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[deleted] t1_j28ksvf wrote

[removed]

317

Dvoraxx t1_j28t0rv wrote

Kyiv independent has been insanely anti Russia for ages. It’s basically the only source for all the stories about Russian warcrimes

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Outrageous_Garlic306 t1_j29kw23 wrote

Nothing insane about it. The only sensible position to take.

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Dvoraxx t1_j29lzwb wrote

My point is that people are very quick to dismiss anything remotely negative about Ukraine as Russian propaganda

The comment I replied to didn’t even say it was fake. They literally said “people who are aligned with Russia say it’s bad, therefore it must be good” and tried to imply the Kyiv Independent is under Russian control

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Konras t1_j28tzge wrote

By "from ages" you mean - since November last year?

−1

mrlolloran t1_j28yjp1 wrote

I don’t follow them but they’ve had a good reason since about March 2014 imo

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Konras t1_j295esd wrote

Kiev Independent was founded in November 2021.

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mrlolloran t1_j295jpx wrote

So nobody who founded it or working there can have opinions from before the paper was founded?

Edit: people downvoting me are smooth brained af. That’s like saying I couldn’t have an opinion or stance on 9/11 if I started a newspaper next week because it already happened.

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FapMeNot_Alt t1_j290uvs wrote

Several organizations quoted within this article are European or Ukrainian organizations. You can't just say "russia" and close your eyes to bad shit that happens, even if it is one of our allies doing it.

This law is needlessly broad and empowers the Ukrainian state to engage in prior restraint.

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heimos OP t1_j28ozxs wrote

Kyiv Independent is a Russian news outlet ? You must be joking, right. This law essentially gives total media control to the government. Don’t forget there is election, yes despite the war, an election in 2023. So think what it will give ruling party

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str8bipp t1_j28psop wrote

How does an election work during war when the population is scattered and just trying to maintain power and heat?

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Freexscsa t1_j28ppbb wrote

I really don't think that Zelensky is in any danger of losing an election right now.

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heimos OP t1_j28qijp wrote

Parliament not presidential. He could lose majority. It’s not a two party system

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Freexscsa t1_j28ryd2 wrote

I am going to go out on a limb and say chances are people are going to be pretty supportive of a government that's managing to fight off an invasion from a supposed super power.

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heimos OP t1_j28t1b5 wrote

Not doubting the support for the government. Doubting the fairness and freedom of choice for people and other parties. Media controls A LOT so that can be used as a tool to seat people’s opinion

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barrinmw t1_j28yjgw wrote

How do you have an election when you have parts of the country literally occupied by a foreign power? How do you have elections when your polling locations become targets for Russian missiles?

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HungryGiantMan t1_j2axmjh wrote

Your post history is full of Russian apologism and defense of Andrew Tate. We know who are.

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heimos OP t1_j2axzke wrote

Anything you don’t like is Russian propaganda. So yea, I use my brain and see both sides to everything

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Blitzdrive t1_j2b3w3i wrote

What’s the both sides to the Russian invasion? What’s their compelling argument?

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heimos OP t1_j2bnmhf wrote

There is absolutely nothing positive in invading a sovereign country. Between lives lost and ethnic damage between two nations, the pain from this conflict will last for years. With that being said, you have to zoom out and look at the bigger picture of has happened in the last 30 years between the West and Russia

−11

shewy92 t1_j2e48eb wrote

So it's the West's fault Russia invaded a country that was minding its own business? LOL, funny joke my guy.

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heimos OP t1_j2ebumj wrote

Remember when Putin and Biden met, guess what they talked about. They couldn’t agree on something, and we could only guess what. Result of that was the invasion.

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BetaplanB t1_j28y5q6 wrote

Please provide sources that this article is directly or indirectly backed by Russia. Otherwise please adjust this seemingly false statement.

I am all in for throwing the Russian fascist propaganda out but you need to keep sane with yourself.

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AudibleNod t1_j28m2td wrote

The byline isn't from a person. Which is usually suspect when other articles have a real person. Often this is done when the journalist wants some level of protection.

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tetoffens t1_j28m79b wrote

Attributing it to the paper itself rather than a person usually means it is the official stance of the publication, not that someone is afraid to attach their name.

But I don't think it's that complicated here. There are loads of random articles on this site attributed like this. Ones which would have no implication where someone would get in any trouble.

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[deleted] t1_j28m04y wrote

[removed]

−26

ucjuicy t1_j28n99m wrote

You do realize that invading a neighboring country and bombing its citizens for eight months is a tad more authoritarian than this law ever could be?

