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olearyboy t1_je37180 wrote

That ain’t gonna fix itself with a software update

323

Squidimus t1_je4i8dd wrote

Would it be better or worse if it did.

22

x925 t1_je4m737 wrote

I feel like it would be worse. Software controlled seatbelts sounds awful in every way.

29

SG_wormsblink t1_je4tabd wrote

Paid seatbelt subscriptions coming to you soon! You can protect your life for only $9.99 per month!

24

docmedic t1_je62cq9 wrote

The only thing separating you from the ground flying out the windshield are your tires seatbelts. Purchase a a full set of tires seatbelt subscription warrantied good for 36,000 miles or 3 years, whichever comes first, for the low low price of $900!

2

Shopworn_Soul t1_je5pdqx wrote

I know what you mean but my girlfriend's car automatically pre-tensions the seatbelts during heavy braking. I assume that is a software function.

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Morgrid t1_je7fwht wrote

My 2006 Jeep pretensions under hard acceleration and steering.

1

nsci2ece t1_je74h3p wrote

Worse. I own a 2019 Model 3 and hope to replace it this year with a non-Tesla EV.

Their software updates often have infuriating UX changes that Elon tries to justify by saying shit like "all input is error" only to backpedal amid growing dissatisfaction. And they trumpet the most worthless shit with so much fanfare like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

E.g. in Dec 2021 the V11 update came with the asinine decision to remove quick-toggles for the defroster and heated seats, requiring one extra menu layer to be brought up first. Took a few more months before the toggles were added back but who the fuck signed off on their removal in the first place?

Meanwhile the LTE modem can take 5-10 minutes to reconnect after leaving a dead zone like an underground garage (which cripples the GPS functionality), while all my phones reconnect in milliseconds. Still no fix for that. I literally have to turn on my phone hotspot every time I get in the car to ensure the nav will work properly.

The auto wipers are also the worst in the entire industry - still no fix to at least let me toggle a default minimum speed.

But hey, I now have Disney Plus and stupid touchscreen games in the infotainment system and the car can perform light shows on demand! OMG! Greatest car ever made!

7

Succulentmeditator t1_je54ch7 wrote

Worse, the loose seatbelt allows you to wriggle out of your seat and escape the car when the steering wheel falls off.

6

trollsong t1_je50ae5 wrote

"But still calling it a recall is false because-"

-muskrats prolly

12

Tonyhillzone t1_je37z8t wrote

Steering wheels and now seat belts. Are they made from Lego?

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avelak t1_je3nays wrote

This has always been the issue with Tesla... Their quality control standards are nowhere near the standards of established players in the industry. Sure, there are plenty of great Teslas out there, but there are a fuckton more lemons proportionally that roll off the assembly line than most other manufacturers.

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Sw1ggety t1_je4bxau wrote

I can believe that. Had a model S plaid come in to my shop to swap some all season tires on before winter. He had about 300 miles on it. Before we started he was concerned about a ride height error he was getting sometimes. We lifted it and found the ride height sensor on the driver front wasn’t even secured. Had lock tight on the bolt, but no nut had ever been attached. The bad thing was, once we lifted it and lowered it, it dropped to the ground because it couldn’t figure out what it’s ride height was. I advised him to take it in its current condition back to Tesla. If I would have secured it, they would have had a way to say they didn’t find anything. I was majorly concerned about fit and finish before that, but now I’m concerned about safety items as well.

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CrashB111 t1_je5fukc wrote

>but now I’m concerned about safety items as well.

The video of a Tesla "collision sensor" straight up accelerating towards a child mannequin sold me on that

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nsci2ece t1_je7532u wrote

I own a 2019 Model 3. Love EVs, will never go back to ICE, but holy fuck Tesla is absolute garbage in build quality.

I don't expect Rolls Royce fit and finish but when spending $50k+ I think it's perfectly reasonable to at least have something comparable to a Toyota Corolla.

