Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

proudfootz t1_jdj3nmu wrote

Meanwhile Syrian bases in the US have been quiet.

25

Cobby1927 t1_jdi18s2 wrote

Take out manufacturing in Iran

19

piTehT_tsuJ t1_jdkr0dl wrote

Take out the drone manufacturing and its parts supply and Russia wouldn't have drones to kill civilians in Ukraine with and the Iranian backed militias would be affected as well.

Kill two birds with one stone.

9

M142Man t1_jdjip1h wrote

There's about to be a bunch of dead Iranian troops.

17

mufon2019 t1_jdjlh7s wrote

I’ve always wondered how the he’ll the US has airbases in a non friendly country?

15

mainegreenerep t1_jdjq4hd wrote

Syria is basically three countries now with no clear internationally recognized legitimate government. We're super friendly with one of the sides, and they invited us in.

59

mufon2019 t1_jdjshfw wrote

Excellent. Thanks for that very simple explanation!

18

tandemxylophone t1_jdlkmxs wrote

Isn't that pretty much a justification anyone can use?

Pretty much the entire history of US invasion was alliancing with the opposition and make them rise to power.

Russia can say they are getting rid of Nazis in Ukraine, and if they kill enough Ukrainians they are left with a pro-Russian population and all that's left is to get recognised by the Western biased International law.

−7

Antique-Scholar-5788 t1_jdnjg5p wrote

Yes, Americans fighting ISIS is the same as Russians committing genocide against Ukrainians.

Tankie logic.

5

tandemxylophone t1_jdocl8u wrote

The US isn't in Syria to fight ISIS. That's what the media says because its what the Western people care about (ISIS wouldn't have risen if the West back troops haven't supported the opposition into a civil war). They are there to fight a proxy war to get military alliance within the region. The US wants to get rid of the Pro-Assad, Pro-Russia team at all costs, even though they know their strategy to win will also end up in genocide of the Alawites.

Pretty much the war strategy of destabilisation absolves responsibility of any consequences that come from doing that, including the rise of ISIS. It absolved them from Iraq, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Haiti, Vietnam, Cuba, Venesuela, and El Salvador. So why is this any different?

And I'm not saying Russia is better, but that the a lot of people here don't understand the crimes committed by the US can be similarly abhorrent. Noam Chomsky also described that Sanctions are not ethical (due to the damage it does to civilians), but mostly used as a power play of the strong. The "International law" is not run on ethics, but the justice of the alliance who has the most power.

Right now a lot of people agree with the "law" because its an agreeable ally. Nobody will recognise a war crime the West has done until Russia, Iran, or China will do the exact same thing.

My point is, so many people here still has a notion of ethics and absolute justice in the US's motives and actions. They speak the legality instead of the power dynamics. I'm just suspicious of someone who believes in absolute justice for wars.

2

howie117 t1_jeamma9 wrote

Who said anything about ISIS? Why dont you tell that to the 1 million dead civilians killed by americans in the middle east. Why not critisize both russia and america for being genocidal terrorist war mongers?

1

Antique-Scholar-5788 t1_jechjz8 wrote

Source: trust me bro

1

howie117 t1_jed7fi8 wrote

"The U.S. post-9/11 wars have forcibly displaced at least 38 million people. At least 929,000 people have been killed by direct war violence in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, and Pakistan."

  • Watson Institute, Brown University

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human

1

Antique-Scholar-5788 t1_jee1qfx wrote

Solid example of manipulating data for propaganda purposes.

Those numbers include such data as civilian deaths in the Syrian Civil War and US citizen/military death.

The US Middle East wars were obviously a mistake, but the US military didn’t target civilians. Equating that to what Russia is doing (or China by the CCP), and using whataboutism to justify it, is despicable.

1

howie117 t1_jefaq4b wrote

> Solid example of manipulating data for propaganda purposes.

lol, you mean from the US based Watson Institute and Brown University?

Why is one war worse than the other? Iraq/Afghanistan war even has more casualties. The whole world knows that both Russia and USA are warmongering terrorist nations. Why not condemn both for the wars and mass death? Or is it all about american exceptionalism? Every other nation in the world sees through the clear hypocrisy of americans.

1

Antique-Scholar-5788 t1_jefb6xj wrote

Nah, I mean claiming that US troops killed 1 million people, and then citing a source that definitely does not say that.

1

gc11117 t1_jdlr0qr wrote

So, for what it's worth in the case of Syria

>Isn't that pretty much a justification anyone can use?

Everyone IS using this justification. Iran's in there, Russia is in there, Israel is in there, and probably other foreign nations as well that I'm drawing a blank on. It's a free for all shit show.