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BetaplanB t1_j28ydt3 wrote

That doesn’t pave the way to bolster journalism. Even EU journalism groups outed critique of this new law.

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Anonuser123abc t1_j2akm8l wrote

One thing being bad doesn't make a different bad thing good. Your comment is the text book argument from hypocrisy (whataboutism). The two things are separate and different and also both bad.

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Freexscsa t1_j28ib56 wrote

President Volodymyr Zelensky on Dec. 29 signed into law a controversial bill on the media.

The Ukrainian authorities argued that the law aims to bring Ukrainian legislation in line with EU law and fight Russian propaganda.

Media reform is one of the EU's conditions for starting negotiations on Ukraine's accession to the bloc. The EU wanted Ukraine to adopt legislation to fight the influence of vested interests on the media.

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tehmlem t1_j291dd1 wrote

Folks, supporting Ukraine's right to sovereignty and self governance does not mean any criticism of policy means you must be Russian. Likewise "they're fighting a war" is not carte blanche for actions that would otherwise be dangerous and unjust.

See Korematsu v United States, Debs v United States

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Zachf1986 t1_j29pand wrote

No, but it's not unreasonable to want to control the media in a period of wartime, and with the modern rise of the use of propaganda and misinformation as a primary tool for authoritarians.

I'd want to keep an eye on it, but it doesn't really mean that it will be used to limit freedom of the press. I would think it unlikely due to their desire to maintain positive relations with NATO countries and the EU. Abusing it would undermine those goals.

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dudeinred69 t1_j2ad51b wrote

Ultimately media freedom is necessary to actually allow the people to express their will

I wouldn’t be too confident about him winning support in the next election, especially if some other candidate proposes a peace treaty that stops all the death and misery

This new law favours him massively and it is not a democratic thing

−12

ChocoboRaider t1_j2aue6n wrote

If you think Ukrainians will vote for someone willing to kowtow to the Kremlin, I’ve got news for ya buddy.

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fartalldaylong t1_j2ayp1h wrote

The laws in the previous government were flat out authoritarian. This is nothing more than creating laws to protect against insurgence and misinformation from Russia...which I am sure you are well aware.

Tell me about the media laws in Russia and the freedom of the press there...go on...

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9Wind t1_j28hcfx wrote

> The law dramatically expands the media regulator's powers and gives it the authority to shut down news sites that are not officially registered as media without a court ruling. 

> In July the European Federation of Journalists urged the Ukrainian authorities to withdraw the draft media law. The federation said that the law contained "many provisions that are contrary to European values."

That is yikes. Anyone that comes in later on could abuse that.

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s0mnambulance t1_j292kxm wrote

Yes they could, and that may be a problem down the line. This is another of the many, many, many shitty things about war-- you can't afford to think ethically in the long-term, even if you're being invaded. With social media being used for what I'll go as far as to call mass brainwashing, and Russia having embraced this tactic, their enemies may very well have to restrict media/freedom of speech to keep the enemy from using it to their advantage.

Humans are such shit animals. It really bothers me that we still tend to do this 'good guys/bad guys' thing when actual war breaks out, as though life were a simple fable. War IRL is the erosion of everything that makes us human, on any and every side. Russia is 100% the aggressor here, but that means Ukraine has to be vicious and conniving in response. If Ukraine doesn't flex against said aggression, where does that lead them?

−10

DM_DM_DND t1_j299ze7 wrote

Before anyone loses their shit: The EFJ criticized this back in July. It's been months since then and it's gone through revisions. I don't speak Ukrainian so I can't personally verify what the bill actually says now, but my understanding was that the bill was criticized for granting too much power over non-traditional media like websites. Most of the Ukrainian sites I'm reading are saying that it's primarily focused on providing more control over traditional media broadcasting in it's current form. Unless a local or Ukrainian speaker confirms that it has been relatively unaltered a lot of the speculation in the comments section is misguided.

The other aspect is that, to be frank, Journalists always argue for no regulation of Journalists. They are biased here by circumstance and creed, and as an American I have a very strong belief that they can't be trusted to represent themselves fairly in this matter. Misinformation thrives because the new Media cycle is broken, and special interests have been allowed to purchase and control Media with impunity. Yes, government regulation is an imperfect solution, but unregulated journalism is a disease.

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VentusHermetis t1_j2bw4g5 wrote

> Unless a local or Ukrainian speaker confirms that it has been relatively unaltered a lot of the speculation in the comments section is misguided.

