“Correcting the housing crisis” is a long-term project. Even if there were the will to massively expand new housing in NYC, that wouldn’t be a substitute for the problem of severe mental illness among the homeless.

> the following circumstances could be reasonable indicia of an inability to support basic needs due to mental illness that poses harm to the individual: serious untreated physical injury, unawareness or delusional misapprehension of surroundings, or unawareness or delusional misapprehension of physical condition or health.

Gee, you think?

New York City Will Hospitalize More Mentally Ill People

iow: Republicans

There's a difference between mentally ill and plainly evil.

they're not mutually exclusive.

pay more attention

We were heading here eventually. Our country has enough trouble providing care for Medical issues, but is entirely incompetent for mental health issues. Since addressing mental health is something we’d never vote for, the “law and order” crowd will just institutionalize them and keep them out of the sight of voters who never valued constitutional rights in the first place.

🥱

How is there not a positive? Do the mentally I’ll people in the streets that we see day in and day out have the ability to make a rational decision to get help? Is the street a better option? Why does this lead to dem this rep that? Get over your politics and help these people!! Yeah the corner of Park and 34th is a much better option than inside with help that is needed. Makes sense.

As a former police officer, I say Yes. Many of these people need help but refuse to accept it. Many think their fine, you the problem. I worked in retail usually overnight and had many people come in who were homeless and most obviously needed help but would not get it. We could even tell when they stopped taking their meds. The law said nothing the police or even the doctors could do.

We can and should correct the housing crisis but I don't think it's a prerequisite to dealing with mental health issues. Why should we wait for a dangerous act to occur before preventing someone from hurting others and themselves?

"The right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins"

But apparently, that's not necessarily true, since swinging your fist in the air (at an imaginary target) might get one involuntarily committed..... despite no noses being hit

People are fearful.

I think this solution is bad as its "MOAR COPS!" but in slightly different clothing.

We dont wanna spend money providing housing to people for free--UNLESS that free housing is a prison, jail or mental institute.

If it is true that democracy entails risks, this feels like one we must accept.

Obvi that doesn't mean abandon these folks, but actually provide quality of care: all types, physical, mental and social.

If someone WANTS to duck their own life up--and only swing their fists in the air--why do I have ANY RIGHT to tell them they cant?

We should provide options for people who want them, but forcing someone to something, should be enacted very, very cautiously.

[removed]

"It's scary and crappy, so I'm trying to understand how forcing someone at some level to do something is permissible." All of us that are familiar with with abuses of the past or that have experienced/are familiar with mental illness might worry but this is for people who already lack autonomy and have medical conditions that make them a danger to themselves and others.

I'm sorry, but you guys really don't get it...nobody cares about you and your ADHD. You can manage your own care...this is for people that can't. Who can't function, who are relying on aging parents to care for them when they're increasingly old and feeble.

You should read this piece. This is who these political charges are for. I'd also advise you to google Andrew Goldstein.

https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/11/16/23461606/mental-health-treatment-housing-crime-violence

No offense, you seem naive. We can't house people that are employed and can (or used to) pay rent and can function in society, and no, housing is not enough for the population this initiative is aimed at. Some of them are housed - with family - and hurt their families, or destroy the homes they already reside in. Putting someone that's psychotic in an apartment they'll burn down or smear with shit when left to their own devices isn't a solution.

We need more long-term care facilities in general, not just for the dangerous - for the suicidal, for those in medical recovery that have lost mobility and brain functioning, for those that can't otherwise care for themselves due to something like brain injury. Or in your case, for people who are in the middle and can generally manage their care but might get to a point they need inpatient care for a period - voluntarily.

You've created a strawman. Your whole comment is based on a strawman.

This policy is for people who are literally hurting passerby or living in their own shit and self-medicating with recreational drugs that worsen their symptoms and increase the likelihood they will hurt someone. Or alternately, be murdered on the street.

They’re saying they’re crazy and sleeping on a sidewalk.

No idea how you think reducing rents by a few hundred dollars is the better solution to emptying public spaces of people immediately dangerous to themselves and others. Like it boggles my mind.