2

Alioshia t1_jdlwngq wrote

America will never recognize pro-Russian anything.

1

tandemxylophone t1_jdmxuyk wrote

Pretty much my point. A lot of these war justification seems to lie not on an Internationally agreed definiton of invasion, but whether if you are allianced with the US or not. And "Internationally Recognised" is just who has power, not whether there's any ethical justification to it.

The West sends their military overseas to support a non-governmental faction-> Heroic democracy savers. Freedom fighters. Heroic murder.

Anyone else I disagree does it -> Terrorists and forces of evil that violate every single human right code out there.

I'm not saying anyone should be proud for killing others, but that there is some huge hypocrisy in that the West don't recognise their military endeavour of committing war crime isn't a war crime but simply a rewritten history.

4

this_dudeagain t1_jdn410h wrote

It's not a justification it's just the facts on the ground. Comparing it to Ukraine is ridiculous. Very different conflicts.

1

tandemxylophone t1_jdoelew wrote

Facts and legality is also backed by power, not ethics. Yes, it is fact, but the US also absolves itself from illegally invading Iraq because they make the rules. So many here say facts because it legitimises questionable practices behind that may get criticised.

If China convinces most dictator driven African countries to support that Taiwan is part of China, will you accept it as fact if over 50% agree to it? If China was the one in power, will you accept their legal definition of who is a terrorist? I don't think anyone is good, just that nobody wants to admit their side is evil too.

3

[deleted] t1_jdjoe36 wrote

[deleted]

−50

mechanicalcontrols t1_jdkb19y wrote

I'm pretty sure this site is full of people who love nothing more than to criticize the US. And furthermore, any possible situation you could name in the Middle East is more nuanced than "West bad."

20

waiver t1_jdn5in3 wrote

Whenever somebody uses "West Bad" as a defense that means their limited brains cannot accept that sometimes America is in the wrong, and they are not smart enough to argue against that.

1

this_dudeagain t1_jdn4gcu wrote

Trolls really out in force today.

−1

waiver t1_jdn5667 wrote

Enlighten me, how do you call installing military bases and moving troops into countries that didn't invite you? What other word besides "invasion" is there for that?

3

this_dudeagain t1_jdn67jl wrote

I donno why delete your comment if you were making such a great point.

−1

waiver t1_jdn6eg6 wrote

So what would you call that? Keep focused dude.

1

SirGlenn t1_jdj9c7n wrote

To use a line from an old song: since 1916, they've been fighting!

1

[deleted] t1_jdicih0 wrote

[deleted]

−3

Inconceivable-2020 t1_jdjoqas wrote

Maybe the US should either take the gloves off, or leave.

−4

[deleted] t1_jdhxog8 wrote

[deleted]

−22

GinTonicDev t1_jdi7wzc wrote

Thats what happens if you have soldiers involved in conflicts all over the world.

5

[deleted] t1_jdi2idg wrote

[removed]

−29

[deleted] t1_jdiiko6 wrote

[removed]

16

billpalto t1_jdhznqj wrote

We did nothing after the Saudis destroyed the World Trade Center on 9/11. We protected them, let them leave the country, won't unseal the documents that show their collusion with the terrorists.

But we did invade Iraq, for some odd reason. Of course, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Here we are retaliating against Iranian-backed groups. So we made allies of those who attacked us (Saudis), and made enemies of those who have never attacked us here in the US (Iran).

Weird.

−31

pegothejerk t1_jdi0wd0 wrote

Iran has attacked us soldiers and interests a shit ton outside the US, they rely heavily on proxy wars to get their displeasure with us across as well. Anyone who thinks Iran has never attacked the US hasn't been paying attention. Mostly they are pissed at our efforts to keep them from developing and setting lose in terror circles nuclear arms. We cripple them with sanctions to punish their efforts on that front and in their military support and strikes against our own bases, soldiers, and those of our allies and interests.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93United_States_relations

65

tandemxylophone t1_jdllpim wrote

Iran does it, but US also does a tonne of proxy war as well. The US's favourite tactic overseas is destabilise by funding the opposition. China's is offer loans to crippled dictators in exchange for military amd economic beneficial agreement. Iran's is also destabilisation (Soleimani was very fond of this) by funding their Islamic allies, considered terrorists by the US.

Pretty much anyone who chose destabilisation devastared that country, because all they did was destroy the system (Libya, Iraq, Lebanon) without something else to replace it with.