Kia EV6 is on order with a long-ass wait. In the meantime I'm still driving this overpriced POS which rattles loudly from the back seat even on freshly repaved roads.

7

Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je3p1ks wrote

Are, you, sure, about, that, ?

−164

avelak t1_je3qe39 wrote

They typically rank near the very bottom in major build quality and reliability surveys (consumer reports, JD Power), but you can keep being a fanboy if you'd like. To their credit, they have moved up a few spots from dead last in the last couple of years!

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds

https://www.thestreet.com/automotive/most-least-reliable-cars-and-car-brands-according-to-consumer-reports#gid=ci02b0e590400025f0&pid=9-wrangler-jeep-wrangler-jeep

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[deleted] t1_je5dggl wrote

[removed]

−15

avelak t1_je5eyov wrote

Lol name calling? I guess I've found another person who loves Tesla.

Also, there's a difference between "everyone has recalls" (which is true and expected) and "everyone is at the same level of build quality as Tesla" (which is not true).

Tesla is consistently rated near the bottom of all major automotive manufacturers for build quality. For what it's worth, there are several other brands I probably wouldn't ever consider buying either due to the same reliability/consistency issues (like Ford).

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vajeen t1_je5r11c wrote

Some things just aren't worth arguing about. Shitty Teslas is probably one of them.

But, hey, if y'all are enjoying the pissing contest, go for it. 🍿

4

TbonerT t1_je5fgap wrote

Yeah, name calling. The first thing you did was declare them a fanboy for pointing out that the other major manufacturers have the same problems. This isn’t about Tesla. Stop being an asshole.

−17

avelak t1_je5fscy wrote

The very first thing I did was reiterate the point that Tesla is near the bottom of quality rankings, like I originally stated, and then followed up by indicating that the person I was responding to was likely blinded by fandom.

It's really not being an asshole

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TbonerT t1_je5hzer wrote

We can all see that you couldn’t get through a single sentence before calling someone with information you didn’t like a “fanboy” and you continue to attack them. That’s what assholes do.

−12

avelak t1_je5imea wrote

When did I continue to attack them? All I did was provide support for my initial assertions...

If anything, you're being far more aggressive than I was when I called him a "fanboy". In fact, you've completely departed from the initial discussion and brought nothing to the table about the original points made. Maybe you should take a long look in the mirror before you just start calling random people who don't like your favorite car company assholes.

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Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je3ujg6 wrote

Surveys like these are another story, they are inherently subjective. For ex JD power includes things like infotainment tech. Yet, they still fall within the ranks of the established players in the industry. Same with the number of lemons.

It's an objective fact that established players have these same issues, so it's easy to spot an inaccurate characterization as extreme as 'no where near' and 'fuck ton'. Which looks more like you're a tesla hate boy, as I'm not saying they are better than anyone. If I was ide pull something irrelevant out like they still have a higher profit margin so they aren't having a problem selling these cars with poor surveys and quality issues.

−140

SipthatTing t1_je46mw7 wrote

You know no matter how hard you simp for Elon hes not going to bang you right?

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Cougardoodle t1_je4twyh wrote

Musk has 11 kids from 10 moms, he's already on the fastest possible route to impregnate that dude.

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SipthatTing t1_je4wgip wrote

I sware all of his kids were IVF

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cinderparty t1_jebx9y1 wrote

All but the first one, who died from SIDS, were conceived via ivf, yes.

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CodingLazily t1_je4vxiq wrote

Calling a survey "inherently subjective" is a bold accusation when your own argument is founded entirely on informal personal observation and anecdote, which is far less rigorous than even a survey.

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Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je4x01u wrote

>informal personal observation

False. Actual recalls for the other automakers is not anecdote.

−12

CodingLazily t1_je52zse wrote

No, but your experience with a Google search is anecdote. If you don't trust survey data, and I don't blame you for that, then find something that's actually better.

