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Mr_EZ_sk t1_j140pvj wrote

Reply to comment by KOBossy55 in Germany returns 20 Benin bronzes to Nigeria, noting ‘dark past’ by Fit-Asparagus8557

Why should the Rosetta Stone be returned? It’s obviously not an integral part to Egyptian heritage seeing as it was just lying around before the French dug it up

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Saint_Genghis t1_j143o7b wrote

Yeah let's maybe hold off on the Rosetta Stone, considering Egypt had a revolution not so long ago. The Egyptian Museum was raided in the chaos, and priceless artifacts were destroyed.

Nothing much has really changed for Egypt since the revolution, I'd be wary giving any artifacts back to them until it becomes more stable.

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calmdwnnchill t1_j14ia1l wrote

Lol what kinda mentality is this, “yea we stole it and have no morale/humane standard, but we will you ppl are civilized to have it back so we will keep it for you.” That’s how you sound.

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Saint_Genghis t1_j14ito9 wrote

How do you feel about ISIS destroying Palmyra or the Taliban destroying the Bamiyan Buddhas?

I'd rather not risk the destruction of priceless artifacts thanks.

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calmdwnnchill t1_j14ka1l wrote

All that is mute when you shouldn’t have any power on the item being possessed.

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Saint_Genghis t1_j14lbaq wrote

It's absolutely not mute, you just don't want to address the argument.

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fxmldr t1_j14t7mz wrote

John Oliver already did pretty compellingly. It's probably easier to check that out to see why that "argument" is condescending and asinine.

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Saint_Genghis t1_j14ulen wrote

My dude I'm not going to hunt down your own argument for you. Not everyone watches John Oliver.

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fxmldr t1_j15gv7s wrote

You just don't want to address the argument.

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Saint_Genghis t1_j15j0yw wrote

If you make an argument, I'll address it.

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fxmldr t1_j15y80s wrote

Delicious hypocrisy, mmm.

Here's a summary article for ya. https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/oct/03/john-oliver-stolen-antiquities-western-museums

I wonder which excuse you'll use not to read it.

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Saint_Genghis t1_j160k6i wrote

What hypocrisy? You told me to go watch HBO. That's an advertisement, not an argument. Why are you so hung up on this? Was it really so hard to post that article in the first place instead of sending people on a fucking scavenger hunt to find out what the hell you were even arguing?

And the only part of that article that seemed to address my point was that the British museum fucked up the Elgin Marbles with a wire brush 90 years ago. I don't know about you but I'm going to take my chances with the institution that accidentally fucked up in a minor way 90 years ago rather than the dictatorship that just had a chaotic revolution a decade ago.

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fxmldr t1_j163y1e wrote

"Scavenger hunt" for the second hit on Google if you search for it. Different standards, I guess.

Oh, I predicted this one. And I think I understand what's behind it. Because, on the one hand, we have actual damage done to stolen items, on the other, the condescending idea that these other people might not do a great job protecting their national treasures. You're shown evidence, and then just dismiss it.

Well, you've put forth no evidence except things that happened in the past and could hypothetically happen again, or acts carried out by terrorists. So...

Maybe you should be making a new argument instead. You know, instead of veiled appeals to subtle racism.

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Saint_Genghis t1_j164r0v wrote

And there it is, the final card. "Have all your arguments utterly failed? Cry 'RACISM' and declare victory."

Have a nice day, and try not to give any dictators priceless artifacts.

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fxmldr t1_j165fer wrote

LMAO, I see you've reached the picking up your toys and going home stage.

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YlangScent t1_j184emx wrote

Do you mean moot? Or did mute get another meaning added to it?

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Azudekai t1_j14z8wm wrote

Preventing the destruction of a irreplaceable, historical human artifact is the best argument there is against returning artifacts to descendants of cultures that made them.

Sure the key to translating hieroglyphs was destroyed, but at least we felt good when we delivered it to the guys who couldn't protect it.

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KitchenCredit4510 t1_j1416vp wrote

Was it lying around in the UK?

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Leshawkcomics t1_j143z4q wrote

No, last I checked it was in Egypt.

Someone was trying to use it in construction.