We also have to be careful of abusing Sanctions as a weapon of war because it's it relies on the US being a superpower and having alliance. African countries are alliancing with China now because they don't know if their dictator will be replaced by US next. There'll be a time when the voice of Sanction may flip to China's interest, rather than the US.

1

billpalto t1_jdi1gwn wrote

No Islamic terrorist attack in the US has come from Iran, they almost all came from Saudi Arabia.

−41

decomposition_ t1_jdi4tiu wrote

Yes, you are making a point that the other guy isn’t talking about. If you wanna cherry pick and make some niche argument then yes, Iran hasn’t done what you’re saying. But if you want to be reasonable and pragmatic, Iran has caused the deaths of many US service members and acted directly against American interests countless times.

This is like trying to make a point that Ted Bundy never killed anyone in Vermont when the conversation is about serial killers.

39

billpalto t1_jdi8q7p wrote

I was just pointing out how odd it seems to me that one country has attacked us here at home, multiple times, and we made allies of them.

Another country has never attacked us here at home, and we call them the enemy.

−28

WirelessBCupSupport t1_jdi8qpn wrote

Do your history study on Arabs. It will explain alot.

"Its business. If it wasn't, there would be knife in your back".

4

Keylime29 t1_jdk5b62 wrote

The attacks are more cyber style and are financial and political than any religious motivation. (That is my understanding)

0

CriticalMembership31 t1_jdk04d4 wrote

The nationality thing is always so funny to me, like are people really this simple that they think countries are responsible for the actions of their citizens? By this logic, New Zealand should have gone after Australia after the Christchurch terrorist attack.

0

Giftwrapfromhell t1_jdihsf6 wrote

Surely Reddit will support banning the United States from the Olympics because we are occupying Syria right?

−47

BigbunnyATK t1_jdis10z wrote

Point is, the situation is more complicated than you make it out to be. There are rarely good and bad guys in war. Much of our involvement in the Middle East isn't necessarily bad, but some of it is. I haven't found more on Syria just yet, but here's a somewhat detailed post on being in the Middle East in general:https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnAmerican/comments/qtvqaf/why_did_the_us_originally_go_to_the_middle_east/

"America bad" isn't an opinion. You have to say "America bad because..." and follow the ellipses with something that I can read and say, "Woah, America bad." See, America bad is a conclusion not a reason. If you really want to talk geopolitics you have to use the overall picture to convince people.

Edit: Some source on recent Syria related news. Seems the USA is in some of these countries to keep Russia from gaining massive control over the oil supply of the world. Russia messed with many of the same countries that the USA messes with. Whether you think the USA should intervene or not is up to you. From a geopolitics standpoint I say it should. If it didn't, Russia would go uncontested and control massive swaths of the oil supply. I wouldn't say it's moral to be in other countries killing people for resource control, but I'd also say that allowing a country with a tyrannical leader like Putin to go uncontested isn't moral either.
https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/gdwbj3/what_is_us_involvement_like_in_syria_as_of_2020/

5

Betterchicken9 t1_jdjtrzu wrote

This is like saying because one side is raping and pillaging the world we can do so also lol. Even then you paint a really awful and disingenuous picture. We are involved in far more global conflicts than any other country in the world by far. This country only engages in conflicts for its own self interest and they make that very clear.

−1

BigbunnyATK t1_jdkj96n wrote

I don't understand what you've brought to the table. I link the USA's reasons for going to a war, or at least some small snippet of it, and you post "wrong and fake." As I understand it, our war in Afghanistan was to make an ally. Afghanistan had already had horrible leadership issues because Russia helped install units that would be pro Russia. We came in later to both clear the Russian influence and to help Afghanistan. We spent billions to help them build schools and infrastructure and to give them a voted democracy. It failed. But how can you sit from your computer seat and say what soldier's gave their lives for was wrong? War is complicated but don't pretend the USA as a monolith is some pure evil organization. We've had our hands in stopping several genocides. You know, Saddam Hussein against the Kurds. Japan against South East Asia (especially China). It's not like we're a country full of fantasy heroes who do no wrong, but if you think the mindset of America is pure evil you haven't seen anything of this world. We are sending billions to Ukraine, too. Would you rather they get toppled and raped and murdered by Russia? And if China attacks Taiwan, we'll be there, too. You take a simple view of a complex topic, and worse you take a simple view of a complex topic which has taken lives. Come back with a formed opinion based on historical fact and knowledge, and we can speak.

