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Zixinus t1_jdwa1xt wrote

Reply to comment by T1mac in Hungary ratifies Finland's Nato bid by gfghfhgfhfcvb

It is also a humiliation because Putin's was that the war was caused by "NATO expansion". His war against Nato expansion? Causes previously non-Nato countries that avoided NATO membership in fear of upsetting Russia to... to suddenly join NATO because they see that Russia will invade a neighboring while violating their previous security guarantees to a nation that they are dead-set on invading and joining to their own country.

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Kracus t1_jdwjete wrote

Meh, you can't really quote Putin on that kind of stuff because it's all bullshit to begin with. I can't logically believe Putin thinks NATO is going to invade Russia, at least not prior to him starting his war in Ukraine. His excuses for the war like NATO expansion or Nazi Ukrainians is all bullshit. He wants those resources and he wants to control the bottle necks into Russia. After the USSR collapse they lost so much population it set them back so hard they're still feeling it today.

Frankly, if their government wasn't so corrupt and they'd bothered to actually promote family and a more democratic government they'd probably be doing a lot better but instead they decided to go with an oligarchy and slowly trying to invade countries that left the USSR to recapture both, the population, and the borders they once controlled.

Now Putin is at the point where he fucked up and is desperately trying to unfuck his situation and it's not working. Hence why nukes are being shipped to Belarus. Come spring we're going to see how this is going to play out long term and I suspect it's not going to be in Russia's favor and the likelihood of tactical nukes being deployed is going to be much more likely.

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DonutsPowerHappiness t1_jdwlnje wrote

The rhetoric matters, especially about invading Russia, because of the territory Russia annexed. They now believe it to be theirs by right, so liberating it for Ukraine is sold to Russians as Russia being invaded.

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Kracus t1_jdwnbr5 wrote

Well that tracks with all the other fantasies he's using to scapegoat this invasion.

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Zixinus t1_jdwpcxs wrote

You are correct but this is the official line and what is being sold to the Russian population. Russian population hears about Putin stopping NATO expansion and NATO expansion happening anyway, what do they think? Putin is weak and losing his grip. That's not good for Putin's power, which is built on his strong-man image. Nothing can destroy a strong-man image than losing a war he thought he'd win in a week.

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CaptainAxiomatic t1_je0bz70 wrote

> I can't logically believe Putin thinks NATO is going to invade Russia

NATO won't invade Russia, NATO will contain Russia.

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aister t1_jdz81a9 wrote

Want more fun facts? Ukraine could not join NATO with an ongoing conflict. At the time, they already fought against the seperatists in Donetsk, as well as having Crimea occupied by Russia. The only way Ukraine could join NATO is to either win against the separatists, reunite Crimea, or forfeit those teritories.

All Putin had to do is to play a long game, keep on pumping money and weapon to the separatists, and he would achieve even more than what he's got right now.

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Drando_HS t1_je0mdnk wrote

It was never about NATO expansion. He doesn't give a shit about NATO. (Or rather, he didn't until he realized that NATO's alliance wasn't as weak as he thought it was.)

Putin just wants Ukraine. The "ethnic Russians in Donbass" and "NATO expansion" is just fake justification. It's nothing but a greedy, imperialistic land grab. He's going to throw Russians into the meat grinder until he either owns all or Ukraine, or until he fucking dies.

Why is he doing it? Look at basically any major successful project from the Soviet Union. The Moskava. The T-34 (and subsequent Soviet-era models). Kharkovchankas. That massive plane I forget the name of and too lazy to google.

All of it was built or designed Ukraine. Ukraine was the industrial heartland of the USSR. There is no USSR without Ukraine's industry and resources.

Putin simply wants it for himself. He wants the industry. He wants the ports. He wants the breadbasket of Europe. He wants another avenue for gas pipelines. He wants the glory and power of the USSR, because despite what Putin wants you to believe, the USSR was never just Russia.

It's nothing but a resource-grabbing imperialist expansion in an attempt to "save" Russia (read - make himself look good and even richer).

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Zixinus t1_je1iku9 wrote

Also, you should add what is the true driving cause of NATO "expansion" (there is a reason I put them in double apostrophes): Russia's treatment of its lackey countries.

With the exception of Hungary, whose prime minister went from "russians go home" to "we must protect russian oligarchs from sanctions" by the good old Hungarian tradition of institutionalized corruption, every ex-USSR member either became a NATO member, wants to be or became like Belarus with dictators.

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