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An-Angel_Sent-By-God t1_j8kk7i7 wrote

Reply to comment by NetQuarterLatte in Mayor Adams ordered to pay $300 for rat infestation at Brooklyn home by hiegel

The statistic "$500 million lost to fare evasion" is an obvious lie. Go ahead and do the math if you like. $500 million divided by $2.75 divided by 472 stops divided by 365 days a year divided by 24 hours a day equals 44 people every single hour at every single stop in the entire system, on average. And by the way, if your "$500 million" figure was correct, that would prove that the NYPD are utterly useless at stopping fare evasion anywhere in the system. Hack.

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danhakimi t1_j8l332e wrote

You also have to argue that all 44 of those people would have paid full fare if they hadn't dodged it.

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cC2Panda t1_j8n1ijh wrote

Correct, same claim that the RIAA/MPAA claim against people who download music. Just because the fare didn't happen didn't mean it was inevitable.

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elizabeth-cooper t1_j8ksbrm wrote

What about buses?

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An-Angel_Sent-By-God t1_j8lgjnh wrote

Even if half of that claimed stat was from buses, that would still be an average of 1 person every 3 minutes at every single subway station, 24 hours a day.

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elizabeth-cooper t1_j8lmanw wrote

This article says half is about right.

https://nypost.com/2022/05/22/mta-losing-119m-and-counting-to-fare-evasion-officials-say/

But I don't know how you got to that number. There are over 16,000 bus stops. Also, I imagine the majority of fare beating happens in clusters during rush hour, not consistently throughout the day.

I don't know how the MTA got their number either, but I've seen the increase in fare beating with my own eyes, so it doesn't seem particularly outlandish. I presume you're working from home and haven't taken a bus or train during rush hour in three years.

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NetQuarterLatte t1_j8mt3se wrote

> Soaring fare evasion on subways and buses cost the MTA $119 million in the first three months of the year

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elizabeth-cooper t1_j8mvac8 wrote

Yes? And how did they arrive at that number? Nothing wrong with asking questions. There is something wrong with dismissing it out of hand, the way the person above did - "an obvious lie." No, it's not. It's clear that fare beating is way up compared to before Coronavirus.

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RyuNoKami t1_j8l75dj wrote

Don't those stats usually include buses?

The cops only enforce the fare when they feel like it so yes they are pretty useless.

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An-Angel_Sent-By-God t1_j8lgiqk wrote

Even if half of that claimed stat was from buses, that would still be an average of 1 person every 3 minutes at every single subway station, 24 hours a day.

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NetQuarterLatte t1_j8l8vac wrote

This week, for each time I paid the fare, I saw at least one person jumping the turnstile. And I was wondering where are the cops?

So I’m actually surprise it’s only $500 million.

Or maybe the stations I use are just very common to have fare evaders.

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An-Angel_Sent-By-God t1_j8lgn4v wrote

Do you see a fare evader every 90 seconds on average, 24 hours a day, at every single station? No. If you still can't understand the math, go stand on the Central Ave M platform tonight from 12am to 6am and do a count for me.

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NetQuarterLatte t1_j8lhxtq wrote

I only spent 30 seconds to a minute near the turnstile.

So one evader per 90s is probably a charitable estimate. It can’t be extrapolated to all the time though, because I was there it during rush hour.

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zed910 t1_j8ljxdf wrote

If it doesn’t happen during non peak times then it should happen more during peak times and you should see a fair evader closer to every 20 seconds at every station.

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NetQuarterLatte t1_j8lkrme wrote

I wasn’t in a very busy station. And it was just one person jumping the turnstile.

Not like the bulk evasion of people using the emergency door like in this video: https://youtu.be/gqRQ5_TiVA8

I’ve actually seen a person once (on his way out) purposely open and hold that kind of door just to see if anyone would want to come in for free. But I didn’t stick around to see if anyone took the opportunity.

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SwellandDecay t1_j8lzb8m wrote

what do you get out of acting like a cop? like why are you being a cop and you're not even getting paid? get a hobby.

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NetQuarterLatte t1_j8mn1pb wrote

I accidentally observed that happening. That’s money I and others will be paying though.

The MTA is going to increase the fare because of a $300 million per year budget short fall..

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zed910 t1_j8oo4rv wrote

The solution is to quit using our taxes to pay for roads and a all the free surface parking spots then fully funding the MTA without needing to charge fairs.

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NetQuarterLatte t1_j8ophr5 wrote

So let the roads degrade just because we can’t expect people (who can very well afford it) to pay their transit fares?

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zed910 t1_j8or0bd wrote

Not just degrade, but strip them away for green space, bike lanes, trash bins, and public plazas (all of which cost less to maintain and would be better used by the public). We can even sell some of the land to developers to build on, not only would we get money from the sale of land but reoccurring tax revenue.

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