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Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je55u8j wrote

Well for one, at least a quick Google search is a step above the OC that just made claims with zero data to back it up. And I don't agree that's it anecdote, but that's my opinion.

How about this?. It shows conflict with how survey reports can used to back up claims.

But keep in mind, I'm not trying to write a dissertation to refute the original claims.

0

feral_brick t1_je3qmir wrote

Are you going for "idiotic Internet argument bingo?"

Whataboutism and false equivalency both in a 5 word comment must be a new record.

Fact of the matter is that teslas have shit reliability and anyone with five seconds to spare can figure that out just like I did.

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Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je3u4ci wrote

Took me 5 seconds to Google those links objectively showing that all established players suffer from what is being complained about, seat belts, stearing wheels, lemons. That's not whataboutism lol that's directly related.

And you link to a JD ranking based on things like infotainment function, to which they can't rank Tesla because it doesn't meet criteria for the survey.

−69

feral_brick t1_je3v82c wrote

aLl tHe EsTaBLisHeD pLAyeRs dO iT

If you're too stupid to understand that the only meaningful (I won't use the word objective because you clearly don't understand it) way to compare reliability is to compare rates, rather than "x company had issues with component y" or that finding examples of similar failure modes without numbers on frequency is textbook whataboutism, engaging with you isn't worth it because you won't learn and trying to explain it in ways you would understand would only make me sink to your level

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Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je3vsrk wrote

>would only make me sink to your level

What level am I at? And you engaged me. I gave a reasonable explanation of the comments i was refuting.

While you responded with childish insults:

>Are you going for "idiotic Internet argument bingo?"

>must be a new record.

>aLl tHe EsTaBLisHeD pLAyeRs dO iT

And I'm using the OC own words to show its not whataboutism, it's related.

>meaningful (I won't use the word objective because you clearly don't understand it)

You won't say objective, and continue the childish insults, becuase surveys are inherently subjective! But even still, the counter argument is: being ranked in the bottom third does not support claiming "nowhere near the standards of the established.."

>similar failure modes without numbers on frequency

If you want to make it a chore, we could analyze the rates, but a good comparison would also need nuance such as, if it's a manufacturing issue then adjust for how many are made at that manufacturing site, or manufacturing line type

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feral_brick t1_je46t7n wrote

Your level is either trolling or blindingly delusional.

I responded with childish insults because frankly you have not shown either the intelligence or emotional maturity to respond to anything else.

The rest of your comment proves my point that you either willfully ignore facts or don't understand why you're wrong and are incapable of learning. So I hope you have a nice life, but I'm not here to teach you the things your middle school teachers failed to teach you, so this conversation is over.

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Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je4wt29 wrote

You have very strong opinions about discussing facts and how to converse. You sound very triggered, honestly.

−7

0b0011 t1_je4y7o7 wrote

It's complete whataboutism.

X happens more often with this company than these other companies.

What about when X happens to them? Here's links.

Not only was it whataboitism but you didn't even address what he was saying. He wasn't saying other manufacturers never have issues he was saying tesla has them more often.

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Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je50dhw wrote

>he was saying tesla has them more often

Which is why I showed it doesn't happen to tesla more often, how can I make that analysis without discussing it happening to every other manufacfurer, nor does it amount to a fuck ton more lemons.

You guys are struggling with whataboutism.

−5

0b0011 t1_je53mht wrote

You didn't show that it doesn't happen more often. You just showed that it also happens to other companies.

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Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je57mth wrote

To be more specific, the claim is that relative to seat belt, steering wheel, and lemons, tesla is nowhere near the standards of established players and a fuckton more lemons; so to show that the other players also have large recalls of the same type does show that they are near their standards, as well as amount of lemons being in the middle of the other players, a direct show of it not happening more often.

Which is also, very much not whataboutism.

−1

Snooty_Cutie t1_je39b69 wrote

Probably stuck together with a purple Elmer's glue stick.

