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Useful idiots exist in every country, it seems.

Glad the German government and grand majority of German people are smarter than these protestors.

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Thousands you say. Was this in Berlin Wisconsin by chance? If this was in Germany then this is kind of clumsy to put on a news sub for American domestic news. It feels just desperate.

Can we get this title changed to be more accurate? Something like: "shitheads gather in berlin to show support for tyrannical dictator's illegal invasion".

Read the sub description...

"A demonstration against supplying Ukraine with weapons for war with Russia attracted 10,000 people on Saturday, drawing criticism from top German government officials and a large police presence to maintain order."

"Organised by a prominent left-wing German politician, the protest comes a day after the one-year anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which drew promises of more weapons from western allies, fresh sanctions against Russia and shows of support for Kyiv across the globe."

""We call on the German chancellor to stop the escalation of arms deliveries. Now!...Because every day lost costs up to 1,000 more lives - and brings us closer to a 3rd world war," the protest's organizers said on their website."

"The "Uprising for Peace" was organised in part by Sahra Wagenknecht, a member of Germany's left-wing Die Linke party."

"Germany, along with the United States, has been one of the biggest suppliers of weapons for Ukraine."

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From what I saw of the actual footage of the event, the vast majority of that 10,000 (if that number is even accurate) were counter-protestors, probably around 80-90%. Article is misleading bullshit.

Weasel wording in the article. Yes, that protest drew a large amount of people...but most were there to support Ukraine.

Are these "protesters" really that simple-minded and uneducated, or were they paid-off (including non-monetary rewards) to participate and spread their nonsense?

Second-hand shame.

I really wouldn't call Ms Wagenknecht left-wing. She's Putins bitch. Even her own party (Die Linke) hates her.

Hey, idiots. Remember the last time the former Russia visited Germany? I guess not.

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Wagenknecht is paid. Can't prove it, but it's the only explanation.

They probably miss the good ol’ days when they were the ones invading countries and committing genocide

You’re confusing two events that took place in Berlin on Friday and today.

There was a big rally on Friday in Berlin in support of Ukraine, the next day, there was this protest by a different group.

Just because we don’t agree with the protest, doesn’t mean that we need to make up stuff to downplay it.

The protest took place in Berlin, the capital of Germany, not a small town in Saxony. It has been reported by major news agencies like Reuters & the German news broadcaster Deutsche Welle. The German police also reported on the number of the protesters.

DW

> Police in Berlin said on Saturday afternoon that roughly 13,000 people had attended an event in central Berlin organized by a controversial socialist politician, Sahra Wagenknecht, and a prominent writer and feminist, Alice Schwarzer.

> The Rebellion for Peace rally organizers have received fierce criticism from many politicians, including Chancellor Olaf Scholz, who say the demonstration could weaken public support for Ukraine's fightback against Russia.

> Organizers had reckoned with a likely turnout in the region of 10,000 but police estimates exceeded these figures despite freezing temperatures and sleet. ..

> Saturday's rally follows a protest in solidarity with Ukraine, attended by some 10,000 people in Berlin on Friday night — the one-year anniversary of Russia's invasion.

You don't have to agree with it, but this is the stuff that makes the West infinitely better than Russia.

Is that a reference to AtomWaffen in your name? https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/atomwaffen-division

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No.

Waffen is german and means weapons.

My username translates to „monkeys with weapons".

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So they support Russia decimating Ukraine, then moving on to other countries such as Moldova and Poland?

Ah I understand

I guess these folks forgot what life was like to the East, back when there was an East and West Germany.

Berlin of all places on this planet should know better than to go for the appeasement route…

Authoritarian tyrants are all the same, they only speak one language, and there is only one possible solution to them.

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Those who do not know our history are doomed to repeat it….

This is a good take

We’re not pushing people out of windows……er I mean people having accidents.

Last time that happened it didn't end well

I mean, I’m all for freedom of speech - bully for these idiots - but I do wonder just how many of these screamers are the product of the tens of millions of rapes the Soviets committed in Germany? And how many remember that Stalin enthusiastically backed Nazi Germany when they were both exterminating Poles? Insane that any German could ever again side with Russia on anything…

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Well, we know who is getting paid off by Putin in Germany.