4

Betterchicken9 t1_jdlbd4h wrote

Yes I can easily sit behind my computer screen and critique those amazing soldiers you’re describing bc they fucked up. 2 trillion dollars spent on that war just for the taliban to take it over in two weeks lol. We sent soldiers there and terrorized those poor people. We gave them a reason to hate us. Huge waste of tax payer money and human lives. we ended up legitimizing them bc of all the horrible things we ended up doing. Things like this type of shit where we killed a random person and 7 children. This type of junk constantly goes unpunished by our govt. how would this make you feel if this was your children who died and the person who authorized it went about unpunished?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/13/us/politics/afghanistan-drone-strike.html

This is just one of countless stupid senseless killings we do in these countries. An absolute disregard for human life.

https://youtu.be/kelmEZe8whI

This one is even better. I hope you watch this video and learn something from it.

Brother most of that money we gave them never even left Kabul.

US military industrial complex is the most evil thing I can possibly think of. We are a cancer to the rest of the world.

We could’ve cared less about saddam Husseins genocide on the Kurds. if we actually cared about the human beings living there we wouldn’t have illegally invaded them and killed 500k-2 million people.

We stop genocides when they’re convenient to us. We also support genocides when they’re convenient to us as well.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/the-indonesia-documents-and-the-us-agenda/543534/

We also support ethnic cleansing and apartheid by giving Israel military aid.

War is not very complicated. War is evil. That’s not something very complex. A 5 year old could understand this.

My guy we are giving billions of aid to what was noted as the most corrupt nation in Europe. This kinda tells me everything about you. You fail to understand the huge fuck up we caused in Afghanistan and you are failing to see the huge fuck up we are causing in Ukraine. Billions of dollars worth of aid being given to Ukraine just for it to laundered out while refusing to negotiate a peace deal. It’s just laughable. You just want to keep feeding the war machine.

You’re making this weird bogeyman of Russians coming to rape and kill Ukrainians if we don’t throw money at them. You don’t understand that we can also just advocate for peace talks You just seem like a warmonger.

If China attacks Taiwan why should we have any say in the conflict? It’s literally non of our business. We could care less about Taiwan we just want them so we can put bases closer to China.

You are projecting in you’re last statement. You have been infected with our major propaganda system. You actually believe we are the hero’s in this world when we only get involved with global conflicts if we think we can make money off of it or if it benefits the military industrial complex.

There is nothing complex about not idolizing, worshipping or respecting the soldiers that illegally invaded Afghanistan or Iraq and left with possibly millions of afghans and Iraqis dead. I don’t know why this has to be explained to you.

1

BigbunnyATK t1_jdn6isr wrote

First, you not wanting to send money and weapons to Ukraine to fight against Russia and saying Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe, already shows that you're some Russian incel lol. That's only a Russian talking point. Ukraine is fighting for their country, Russia is fighting to take it and losing horribly because Russia is led by pathetic, weak leaders. I would happily send more and more weapons to Ukraine until Russia is at its knees without Moldova nor Crimea.

Also, you've given a completely non-expansive view of what the Afghanistan war was about. You fail to include the view that, if we left all things alone, Russia would control most of the world's oil. To you that's just an acceptable outcome and we shouldn't stop it. Russia was already doing proxy wars in these countries, so the USA stepped in to stop Russia. "War is bad" isn't an answer. War is bad but happens for a reason.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War

Funniest among your claims, the US did invade Iraq with UN permission. So it was a legal war. It was later decided there hadn't been enough evidence, but later is too late. The justification for the war: we went on the assumption that they had WMD which Saddam loved to brag about. We went because he was casually using chemical weapons on villagers, genociding the Kurds. And we went because he was breaking peace treaties casually. The reason for going to the war is more likely to make allies in the middle east, to supplant the current governments with Democracies, but the justification were as previously said. Russia, on the other hand, did start an illegal war.

Also, if China attacks Taiwan we'd 100% support them and probably send ground troops. They manufacture a huge chunk of our microchips and the other huge chunk is made in ... China. So you know, 'war is bad' doesn't really suffice again. Also which country are you from? I hope you're not an American with this simple view? I am 90% sure you're Russian with that Ukraine BS.

The funniest thing, though. I don't claim to support the long war in the middle east. I do intend to understand it instead of whine like you. Apparently the illustrious US leaders thought we'd be supported with open arms by the Iraqis after quelling Saddam Hussein, but this was BS. We wanted to make a massive ally out of the middle east, and so sent troops to stabilize the region and create Democracies. It was a foolish war, and a foolish war leads to death like any other war. The American people were tricked into thinking it was a necessary war, but I doubt it really was, and in retrospect many would agree with me. Nonetheless, the reasons to go to the middle east were convincing at the time, and people wanted to create a world where Saddam didn't get his genocidal hands on nukes.

