RedOrca-15483 t1_j7g943w wrote
high-tech? Most major systems run by competent organizations already have most of the features of the r211. the MTA is not bringing the future, they are just playing catch-up.
Slggyqo t1_j7ggcqt wrote
Ehhh…maybe if they’re relatively new, like in some Asian countries.
People like to tout the Paris metro as an example of mass transit expansion, but many Paris subway lines have trains with manually operated doors. Train advancements are not a priority there.
I’ve ridden the MTA, DC Metro, Paris subway, several Tokyo train lines, and the subway in Seoul, and the MTA measures up fine.
The main way the MTA falls short these days has more to do with our homelessness and mental illness crises than details of the subway.
Edit: Paris trains also don’t have AC.
ManhattanRailfan t1_j7gh7h4 wrote
And it's not like the MTA can do anything about homelessness. They can't build affordable housing or implement universal healthcare.
Slggyqo t1_j7ghr16 wrote
Exactly, it’s a symptom of a greater problem, not a failure of the MTA.
ctindel t1_j7gt7k8 wrote
We don’t need them to we just need them to keep the homeless people out of the train and stations.
AcrossAmerica t1_j7upkwl wrote
Hard and expensive problem to solve.
ctindel t1_j7urfcy wrote
It’s not that hard to solve and we already have the most expensive police force in the country, so yeah let’s just have them take care of it.
GnRgr2 t1_j7hdbml wrote
They absolutely can keep them out. If the police can search me without probable cause, there should be a hygiene and "dont disturb the peace" standard.
ikemr t1_j7gjmth wrote
This deserves all the likes
SnooSongs2714 t1_j7k4d14 wrote
The subways are NYC’s mobile homeless shelters/asylums.
Commotion t1_j7gndkd wrote
I was just in Paris, and multiple times, the metro train I was on was literally from the 1960s-1970s. And you could tell.
birthdaycakefig t1_j7kfsco wrote
How frequent did it run and how consistent was the service though? That’s all I care about.
Commotion t1_j7lihqk wrote
It was consistent and frequent, yes. Generally, better headways than I’ve experienced in New York - but both systems are huge so it’s hard to draw any conclusions based on my experience. I know at least some Paris metro lines do have more frequent service than some (all?) subway lines.
Paris metro was generally more disgusting than the subway, though, which was a surprise to me.
birthdaycakefig t1_j7lp77b wrote
Oh interesting on the cleanliness aspect. I don’t recall noticing that when I was there.
The biggest things I’ve noticed in Paris and London is how I never waited for a train more than 4-5 minutes at any time. In nyc I’m often waiting 10+ for some lines even before 11pm.
mrchumblie t1_j7gm83o wrote
Thank you. Everyone loves to shit on the MTA. While some of it is deserved, I think they do a pretty exceptional job for the most part. People don’t treat the stations or cars with respect because of other issues that are outside of the MTAs control.
SolutionRelative4586 t1_j7i6d6b wrote
Eh, I wouldn't say the MTA is "exceptional" for the most part. They drop the ball on really big, important things (and a lot of little but important things, like keeping the place clean).
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html
mrchumblie t1_j7i7szw wrote
Yeah I think I meant to say acceptable, not exceptional lol. Whoops
b1argg t1_j7gmyra wrote
I was recently in Singapore and their MRT made me want to cry.
Tatar_Kulchik t1_j7h0lff wrote
what happens to people who leave trash in the trains there?
ads3df3daf34 t1_j7hkx96 wrote
As a former SG resident, this questions make no sense in their culture.
b1argg t1_j7ht3a4 wrote
Yeah but durians
ads3df3daf34 t1_j7ihx6c wrote
When I first moved there I couldn't understand why every taxi had a no smoking and no spikey bomb sign on the window.
b1argg t1_j7iu49z wrote
Because it's Mario kart
JE163 t1_j7hc0ye wrote
The same thing that should happen here!
b1argg t1_j7ht1j1 wrote
IDK I didn't see any
BenHogan1971 t1_j7iw5s4 wrote
not to mention we have signal controllers from 1920
donttouchthirdrail t1_j7glsh1 wrote
There’s plenty of things to criticize about the MTA, but “not refreshing their entire fleet every decade” is not one of them
ThinVast t1_j7gnd5g wrote
high tech trains have charging stations, microled/oled glass windows, completely automated etc. which already are in use in some metro systems around the world. The fact that the windows are smaller in R211 because the doors are too big is a step back in technology. In modern trains, they easily overcome this problem by making doors slide out over the windows.