In The US you would only hear this every now and then but pretty isolated until Biden went to Ukraine, the far right seems to have now gone all in Pro-Putin now proving that its not really any of the points they actually disagree with but being anti-Biden.

Russians that were protesting the war were winding up in jail or killed. I am curious to know what happened to the antiwar Russian protest organizers. What did the State do to them?

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> I really wouldn't call Ms Wagenknecht left-wing

Sahra Wagenknecht is a well-known left-wing German politician. She was a member of Party of Democratic Socialism (PDS) since the 90s, before that party merged with another party to form the Left Party (Die Linke).

She is also the founder of Aufstehen, a left-wing collective movement.

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Smart moves on Biden then. The more he can get the far-right to outwardly be Pro-Russian, the more they push Independents (who are largely anti-Russia) and even some moderate Republicans towards backing Biden.

Such a dumb wedge topic for R’s to get behind.

For me, it's not anti-Biden so much as anti-war.

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Not necessarily. If these are authentic beliefs based on correct information, then sure, even bad opinions are part of Western democracy. OTOH, if these are based on foreign disinformation, governments need to do a better job shutting that down. And the organizers themselves should have a counter-intelligence investigation done on them, because some of them are literally paid by the Russian government.

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A US based example is Wyatt Reed, who is funded by the Russian government's Sputnik news, and "coincidentally" spoke against support for Ukraine at an "anti-war" rally. People have a right to express their opinions, but they don't have a right to engage in psychological warfare on behalf of foreign powers.

Sorry, good concerned person, I am going to disagree. We need to have faith in people to engage in conversation and figure out, "Oh wait, I am being hoodwinked." I don't care whether they are being manipulated because corporate media is manipulating us constantly.

Once we get into dangerous ideas of how we should regulate free speech, whether funded by outside organizations or not, then that is when we are no different than them.

Oh, I know her (I am German). And she might have had good ideas and done good in the past. But like many other's, since Covid she took a deep dive down the wrong rabbit hole.

I get peace activists want peace but what's the alternative to ensuring Ukraine can fight Russia? Allowing Russia to conquer Ukraine? Doesn't that set a precedent for even more conquest?

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You are a left wing authoritarian wanting to restrict free speech. Don’t want government deciding what is misinformation

Yes, Germany is a democracy and their citizens can protest against protecting themselves against Putin invading Germany one day...🤦🏻‍♀️

Neither do I. However, unregistered foreign agents should be strictly forbidden. They're just a more boring version of spies, which all reasonable agree should be illegal.

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If you aren't personally taking money from foreign agents to run influence campaigns, this won't affect your ability to say crazy stuff even a little.

What about corporate media, which makes millions from adverts from Big Pharma, and kept completely quiet while much of the Industrial Mid West was wracked by Opiod related deaths. Or when corporate media influenced the entire population to go to war in Iraq, because the government said so? That is a paid entity that misinforms people constantly to serve their purposes. Let's start there before we play 1984 with these "Russian Agents."

Foreign disinformation? Most disinformation comes from our own government. Remember #Russiagate?

This makes no sense. Why would Russia invade Germany?

Yes it makes total sense to be pro invading country when you have an anti war stance…

They dead

Truly a nothing burger.

Eastern Germany was never properly de-nazified like the west was. So after the unification you had hundreds of thousands of fascism sympathizers who saw themselves as victims rather than collaborators metastasize the country.

Why would Russia invade Afghanistan? Why would Russia invade Ukraine? Why would Russia invade the Baltic States? Why would Russia invade Poland? Putin invaded Ukraine in part because he's counting on fools like you failing/refusing to do anything but sit back and watch him gobble up Europe.

Doing menial military tasks on/near the front until they're called up to the meatgrinder

Each one of these responses gets worse. Just disappeared, that is scary. Meanwhile, these Germans protestors probably go home and enjoy Bratwursts, beer, and a Bundesliga game.