2

Betterchicken9 t1_jdnegzy wrote

I would rather advocate for a peace talks as opposed to fighting to the last Ukrainian. Disagreeing on this concept makes you a warmonger.

Russia controlling the worlds oil....who cares? Most of Europe is going through a huge energy crisis after sanctioning them even though they left Afghanistan. So we can't let Russia control Afghanistans oil but we can? So then you agree we were there to steal their resources? Heyyy Russia is killing people and committing proxy wars in Afghanistan so its totally okay for us to do the same? Weird.

We literally helped him with his use of chemical weapons.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/08/26/215733981/new-details-on-how-u-s-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran

https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/iran-pursues-german-companies-that-gave-saddam-hussein-chemical-weapons/

Sending troops thousands of miles away from you homeland and killing thousands of people is not how you establish a democracy. Killing world leaders and installing a puppet dictatorship is how we make allies in the region.

Literally the last democratically elected president Iran had was removed and replaced with a puppet dictator in 1953. We did this on the behalf of BP. We later replaced that dictator with the ayatollah lol. Then we sanction the people of Iran for having a brutal dictatorship. A dictatorship that we installed. This is not the first country we have done this too. Please do not fall for the silly propaganda we go in these regions to install democracies. Especially after killing hundreds of thousands of them.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/16/iraq.iraq

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/23/the-lack-of-legality-in-the-us-led-invasion-of-afghanistan

It was an illegal invasion.

We would absolutely support Taiwan because we are run by warmongers similar to yourself. War is bad does suffice. It is not complicated. You would be willing to go to war because of... microchips??? IF we stopped deindustrializing we wouldn't even to worry about that. We don't need to go to any wars we just need to usher in peace talks. Something China has been doing.

https://time.com/6262985/china-saudi-arabia-iran-ukraine-peace-talks/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/21/putin-welcomes-chinas-controversial-proposals-for-peace-in-ukraine

Does it matter where I am from? You think I'm Russian because I want diplomacy in Ukraine?

If you actually understood the war you would be whining instead of warmongering. Yeah it was just a silly war where we killed hundreds of thousands of people. whoops!

War leads to death I am glad you understand this. What I don't understand is why your first instinct when bringing up China or Russia is war. If you are itching to go to war you are absolutely free to go to Ukraine and fight with them. If you aren't then you're just a warmonger sitting behind a computer screen.

0

throw1e t1_jdo9jj0 wrote

There is a subtle irony here that you missed when you typed that out on a machine that is full of petro chemical derived materials.

1

Betterchicken9 t1_jdomkti wrote

You’re not making any argument.

1

throw1e t1_jdor5ir wrote

If you can't connect these dots on your own I'm not sure I can help.

1

Betterchicken9 t1_jdoumfz wrote

Again, you are making no argument.

1

throw1e t1_jdovim0 wrote

I'm not arguing here, just pointing out that you, yourself, not the government or the military, is the actual problem since you consume these conflict resources, apparently in ignorance, and point your figure with no sense of irony. I suspect this won't sit well with you, but hey I tried to connect the dots for you, told you it wouldn't help. This atitude is why the world is burning.

1

Giftwrapfromhell t1_jdiw4je wrote

So we should be stealing Syrian oil because if we dope a hypothetical situation exists where another country would do what we are doing? We have no business being there l

−14

BigbunnyATK t1_jdkijxi wrote

No, it's not hypothetical. As I said, Russia was already in these countries trying to garner complete control. Nothing hypothetical about it. Read up and have true opinions. There is no point in having half baked opinions on very serious history. You can't claim to be informed when even the small information I linked even discredits what you said. Also it's well known that one of, if not the main reason, that we went to the middle east was to fight a proxy war with Russia. Not an imaginary war. A proxy war. Look at Russia's involvement in Afghanistan, too.

2

Giftwrapfromhell t1_jdklbmf wrote

Imagine being pro proxy war

−2

BigbunnyATK t1_jdkn28x wrote

You're not replying with anything meaningful. I'll assume you're a troll if you don't respond with some sort of formed opinion based on history and geopolitics. I'm more than willing to debate these things, but "America bad" is not an opinion.

2

Giftwrapfromhell t1_jdkn8iq wrote

Wars are bad. Fighting proxy wars so the military industrial complex can make quarterly profits is bad. America is falling apart at the seems because we spend all our money on endless wars

0

throw1e t1_jdoahwv wrote

America is #1 in immigration rates per capita and in light of that fact your statement is hyperbole. Maybe you should try Russia?

1