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IgDailystapler t1_je6byzg wrote

Was I just bad at gluing, or did those things legitimately never fucking work? I literally refused to use glue in elementary school because Elmer’s purple glue sticks always failed me (I still swear by tape).

3

VuduStringDoll t1_je4blsd wrote

Now that's not really fair.

Legos don't fall apart that easily.

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asdaaaaaaaa t1_je4bght wrote

The materials themselves aren't poor quality, and I'd imagine the engineering (on paper) would work. The major issue is quality control. Doesn't matter if your seat belt can stop an elephant, if the dude building the thing doesn't follow the right steps or get it to the correct tolerances, it's not going to work anyway.

13

Reasonable_Ticket_84 t1_je9n59q wrote

It's not even that, Musk's and Tesla's obsession to push shipping goals to post stock pumping quarterly numbers doesn't happen by wishful thoughts. It happens by pressuring workers in the factories to "go faster". While ignoring that means "start cutting corners".

Hey, it lets the executives have plausible deniability if there's a lawsuit over it.

Basically, you want to reject your Tesla delivery if it was made the last 2 weeks of a quarter.

3

asdaaaaaaaa t1_je9nch7 wrote

That's exactly what I said though. While the idea/blueprint/engineering of the car is alright, the actual quality of work/building going into them suffers immensely. Doesn't matter if I plan or engineer a bridge that can support multiple Godzillas at once, if it's not built right it won't meet specifications/requirements.

1

litnu12 t1_je411xr wrote

The Elmo test: remove something, test it once and if it still works never look back.

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kalidorisconan t1_je368x5 wrote

Because of course they are..

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Fynn_the_Finger t1_je37fct wrote

First steering wheels, now seat belts. I wonder if there might be systemic quality issues... shit, I just got banned from twitter for some reason.

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pomonamike t1_je3901d wrote

Teslas have had quality control issues since day 1, but we all gave them a pass because it was a new car manufacturer and they were doing some neat things with EVs. That was years ago though, they should be judged like any other car now, and they sure are looking like the quality of 1980s-90s GM.

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fullload93 t1_je3c02s wrote

But 80s-90s GM didn’t have steering wheels coming lose right?

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Outlulz t1_je3pr5n wrote

And these are still the same models they’ve been selling for years and they STILL can’t get it right. Eventually they’re going to have to do what every other manufacturer does much more often and release a refreshed body and interior design and start this thing again from square one.

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asdaaaaaaaa t1_je4bo0x wrote

That's the thing, had they actually addressed or fixed the quality control issues, I wouldn't have minded so much. Still wouldn't be buying one, but I'd respect that they at least solved the problem. I just don't think they can sell Teslas at a competitive price without cheaping out on something, and I'd imagine some of that is labor/quality control.

They're still an incredibly new player to the market, so would make sense that anything they try to do would be as expensive, if not more than their competitors who can scale a lot better and have longer relationships with other businesses. Letting build quality go to shit isn't the correct way to keep prices competitive IMO, especially with a 2-ton moving vehicle.

0

hpark21 t1_je3fjn8 wrote

I don't know.. So many cars have massive issues all the time and looks like Tesla seem to get more attention.

GM had burning battery issue with their BOLT.

Toyota had wheels falling out issue with their BZ4X (stupid name - assuming Subaru also had the issue but it is same car)

Honda recently had to recall 200k+ cars for the side view mirror falling off issue.

−11

mheffe t1_je4msdm wrote

All 3 of the brands you're comparing Telsa to are technically above industry standards in terms of reliability across all their models.

Tesla is below average, 5th lowest.

As you pointed out, all manufacturers have issues, that's why they (J.D. power) rank the manufacturers based on how many issues they have per 100 cars made.

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TbonerT t1_je5dtjq wrote

JD Power sells awards. They don’t mean anything other than a company paid them money.