These folks have had autonomy throughout their addictions and mental illnesses. It has landed them in a terrible spot. A bed in a mental institution in the year 2022 is 1000x more humane it’s like I’m in the Twilight zone having to advocate for this and get treated like I’m pushing lobotomies or something.

Let’s say we did “vote for mental health”…what would you say is the first thing involved in treatment?

Might it be…removing them from the sidewalk and giving them medicine that could bring them back to reality?

concur. i've dealt with confused, cowering folks in withdrawal and it took an hour to convince them to ask for help. and the problem with many mental disorders is they don't accept it as abnormal - they will call it spiritual warfare,conspiracies, or personal preference.

This isn’t help, though. Psychiatric stays at hospitals stabilize the patient and then discharge them. It doesn’t actually give them a means to stay stable. What they need is a house with supportive programs to keep them clean and give them mental health care.

Leave it to a cop to never realize that not every problem requires a hammer.

But this isn’t a short term solution either. 50 additional beds isn’t going to cut it, and psych admissions to hopitals only stabilize the patient and then spit them back out. It doesn’t solve the problem of the individual not having a home and not receiving care for their condition.

Because the city’s “solution” isn’t actually one.

Sounds like it is a short term solution and that your criticism is that it isn’t a long term solution.

This will give the state greater privileges to keep people who are potentially dangerous out of prison and under safe surveillance.

This is not a mandate to involuntarily house homeless people. Your complaint that it's a "scary and crappy" situation doesn't mean that it's not scarier and crappier to have these people out on the street.

As far as investing more in mental health, that's a yes/and situation not a mutually exclusive solution.

So that's what I went through. I had a really bad reaction to a medication I was taking and stayed within 72 hrs. I was discharged and had an appointment with both my psychiatrist and psychologist. World outside of a hospital is much different than being monitored and taken care of buy the medical staff.

I do get that sometimes patients don't want to comply with medication (I've tried different ones and still can't seem to find the one that works for me), so I get that they would want to stop taking medication. However, it's not really productive if they are meandering around and aren't willing to getting help. Mental health is really tough :( This is all very tricky :(

That's what the PDF said in the article. That was my reaction too :/

Yeah I think the issue I'm facing is trying to understand how to connect the short term solution to the long term. Nothing in the article (nor PDF) indicated what the long term solution looks like. I'm not a resident of NYC, but is it safe to say that this has been an ongoing issue that continues to be unresolvable? I haven't done enough research to look at what previous mayors, governors, etc have done, but will have to look later.

Thank you for the link- I'll take a peek.

It’s not a short term solution because they haven’t actually been treated. Those drugs will wear off, and we’ll be back to square one. In what world would that be seen as a solution?

Sure, but my point is that “involuntary admission” is not actually gonna help people. You have the luxury of having insurance that covers both a psychiatrist and a psychologist. Homeless people don’t get that. Hence my saying. We need something more substantial and long-lasting than throwing them in a psych ward and pumping them full of anti-psychotics until they’re stable just to spit them back out onto the street.

The short term and long term solutions are the same. Build more supportive housing and halfway homes for the hospital system to send these people to.

You think there are no instances in which this will help people?

Hurting people is a crime.

We need no new laws to lock them up.

Because "pre-crime" is a fucking horrifying thought.

Start with social work and housing assistance, drug treatment, and trauma counseling so they can transition to readiness for work and independent living. Yes, some may be schizophrenic or have some other disorder that needs medication and an adherence plan so they stay on their meds—like the first things I listed. Adams wants to snatch them off the street and stick them in a locked ward so we don’t have to see them anymore. Many homeless are veterans, sent home without help from the same government that delights in spending trillions on weapons systems like the F-35 that are as dangerous to the pilot as they are to the enemy. Take some of that $600 million and spend it on veterans.

There are approximately 50,000-70,000 men, women, and children who are homeless in NYC right now. On average, 30% of homeless have a mental illness.

So there are approximately 60k * 0.30 = 18,000 homeless people in NYC with a mental illness.

The mental health problem in NYC is a reflection of our federal and state government's ability to properly provide basic care for the small minority of the population who need support. We need to find a way to motivate people to take their lives more seriously and provide support to those who cannot function.

You think this will? Do you not have a condition that needs medication?

[removed]

Thank god, lock these insane people up.

Lock ‘‘em up