And you have a whole slew of people insisting only Englishmen know it's true value, and implying that the ENTIRETY of Egypt and it's historical and archaeological community is simply too backwards to handle historical artifacts because of one dude working construction many many years ago.

It's like someone from Madagascar finding an artifact in Canada that explicitly proves trade happened between Vikings and natives, takes it back to their home country and refuses to give it back to Canada because they said they found it being used as a door ornament and is trying to paint all Canadians, native and immigrant with the same brush as whoever found it without realizing it's importance

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UrbanDryad t1_j14eckd wrote

No, but surely you recognize that if not for being kept safe in the UK all this time these heritage items would simply have been looted, sold, or destroyed. There are many, many examples of treasures lost forever in this way. Yes, these pieces originated in certain countries. But they are also a part of collective human history given how old they are. Hell, some of these places are still chaotic enough that if you returned them they might face the same fate.

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Mr_EZ_sk t1_j141xq9 wrote

it was being studied in efforts to transliterate Coptic and Hieroglyphic Egyptian scripts into ancient greek and then into English

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EsotericAbstractIdea t1_j144sd3 wrote

Was. Now give it back

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Mr_EZ_sk t1_j145mdo wrote

So we should just give it back for the one reason it was found in what is now Egypt? Never mind the fact that it was a gift from the Greeks, to a Greek dynasty ruling over Egypt, or that the Mameluks knew of its existence and actively decided to contribute nothing to crack the alphabets. The Egyptian government(s) did literally no work on the Rosetta Stone and feel as if they are just to reap the greatest reward

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EsotericAbstractIdea t1_j145s5l wrote

If I come in your backyard and dig up some shit, is it mine?

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inksmudgedhands t1_j14cw49 wrote

If what you dig up belonged to someone else, it might not be yours or mine, the current landowner. For example, I am in North Carolina. If you dug up my backyard and found an ancient Native American site full of artifacts, do I get to claim it because it was on my land or does the Native American nation whose ancestors those artifacts belong to get claim it? The Rosetta Stone was created during a time when the Greeks controlled Egypt and it was part of the Grecian Empire. That makes it a Greek artifact. If anything, the modern Greeks have a stronger claim on that artifact than the modern Egyptians.

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EsotericAbstractIdea t1_j14d33f wrote

The English have the least claim.

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inksmudgedhands t1_j14guod wrote

True. But the Egyptians have as much of a claim. Especially since it was originally considered worthless trash at the time it was collected. So much so, that similar artifacts around it were being used as building materials for other things. The Europeans salvaged it, put the work into figure exactly what it was and translated it. Now that it has actual value, the Egyptians want it back? Screw that. They didn't give a damn about it for centuries. They were even a threat to it because, again, they saw it as worthless and were smashing up all the ruins. But the moment someone else put in the actual hard work to make valuable they claim it was theirs all along.

That's nonsense.

It would be like you throwing out a couch on the curb to be taken away by the garbage man. Instead, someone else with a truck took it, restored it wonderfully, displayed it for all to admire and you come along and say, "Hey, that's my couch. Give it back!" No, you were going to throw out the couch. It was salvaged and restored by someone else. Now it's their couch. You don't get to reclaim it now that it has been restored. You lost it the moment you declared it trash.

The case of the Rosetta Stone isn't like the Benin Bronzes which were actually being used for what they were intended and honored by the original owners. That is a clear cut case of the original owners having their property, which was at the time being used properly, being stolen. The Rosetta Stone is not the same and shouldn't be treated as such.

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Aldervale t1_j146u4m wrote

It might be, depending on the mineral rights laws where you live.

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kekentyl t1_j14mt1h wrote

Which is pretty stupid tbh. "You can use the surface of this land, but if there's anything valuable under it, it's mine and a court will force you to allow me access to the land to drill/mine for it."

I mean, if you can only use it so long as it's not burdensome for the owner of the mineral rights, is it really yours?

In Texas at least, where some of the largest landowners are ranchers, these kinds of laws seem crafted specially to protect and grow their wealth and prevent anyone else from using the mineral resources present on "their" land to attain wealth.

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