−1

Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je3f37j wrote

Looks, like we're, all stuck, in a, time loop

−15

honeybooboobro t1_je4yudf wrote

Active in Denver, Teslamotors, UFO and Aliens. Ok, bud.

5

Novel-Jackfruit-369 t1_je50ldb wrote

So? Is that a sin? Is that supposed to make me feel bad? Does that invalidate the information I have provided that refutes the extreme claims?

−1

jd52995 t1_je37qw7 wrote

They banned my Twitter for refusing to disable my two factor authentication, and refusing to pay for it! 🤣

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kindrudekid t1_je3ihy4 wrote

You can still use 2FA, just not via sms.

TOTP, yubikey etc are still free.

Edit: those down voting me, as I say in my job, RTFM or in this case the entire email/page about this notice.

You can still use authenticator apps and/or security keys for free. Here's how to do it: https://www.theverge.com/23606430/how-to-secure-twitter-account-2fa-without-blue

−26

adreamofhodor t1_je5gvl6 wrote

So Twitter took away a service they offered? Sounds like a bad deal to me.

5

kindrudekid t1_je5nx1s wrote

No they still offer the 2FA service.

Previously they offered it via SMS, TOTP based Authenticator Apps (Google Authenticator, Duo Security, Authy etc) and Security Keys (Yubikey)

SMS based 2FA is weak and been vulnerable for almost a decade now. NIST sent out an official notice back in 2016. Google and Apple phased it out completely too.

So Twitter just disabled the shitter, weaker, more vulnerable SMS based 2FA is not available. Not only is it bad from a InfoSec perspective, it is also a line item in capital expenses from a business perspective.

I do agree that the phrasing from twitter was shitty and instead of asking users to fork over money, they could have guided them to the alternatives.

−1

kalidorisconan t1_je37v13 wrote

I just thought I would get back on with a vengeance but then i see the stupid shit they fuck up with the code and go… nah.

6

royalbravery t1_je5e0vi wrote

It’s fine, teslas never crash. They don’t really need seatbelts.

1

laz21 t1_je433ra wrote

Feature so you can reach steering wheel when it falls on the floor or out the window

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aqua_tec t1_je3cod7 wrote

For subscription features and riddled with safety issues - I wouldn’t touch a Tesla with a ten-foot pole.

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okwellactually t1_je569va wrote

Was t-boned in my Tesla by a guy going 30mph. The force was so strong it knocked us into a utility pole which we took out.

My son and I walked away with no injuries.

I won't drive anything else.

Edit: I should add the other driver stupidly tried to claim he didn't run the stop sign. The 8 cameras on the car recorded everything, before, during and after the accident.

−12

Tamadrummer88 t1_je5inrh wrote

Volvo would like to have a word with you about that.

10

okwellactually t1_je5kiqf wrote

Indeed their cars are safe, but they don't have a compelling EV (I'll never drive an ICE car again), certainly not comparable in terms of software and charging network.

And their cars can't get safer via software updates as Teslas can and do. Since I've had mine in less than two years, software updates have improved seat belt tensioning and air bag deployment. All based off of crash data from the fleet.

−5

Tamadrummer88 t1_je5l1d6 wrote

Improved seat belt tensioning through software updates? Yeah no way would I get a vehicle where a software update can manipulate federally mandated safety equipment.

17

aqua_tec t1_je63a6b wrote

Yeah. I would not be surprised if they started to charge for those updates. Or that footage of your crash. Speculative I know but nothing Elon does instills confidence in me with respect to new technology. No thanks.

4

okwellactually t1_je6a71s wrote

In California at least and GDPR regions, they can't charge for the data.

The amount of data I received is quite impressive.

3

aqua_tec t1_je6t885 wrote

I’m glad people like them. I just have no interest personally.

2

verasev t1_je3l1ew wrote

How do you mess up seat belts? We've had that technology for long ass time at this point.