IIAOPSW t1_j7h1bqj wrote
Bro literally nothing will satisfy you. They don't buy new cars: "oh wow what losers we're soo far behind the rest of the world." They do buy new cars: "that's not the future, they're just playing catch up to the rest of the world." Pick a lane
Bradaigh t1_j7hl389 wrote
How about they buy new cars when they're actually new? There's literally plenty that would satisfy.
dman7456 t1_j7gggxy wrote
With whom are they playing catch up? I know Europe and Japan are way ahead of the US with transit, but are there other US systems that already have comparable trains?
carpy22 t1_j7glkfz wrote
We used to have them from the 1930s to 1960s. Visit the transit museum's triplex cars. This isn't new technology.
RedOrca-15483 t1_j7gqk3r wrote
Europe and East Asia
BerezanUnassisted514 t1_j7h8pda wrote
Where in Europe?
[deleted] t1_j7hdrje wrote
The Elizabeth Line in London feels 50 years ahead of anything we have in NYC. Stockholm's entire system is pretty great too, as is Copenhagen's fully-automated 24/7 metro
BerezanUnassisted514 t1_j7hkwbe wrote
Ok so a single literally just opened line in London. It is nice, pretty similar to the 2nd Ave line when just opened. That project is pretty great overall though, a crosstown express link like that would be amazing in NYC.
I’m not personally familiar with it, but as far as I can tell Copenhagen is a light rail system comprised of a total of 4 lines with less than 300k daily ridership. Not exactly comparable to NYC in any way.
Also not personally familiar with Stockholm, but it doesn’t look revolutionary as far as I can tell. It also serves 1/4 of the stations and 1/5 of the daily riders as the NYC subway. What makes it so good?
[deleted] t1_j7hp2ji wrote
Of course most European cities aren't operating a system on the scale of NYC's, since almost none of their cities are the same size. What's different is a series of almost night / day differences in quality of life, when using those systems.
The expectation here should be that we have stations as clean and functional as the ones in Stockholm or Copenhagen- i.e., working toward full accessibility, well-lit, floors not covered in decades of chewing gum, no puddles of urine or mysterious black gunk dripping from the ceiling, tolerable noise levels, no horrible odors almost everywhere, no poisonous diesel fumes from work trains, benches you don't dread sitting on, etc. Basically, conditions you'd expect in any normal public building (like a library).
I'm also aware that plenty of sub-par systems exist around Europe, and there's no point in lumping the whole continent together.
BenHogan1971 t1_j7iy7r3 wrote
this is why, when a previous commenter said that the MTA does a fairly good job, I (mostly) agree.
it's in large part that no other system in the world has to deal with asshole people like littering, graffitiing, cursing, spitting, eating, puking, defecating, pissing, smoking, injecting, vandalizing, mentally unstable, poor, homeless, rude, inconsiderate, 24/7, blase, New Yorkers
BerezanUnassisted514 t1_j7hq5kp wrote
This is not a transit issue, that is a societal issue.
[deleted] t1_j7i8f2u wrote
Keeping the system clean and comfortable to use is one of the MTA's basic responsibilities.
BerezanUnassisted514 t1_j7ic6qa wrote
And what is the main issue they face? Homelessness. Do transportation authorities elsewhere deal with anything remotely comparable?
[deleted] t1_j7kcowj wrote
No doubt it's a major issue, but it doesn't explain the state of neglect so much of the system is in. The message NYC is sending is that we've just given up on trying to improve things.
BerezanUnassisted514 t1_j7knov4 wrote
It almost entirely explains most of the issues you pointed to. The system has become filthy and unkept because it is a de facto homeless shelter. The safety concerns largely stem from the same issue.
There are maintenance items that could certainly be improved, but at what cost? Are we okay with weekend and overnight service being dramatically cut to allow for cosmetic maintenance? It’s much easier to polish stations when they’re closed every night.
I’m not giving the MTA a full pass, they waste money at an impressive rate, I just think it’s important to put some of these things into context. This is not Copenhagen, the issues faced are very different in many respects.
[deleted] t1_j7kqof0 wrote
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FavoriteChild t1_j7hwnod wrote
Why single out Europe? East Asia has everyone put to shame: Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong, Seoul, Tokyo, Taipei, etc.
Was just in Taipei last month and coming back to NYC was jarring. Their subways are impeccably timed, clean, well-lit, have cell-signal, etc. Just about every station has public restrooms that are well-maintained and don't smell of perpetual urine. They even have barricades to the track, which some people might have you believe is an impossible goal to have.
[deleted] t1_j7khh1r wrote
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railsonrails t1_j7h99mw wrote
Not the US, but both Toronto and Montréal have had open gangway trains for a while now
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