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Right, at least they can protest (I kinda see this as more an anti-war/stop the killing protest rather than an Pro-russia protest). But even putting flowers on a statue in russia will get you thrown in the gulag, or worse.

You sound like every other warmonger. "We had no other choice than to join a fight that has nothing to do with us".

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Ukraine is a sovereign democracy we are allied with being invaded by a totalitarian regime with imperial ambitions.

You sound like the cursed love child of a Stalinist Tankie and a MAGA white-supremacist.

So where is the political home for pacifists these days now the green party is pro war?

Is categorical pacifism still an allowed position to take?

Our ties with Ukraine dictate we send billions in cash and weapons to them? Oh right, I forgot...aMeRiKa fUcKyEaH!!

Anti West tankies created by online disinformation and indoctrination. Maybe a few genuine older generation peace hippies but not many.

That is generally how alliances work when one is invaded yes.

some of them signed a petition giving their names and addresses right? Maybe they should be, "visited".

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You think that NATO will sit back and refuse to engage Russia directly if they invade a member country? That’s literally WWIII, a war that Russia cannot win. They can only nuke the planet, and in that scenario, everyone loses. If you think Putin is so crazy to do that, you’ve been watching too many Marvel movies.

Ukraine isn't a strong allie, just a convenient one; enemy if our enemy. So hey, let's keep that machine moving until nukes start flying, right! Right?

Fucking idiots if it wasn't for NATO Putin would be marching from Ukraine to Warsaw to Berlin.

Wtf are you on about, nukes?

You still haven’t answered why taking Putin’s side makes you anti war. Most likely either your dear leaders in the Republican Party told you or the Stalin voice in your head did.

Who else? Damn near everyone around is in nato?

Good, I’m glad they congregate to be identified

Like in Florida?

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They won WW2?

You are assuming way too much about me personally. Being anti-war doesn't doesn't make me pro or anti, this side or that; I'm not for whatever is going on between Russia, Ukraine, NATO. But that's me.

Right, NATO, I forgot! Why aren't they just rising up and kicking Putin's teeth in? Maybe it has to do with nukes? You know, the things that level entire cities and contaminates countries? Putin has them...incase you didn't know.

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I'll take "incredibly stupid questions" for 100, Ken.

That is true

Yeah, that logic don't work. See also: Jill Stein.

You are essentially just arguing that you wish war didn't exist. I also wish guns didn't exist, but they do, and so does war. Not every neighboring county can be convinced to put down their weapons and please don't invade us. War is necessary if the other side refuses to cease their incursions. We would be morally bankrupt if we allowed for allied countries to just get crushed by authoritarians.

Yes nukes are a reason that NATO hasn’t committed ground troops to Ukraine, but geopolitical realities pertaining to trade relations with China, alliances with India, and Turkey being a NATO member state are way more reason that ground troops haven’t been committed.

Nukes are a non factor as far as us supplying materiel and financial support for Ukraine, Putin is not dumb enough to use them for any other reason then a Hail Mary if the very survival of Russia is threatened.

Then why not invade now? Wars can have more than one front and that move would force the West to ask its people for more than just their money. If Russia is willing to incur Article 5, then why not now?

Because NATO, obviously. But in the meantime, Putin has been trying to undermine and cause NATO to break apart for years, and the poster above you said "one day."

This isn't tricky.

Edit: Also "why not now" well Russia's somewhat revealed itself to be militarily incompetent. Even without NATO it would make no sense to invade *now*, since they'd fail even more miserably than they are in Ukraine. The point still stands about the future, however.

The US blowing up Nordstream II is undermining NATO. Russia poses no realistic risk to NATO, and more than it does to any human who wants to take his chances after nuclear war.

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Crushed? They're putting up a good fight and holding onto a great deal of their country. Eventually they will join NATO and if Putin try's this shit again it will be WW3. Or the US can escalate it.

You're saying the quiet part loud. Any proof about the Nordstream explosion?

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> OTOH, if these are based on foreign disinformation, governments need to do a better job shutting that down.