No. The burden of proof is on those who claim the law is different than that which has been confirmed, even if that confirmation was months ago.

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DM_DM_DND t1_j2bwvd5 wrote

...I mean, no it's not. The expectation is that laws change from their draft forms. That's just how politics work.

Using a months old condemnation without context for if it's still relevant is dumb as a bag of bricks. You don't get to ignore questions of relevancy by arguing that a controversy is eternally relevant somehow. Plus this isn't an impossible question to answer, I just don't have any easy way to answer it myself.

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Showerthawts t1_j294mbx wrote

Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the civil war.

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OnePlus4Equalsfun t1_j2aowh2 wrote

yes and it was unconstitutional and wrong then too....

​

It was also HEAVILY abused.

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Showerthawts t1_j2b1chz wrote

The office of Executive really only exists for one purpose in modern Democracy - and that is to make quick decisions in wartime. If our nation thought it was so wrong then, why didn't we reform the law afterwards? Marshall Law also allows for basically total control by the President as Commander in Chief. No?

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Disenculture t1_j2a8k4t wrote

100% will be abused. Not even a fucking question.

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Snipgan t1_j28p4rd wrote

Typically the freedom of the press is very important and necessary for a freer society.

However, when faced with a literal war and a disinformation campaign by your enemies, it’s a tight rope to walk.

Not surprised more aggressive measures are being taken. The main hope is it will be walked back and relaxed when Ukraine finally kicks Russia’s butt out of their country.

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WolfThick t1_j29vryf wrote

Russian fanboys sticking up for Russia huh who are these objections coming from let me guess

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elefantsblue t1_j29ygqr wrote

Of course they want authoritarian control like they have in the EU.

−13

astral1 t1_j293jnl wrote

You can tell when this man talks that he is full of something. He looks and acts like a paid actor. Something is fishy over in Ukraine. They just fought hard internally for democratic society. (doc: winter onfire? )

−20

TraditionalGap1 t1_j29ng0l wrote

What's the point of this post?

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astral1 t1_j2bjbr9 wrote

because i dont trust Zelensky and for all we know this could all be a pretense for taking ukraine out of the EU , supplant their democracy, or something... i got a lot of ideas based on things ive gleaned so idk. im dumb so idk. im just trying to think ok. Please donthurt mah feelings. You can CALL it a democracy when you contorl the media.

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xavis t1_j2bze8o wrote

Im surprised russia still has working internet. How are you here?

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SuperstitiousPigeon5 t1_j2d6j35 wrote

They haven’t cut the internet because they still want information to flow in to Russia. The down side is what comes back out.

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Wookhooves t1_j28i78l wrote

Between jailing his opponents and silencing media this doesn’t look great…

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barrinmw t1_j28xpsx wrote

No, he jailed people actively working with the occupying Russian forces.

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Wookhooves t1_j28xsdi wrote

He jailed his political opponents

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barrinmw t1_j28y9qh wrote

By political opponents, you mean people who were actively working with the occupying Russian forces.

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react_dev t1_j2cpbic wrote

Traitors can be a label that’s easily applied to… guess who, your political opponents.

I mean who knows the truth. Not me. I’m not gonna guess what I don’t know

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Wookhooves t1_j28zdg7 wrote

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/19/world/europe/ukraine-poroshenko-zelensky.html

It’s completely normal to free “traitors” during war time, no?

−5

barrinmw t1_j2907y0 wrote

He made a deal with separatist forces to fund them, if that is illegal, he will have his day in court. Are you going to claim that Zelensky is despotic because he acquiesced to the courts letting the former president go on his own recognizance?

Next you are going to tell me that if the DOJ goes after Trump, that is the US locking up political rivals too.

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Wookhooves t1_j292xv1 wrote

I’m saying the charges he’s claiming don’t seem to be true. It was the courts decision not to pursue charges at this time… the accusations don’t have substance behind them.

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TraditionalGap1 t1_j29nzg6 wrote

If that was true, the court would have dropped the case. Notice that it didn't.

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code_archeologist t1_j28ywbf wrote

TIL: Invaders and Collaborators == "political opponents"

Obviously La Résistance was being hyperbolic and reactionary by refusing to engage the Vichy government in peaceful political protests.

/s

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SuperstitiousPigeon5 t1_j2d6c8n wrote

They can, and probably are both.

Look at Trump, he’s a traitor and a political opponent, and he deserves to be in prison.

1