouldn't have passed.

Those four just sit there sounding like Beevis saying "Kill, Kill, Kill, Kill"

Tbh Coney Barrett looks like the sort who chants that when someone cuts her off in traffic!

Cold DEAD eyes.

It, like many other things, is determined by who is running the show.

Congress is too divided right now to pass a bill outlawing the death penalty, so it's often up to individual jurisdictions to decide what to do about it.

Before President Trump, there hadn't been a federal death penalty execution since 2003. But he carried out 13 executions during the last year or so of his term.

Other states have similar records. Technically California, one of the biggest and most liberal states, has the death penalty as an option still, but it hasn't been used in over 17 years at this point.

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You're right about there being a federal death penalty, but there have been 15 federal executions after McVeigh. Incidentally, 13 of those were under the Trump administration, more than any other administration in over 120 years, and breaking a 17-year period of no federal executions.

>the Arizona Supreme Court claimed the Supreme Court ruling didn't apply in Arizona.

In other words, the Arizona Supreme Court doesn't understand how the US Federal Justice System works.

Just wanted to mention the ruling wasn't across party lines - Kavanaugh and Roberts joined in.

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I was thinking that happened all at once, and I was right. Wikipedia says all of those occurred between July 14, 2020 and January 16, 2021.

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On the contrary, the Arizona Supreme Court knows exactly how the federal justice system works. They just don’t care.

And 4 out of 9 in SCOTUS don't neither.

Whichever side bans the death penalty loses the right wing entirely, as the right are the biggest defenders of it.

You know, the side the proclaims they follow Christ, the guy who was explicitly against killing?

You think you won an argument but you've only made yourself look like a moron. Just saying.

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No surprise at all that she wrote the dissent.

Edit: added link to decision.

Yes, there is still a federal death penalty. Trump made a point to get executions going and removed a moratorium. Thirteen federal inmates were executed during a sixth month period under Trump. Prior to the first execution in July 2020, the U.S. hadn’t executed anyone since 2003. As of July 2021, the moratorium was reinstated.

Considering the fact that 1 in 46 federal death penalty inmates have been exonerated, I’m glad we have the moratorium. It sickens me that our “justice” system allows innocent men and women to be kept in prison on technicalities. 1 in 46 we’re proven innocent. Think of how many are just as innocent but shit outta luck.

Which is really sad. Because there was a point there where we could have absolutely crushed it. It's like watching a football team that used to be really good but never closed the deal. And now it just stinks.

And honestly, he deserved it.

I'm generally against the death penalty, but if you are 100% guilty of a heinous crime like that, it doesn't bother me on a moral level. Honestly, I wish he got life in prison in solitary. That would be cruel and unusual, though. Which emotionally I'm ok with, but morally I'm not. So morally, the death penalty is the better option.

I’m curious, when do you consider that departure point to be, and what should we have done differently?

Oh no no no.14 men and one woman have been federally executed after McVeigh.

I think the civil rights movement was a huge turning point, but if we listened to the socialist messages of those leaders and took them seriously we would be a very different country right now.

Taxing it's citizens all across the world is also something the US does among poor company.

Death and taxes...

Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

Or, to quote Justice Elena Kagan:

>I think Kafka would have loved this. Cruz[the defendant] loses his Simmons claims on direct appeal because the Arizona courts say point-blank Simmons has never applied in Arizona. And then he loses the next time around because the Arizona courts say Simmons always applied in California. I mean, tails you win, heads I lose, whatever that expression is? I mean, how—how can you run a railroad that way?

(PDF Source)

Luckily only four.

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Kavanaugh does that a surprising amount of time for me. Like this was 5/4, he could have flipped it along with the other R-pointees, but didnt.

If you wouldn’t Jill him yourself, don’t impose the death sentence. Simple as.

This is, unfortunately, almost every state-level high court these days. They know the the federal government doesn't have real teeth to enforce anything, judicially, right now, so a lot of state courts are just flagrantly ignoring federal rulings.

Wait, Kavanaugh was the dissenter? Really? I figured it would have been Gorsuch of the 5.

Pretty fucking bizarre we've got a situation where 4 of the 9 Supreme Court judges are ok with saying "Nah you don't actually have to listen to the Supreme Court"

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No, this tracks. Kavanaugh seems to generally be in favor of USSC rules overriding states. This tracks. What’s surprising is that Gorsuch didn’t join the majority. That strikes me as odd.

Well, they’d have to, to be fair. Roe v. Wade gave women a federal right to have an abortion, in any state. When they struck Roe v. Waid down, the right to have an abortion just fell back to the states. In your example, if, say, New York argued Roe v. Wade still existed, would they be arguing that it existed in Texas? New Yorkers still have the right to abortion, but no state court in New York would be allowed to rule that Texas citizens also have that right.

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