Everything is based on disinformation, both the west and the Russians have been engaging in widespread propaganda efforts. You only need to see the amount of "Putin has cancer, he's about to die" "there's about to be a Putin coup" on the worldnews subreddit to see that the propaganda is flowing copiously from both sides.

The maga rights entire existence is based around "owning the libs." I don't even think there is a point to be made about anything they argue for. It has devolved from outdated thinking to just anti leftwing to the point that they would watch the world burn before giving anything bipartisan support. The right has killed itself by letting Trump infect it.

It's almost as if a strong alliance is worth investing in. If Russia takes Ukraine, China will take Taiwan. I doubt Russia would stop at Ukraine as well. The world would end up in WW3 almost certainly if we let that happen. What we are doing now is the best way to STOP WW3

That's still Die Linke, mostly. Or take a pick of a smaller party, there are plenty. That stance is not forbidden, by any means.

Categorial pacifism would be nice, but can only work when everyone adheres to it. Sadly, there are enough dickheads in high places to take advantage and try to dominate everyone.

For anyone, really.

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Well, the president literally said that the US was going to do it, and our ambassador to the UN said that she was happy that it happened, so I guess common sense? What would convince you?

They must all be under 30.

If this would prevent WW3 as you say, why not do something more than send cash over there? Weapons help. Troops help. If it's anything like the COVID PPP loans it will go to the wrong people. You have more faith in the govt than I.

>Bratwursts

Don't you mean Schnitzengruben? ;)

Siberia is experiencing a population boom

>Well, the president literally said

Go on, show me.

not hard to find

No thank you, I have a limit on how many Schnitzengruben my hypothetical Marxist German protesters can eat.

"U.S. President Joe Biden said on Monday that the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline would be halted" "said Russian forces crossing into Ukraine would trigger a shutdown."

So not literally.

Blowing it up it a shutdown, now you are arguing in bad faith. He said “bring an end to it” not “shut it down for a while”.

Word games are cope

Not to mention the credibility of the reporter who broke the story, but I don’t want to trigger you further

Nope, try again.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germanys-scholz-halts-nord-stream-2-certification-2022-02-22/

It's called diplomacy. "Shut down" means shut down.... which happened that same month, a year ago. Whatever happened to the pipeline 6 months later is still in question, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that the US did it, since it was already shut down at that time.

He said “bring an end to it” dumbass and why would the us let Russia sell oil to NATO countries, raising money to fund their war effort? What is wrong with you?

Even in a world where you believe this is a noble war, it’s good strategy. If you don’t think the us did it I’d wonder why you don’t think our leadership is doing a terrible job.

That's the diplomacy part, and why Germany didn't authorize its usage. Or did you miss that part?

"Even in a world where you believe this is a noble war, it’s good strategy"

Not really, since a pipeline not in use due to diplomacy is better than clandestine sabotage of said pipeline in allied waters, especially if it could be a future asset. Russia's fuel is no longer a money maker in Europe, job done.

But wait, you said something about arguing in bad faith after I asked for evidence?

We are sending weapons, though... It's hard to keep a country that is being invaded somewhat functional without an influx of money as well. Ukraine is one of the largest grain producers in Europe, if I remember correctly, which is pretty important.

I am sure there is some corruption at some level as would be with any system, but we can clearly see the outcome of our investment. Ukraine is holding its own against Russia, and the Ukrainian people are still holding strong thanks to a coordinated effort from the US and our allies.

>Crushed? They're putting up a good fight and holding onto a great deal of their country.

Exactly BECAUSE we are sending them aid.

Nothing to do with us? Do you really think letting Russia run rough-shod over all their old territories not a part of NATO wouldn’t come back to hurt us? Or the West in general? Dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t. I’d rather help Ukraine and send a message to Russia that they can’t just invade their neighbors without consequence. And that they can’t just expect the world to capitulate to their every demand when threatened with nukes.

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Biden didn’t say we were going to blow it up, he was saying that he would block its use. Which he did by selling Germany American natural gas at a subsidized rate.

Germans that don’t know their own history. We already know what happens when the world let’s a country invade their neighbors 1 by 1.