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redander t1_je3s38v wrote

Ohh, so what is next the dashboard.... or the axle? Imagine paying all this money for a computer and not thinking about the fact that it's supposed to be a car. Or buying a car and not realizing all you bought is a giant crappy put together computer.

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Mercury82jg t1_je3ajce wrote

Looks like that Bill Gates short selling of TSLA is going to pay off, again!

21

DeepSpaceNebulae t1_je4qe3m wrote

If you have the money to hold shorts, it’ll pay off eventually. Tesla is comically overvalued

They are highest valued auto manufacturer in the world, yet produce faar less cars than the next top 10 manufacturers.

5

ParanoidFactoid t1_je4iyh0 wrote

Build quality of Tesla cars is just horrible. There's a good reason why Consumer Reports rates the car's reliability as poor.

14

Medium-Complaint-677 t1_je54tir wrote

I love how Tesla's build quality has been bottom of the business for over a decade but it took Musk buying twitter and being an edgelord for anyone to start actually paying attention.

12

BarCompetitive7220 t1_je4sgtv wrote

Quality is for suckers - says CEO of company...we are here to make a profit and here in Texas no one monitors our work.

9

nsci2ece t1_je5fj4o wrote

Ironically their Shanghai-built cars have been lauded for far superior fit and finish compared to the US built cars. Probably helps that the Chinese EV market is a lot more competitive especially when it comes to the availability and reliability of non-Supercharger DC networks, which means Tesla doesn't have the same competitive advantage to coast on like they do in North America.

3

snoberto77 t1_je4z75j wrote

Cost of tesla: 60k+

Value of craftmanship: 12

8

crumbertwadswallow t1_je6iuzp wrote

I dislike tesla, tesla cars, and tesla owners on principle alone. Douchemobile.

8

Icy-Letter-3514 t1_je4iybt wrote

Leased a Tesla in 2021 can’t wait to return it in 2024

7

Dundun1962 t1_je56qyq wrote

Budget car build at executive car price.

5

sakipooh t1_je6ax93 wrote

Ever since someone mentioned panel gaps it's all I see when I come across a Tesla. They really are just slapped together with zero quality control. And that's just something we can see I can't image the internal quality of the build.

4

Budmanes t1_je51ttp wrote

Elon winning some more

3

Has_hog t1_je3eegs wrote

aren’t they under another investigation currently?

2

EZsqueezylemonpeezy t1_je4y316 wrote

I've never seen so many investigations into a single car company. How can you have so many problems with basic parts of a car? I'd rather get from point A to B with an intact seatbelt and steering wheel than have the car drive itself.

2

nyrol t1_je6put9 wrote

99% of the investigations end in no fault found with Tesla, or that it was only 2 cars out of millions like the steering wheel issue. Tesla also self reports issues due to the telemetry they collect on their entire fleet that no other manufacturer does.

2

TbonerT t1_je5f3dp wrote

You never seen so many because it isn’t popular here to post all the ones from the other manufacturers. A Tesla recall post can easily hit 1,000 comments but others hardly register.

−1

honeybooboobro t1_je4z2or wrote

I'd like a side by side in depth comparison between the Made in Germany and other models.

2

nsci2ece t1_je75r82 wrote

The made-in-China cars were already lauded for superior fit and finish compared to Fremont-built cars.

It's not that surprising as Chinese workers have proven that if you give them the right blueprint and pay them enough, they are more than capable of building high quality products. Made-in-China is no longer the guarantee of low quality it used to be, especially as Chinese factories become increasingly automated.

2

m3t4ldood t1_je4zt1n wrote

Can you imagine using voice assist to tell the Tesla where to go people in the back are "like left turn" on a bridge.

2

Sxuld t1_je4ead1 wrote

You just sell the idea of a product and all the idiots flock to it, then you fix it up to the best of your abilities. Just capitalism working as intended with clever businesses and not so clever customers

−1