If tomorrow Biden said that no more aid should go to Ukraine, within minutes the maga crowd would be pushing for more aid to be sent.

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So an anti-war left really does exist.

Just not in the USA.

"Oh man, those Schnitzengruben really wipe a man out. What's happening in the Cleeeean world?"

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Keep in mind that the population of Berlin is 3.6M. "Thousands" is not a very big or representative crowd.

They also did a lot of raping.

Our country has been doing shit in the background for years, don't fool yourself. Our media won't touch it because they know better. Wait 15 years and I promise you'll be dumbstruck by the bs we've been doing when it becomes public. Not saying I support Russia. I want to see Putin hang.

This is the President of a country directly ordering the murders of journalists and political rivals.

Your point on the US, UK, France, etc committing war crimes and evil acts both historically and presently is absolutely true tho 👍🏼

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They are putting up a good fight because the world is aiding them. You just proved everyone's point.

We have literally pledged allegiance with Ukraine and have vowed to defend them. Remember when the one thing the Trimp administration had changed in the RNC charter was to remove Republican support from the pledge to defend Ukraine? I do. You're playing right into their fascist hands.

Exactly. For this war, peace is appeasement.

Moldova would be next if Ukraine falls.

I'd like to take a peek at the financials of the organizers; especially the far left wing person that set it up. I'm all about free speech in any country, but the 9,999 sheeple that are in tow on these talking points should be confident on who's selling them before taking a stand.

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So because they aren't strong enough to survive on their own, Putin (and the modern Russian Empire) has the right to invaded them and threaten the world with nukes?

Oh yeah, you seem totally pro-peace. Not defending an aggressor whatsoever. /S

Which OP wants to end, this ensuring they can't put up a good fight and instead get ethnically cleansed and incorporated into Putin's Russia by force.

Crimea already set that precedent. This response is the world telling Putin that enough is enough. Personally, I think we should crush Russia right now.

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Were acting like Ukraine boarders are our boarders. If that's the case, why aren't we taking this more seriously and mobilizing our own trillion dollar military? That's why we spend so much right? If Russia is such a threat let's treat it like one.

Exactly. Herr Hitler only wants to protect the Sudetendeutschen. He would be never stupid enough to attack Poland.

So... now you want to invade Russia?

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We had a story running in Canada that Putin shit his pants. I kid you not. It's like that is clearly propaganda and even if it did happen why is it news?!??? It's like running the bucktoothed japanese bugs bunny to mock them during WW2.

People have given their lives so that these people have the right to do this.

Not even mad.

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So apparently a lot of them are either Russian immigrants, or remnants of the East Germam political parties that leaned heavily towards Russia. The only reaso. You don’t see a lot of Soviet flags and Nazi stuff like at other protests is that the police were confiscating them.

You need to think that through a little. I’m not a fan of nuclear Armageddon.

Agreed. I see a lot of Ukrainian flags outside the houses of everyday conservative people. They may never flip Democratic, but they will definitely get pissed and stay home.

So what’s the appropriate response to one country invading and destroying another without a reason? What do we do when they invade the next country in line?

People might take you a bit more seriously if you didn’t jump from one argument to another when confronted with a little pushback.

There are a ton of “expat” Russians lobbing in Germany. Enjoying the west freedom but still “loving” Russia.

Don't you want to arm Ukraine so their citizens fight Russia instead of your own? makes sense to me if i was a leader

Yeah this is reddit so there are several arguments and may sound mixed up. These are all just opinions from internet know-it-alls anyways.

Makes me iffy on Putin’s support ratings in Russia. People are probably just afraid to fall out of windows

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German Finance Minister: "Whoever does not stand by Ukraine is on the wrong side of history,"

I think most of the world agrees.

Germans are very well aware of their history because the world keeps reminding them...I think it is because of thatand that they are afraid of ww3.

Sweden has the evidence, ask them. Tell us how Russia did it. How did they evade detection so close to a NATO country's shore? Shouldn't that be causing a shake-up in NATO naval defense?